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  #1  
Old Feb 11, '08, 8:51 am
tayloresque tayloresque is offline
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Default Book of Enoch

I was reading a Catholic Bible Commentary, and in it references the Book of Enoch. I look in the NAB, but couldn't find the Book of Enoch. Am I just missing it? Thanks so much!
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  #2  
Old Feb 11, '08, 9:07 am
Rbt Southwell Rbt Southwell is offline
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Default Re: Book of Enoch

Go to New Advent and look up the Book(s) of Enoch.

There were many and some of them contain elements of traditional (that is, Septuagint) OT books.

Robert
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  #3  
Old Feb 11, '08, 9:19 am
tayloresque tayloresque is offline
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Default Re: Book of Enoch

Thanks for your reply. You mean it's not just one book in the Bible but many books the comprise the Book of Enoch? If so, what books? I'm so confused.
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  #4  
Old Feb 11, '08, 11:24 am
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Default Re: Book of Enoch

From Catholic Encyclopedia:
Quote:
The Book of Henoch (Ethiopic)

The antediluvian patriarch Henoch according to Genesis "walked with God and was seen no more, because God took him". This walking with God was naturally understood to refer to special revelations made to the patriarch, and this, together with the mystery surrounding his departure from the world, made Henoch's name an apt one for the purposes of apocalyptic writers. In consequence there arose a literature attributed to him.

It influenced not only later Jewish apocrypha, but has left its imprint on the New Testament and the works of the early Fathers. The canonical Epistle of St. Jude, in verses 14, 15, explicitly quotes from the Book of Henoch; the citation is found in the Ethiopic version in verses 9 and 4 of the first chapter. There are probable traces of the Henoch literature in other portions of the New Testament.

Passing to the patristic writers, the Book of Henoch enjoyed a high esteem among them, mainly owing to the quotation in Jude. The so-called Epistle of Barnabas twice cites Henoch as Scripture. Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Origen, and even St. Augustine suppose the work to be a genuine one of the patriarch. But in the fourth century the Henoch writings lost credit and ceased to be quoted. After an allusion by an author of the beginning of the ninth century, they disappear from view.
So great was the oblivion into which they fell that only scanty fragments of Greek and Latin versions were preserved in the West. The complete text was thought to have perished when it was discovered in two Ethiopic manuscripts in Abyssinia, by the traveler Bruce in 1773. Since, several more copies in the same language have been brought to light. Recently a large Greek fragment comprising chapters i-xxxii was unearthed at Akhmîn in Egypt.
I think what Robert is saying is that the Book of Enoch is comprised of multiple books. This is in the same way that the Gospel of Matthew is actually 5 books, in addition to an introduction and an epilogue. The Book of Isaiah is comprised of The Book of Judgment (where Isaiah pronounces judgment on Israel) and the Book of Consolation (where Isaiah prophecies the Messianic period for Israel). In our Bible, these two books combine the Book that we know of as Isaiah.

It may be better to think of them as scene changes in a story.

But, as far as literature goes, there was simply one Book of Enoch.
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  #5  
Old Feb 11, '08, 11:27 am
Nita Nita is offline
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Default Re: Book of Enoch

Here's the newadvent link:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01602a.htm

I think the above article will answer your questions.
The work is evidently quite large, comprised of many chapters. The chapters were divided into "books".

The Book of Enoch is not part of the Bible.

Here is a site that contains the text:
http://www.exodus2006.com/ENOCH.HTM

I don't know about the reliability of the site; I just got it by googling
Book of Enoch text. It was just the first hit.

Nita
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  #6  
Old May 13, '10, 11:26 am
DMG888 DMG888 is offline
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Default Re: Book of Enoch



This book was not meant to be understood by previous generations, but was meant to be understood by our current generation which is the reason why this book has resurfaced. Now you can hear & read what other generations never understood.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UHK2Tfqe4Q
http://store.payloadz.com/details/79...udio-Book.html
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  #7  
Old May 13, '10, 12:37 pm
Jehuty X Jehuty X is offline
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Default Re: Book of Enoch

// the book of enoch is not in any catholic bible...

// i wonder if anyone knows if there is a printed edition, in greek or hebrew, available???
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  #8  
Old May 13, '10, 2:25 pm
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Default Re: Book of Enoch

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Originally Posted by DMG888 View Post

This book was not meant to be understood by previous generations, but was meant to be understood by our current generation which is the reason why this book has resurfaced. Now you can hear & read what other generations never understood.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UHK2Tfqe4Q
http://store.payloadz.com/details/79...udio-Book.html
First of all, I'm not buying that excuse.about previous and future generations.

Second of all, is that Gandalf?
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  #9  
Old May 13, '10, 3:43 pm
DMG888 DMG888 is offline
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Default Re: Book of Enoch

We first learn of Enoch in Genesis 5 but it leaves us with questions. Hebrews 11 has the answers and Jude quotes Enoch! How did Jude come to know the words of Enoch? They are not in the Bible. The answer of course, is The Book of Enoch. A book which is actually quoted not only by Jude, but also James the natural brother of Jesus. The quote in (Jude 14-15) & (1 Enoch 1:9) is as follows: "In the seventh (generation) from Adam Enoch also prophesied these things, saying: 'Behold, the Lord came with his holy myriads, to execute judgment on all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners spoke against him'." What is the Book of Enoch and where did it come from?

Enoch was the grandfather of Noah. The Book of Enoch chapter 68:1 "And after that my grandfather Enoch gave me all the secrets in the book and in the parables which had been given to him, and he put them together for me in the words of the book of the parables." This makes it possible for the Book to have survived the flood as its not too hard to accept that Noah would have taken his Great Grandfathers writings with him onto the ark.

The Book of Enoch was extant centuries before the birth of Christ and yet is considered by many to be more Christian in its theology than Jewish. It was considered scripture by many early Christians. The earliest literature of the so-called "Church Fathers" is filled with references to this mysterious book. The early second century "Epistle of Barnabus" makes much use of the Book of Enoch. Second and Third Century "Church Fathers" like Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Origin and Clement of Alexandria all make use of the Book of Enoch. Tertullian (160-230 C.E) even called the Book of Enoch "Holy Scripture". The Ethiopic Church even added the Book of Enoch to its official canon. It was widely known and read the first three centuries after Christ. This and many other books became discredited after the Council of Laodicea. And being under ban of the authorities, afterwards it gradually passed out of circulation.

At about the time of the Protestant Reformation, there came to be a renewed interest in the Book of Enoch which had long since been lost to the modern world. By the late 1400's rumors began to spread that somewhere a copy of the long lost Book of Enoch might still exist. During this time many books arose claiming to be the long lost book and were later found to be forgeries. The return of the long lost Book of Enoch to the modern western world is credited to the famous explorer James Bruce, who in 1773 returned from six years in Abyssinia with three Ethiopic copies of the lost book. In 1821 Richard Laurence published the first English translation. The famous R.H. Charles edition was published in 1912. In the following years several portions of the Greek text surfaced. Then with the discovery of cave 4 of the Dead Sea Scrolls, seven fragmentary copies of the Aramaic text were discovered. The Book of Enoch is divided into five basic parts, but it is the The Book of Parables (37-71) which gives scholars the most trouble for it is primarily concerned with a figure called "the messiah"; "the righteous one"; "the chosen one" and "the son of man."
Chapter 46:1-2 [1] There I beheld the Ancient of days whose head was like white wool, and with him another, whose countenance resembled that of a man. His countenance was full of grace, like that of one of the holy angels. Then I inquired of one of the angels, who went with me, and who showed me every secret thing, concerning this Son of man; who he was; whence he was; and why he accompanied the Ancient of days. [2] He answered and said to me, This is the Son of man, to whom righteousness belongs; with whom righteousness has dwealt; and who will reveal all the treasures of that which is concealed: for the Lord of spirits has chosen him; and his portion has surpassed all before the Lord of spirits in everlasting uprightness." The opening verses of the Book of Enoch tell us that the revelations in this book were not meant for Enoch's generation, rather a remote generation, and of course the book would make more sense to the generations after Christ. We know that the early Church made use of the Book of Enoch, but it was then all but lost, until recent times. Perhaps this book was meant for our generation, as it is widely available today after being concealed for over a millennia. (Enoch 1:1-3) The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed. And he took up his parable and said -Enoch a righteous man, whose eyes were opened by God, saw the vision of the Holy One in the heavens, which the angels showed me, and from them I heard everything, and from them I understood as I saw, but not for this generation, but for a remote one which is for to come.

http://thetruthandlight.wordpress.com/
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  #10  
Old May 13, '10, 4:20 pm
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NotWorthy NotWorthy is offline
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Default Re: Book of Enoch

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMG888 View Post
We first learn of Enoch in Genesis 5 but it leaves us with questions. Hebrews 11 has the answers and Jude quotes Enoch! How did Jude come to know the words of Enoch? They are not in the Bible. The answer of course, is The Book of Enoch. A book which is actually quoted not only by Jude, but also James the natural brother of Jesus. The quote in (Jude 14-15) & (1 Enoch 1:9) is as follows: "In the seventh (generation) from Adam Enoch also prophesied these things, saying: 'Behold, the Lord came with his holy myriads, to execute judgment on all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners spoke against him'." What is the Book of Enoch and where did it come from?

Enoch was the grandfather of Noah. The Book of Enoch chapter 68:1 "And after that my grandfather Enoch gave me all the secrets in the book and in the parables which had been given to him, and he put them together for me in the words of the book of the parables." This makes it possible for the Book to have survived the flood as its not too hard to accept that Noah would have taken his Great Grandfathers writings with him onto the ark.

The Book of Enoch was extant centuries before the birth of Christ and yet is considered by many to be more Christian in its theology than Jewish. It was considered scripture by many early Christians. The earliest literature of the so-called "Church Fathers" is filled with references to this mysterious book. The early second century "Epistle of Barnabus" makes much use of the Book of Enoch. Second and Third Century "Church Fathers" like Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Origin and Clement of Alexandria all make use of the Book of Enoch. Tertullian (160-230 C.E) even called the Book of Enoch "Holy Scripture". The Ethiopic Church even added the Book of Enoch to its official canon. It was widely known and read the first three centuries after Christ. This and many other books became discredited after the Council of Laodicea. And being under ban of the authorities, afterwards it gradually passed out of circulation.

At about the time of the Protestant Reformation, there came to be a renewed interest in the Book of Enoch which had long since been lost to the modern world. By the late 1400's rumors began to spread that somewhere a copy of the long lost Book of Enoch might still exist. During this time many books arose claiming to be the long lost book and were later found to be forgeries. The return of the long lost Book of Enoch to the modern western world is credited to the famous explorer James Bruce, who in 1773 returned from six years in Abyssinia with three Ethiopic copies of the lost book. In 1821 Richard Laurence published the first English translation. The famous R.H. Charles edition was published in 1912. In the following years several portions of the Greek text surfaced. Then with the discovery of cave 4 of the Dead Sea Scrolls, seven fragmentary copies of the Aramaic text were discovered. The Book of Enoch is divided into five basic parts, but it is the The Book of Parables (37-71) which gives scholars the most trouble for it is primarily concerned with a figure called "the messiah"; "the righteous one"; "the chosen one" and "the son of man."
Chapter 46:1-2 [1] There I beheld the Ancient of days whose head was like white wool, and with him another, whose countenance resembled that of a man. His countenance was full of grace, like that of one of the holy angels. Then I inquired of one of the angels, who went with me, and who showed me every secret thing, concerning this Son of man; who he was; whence he was; and why he accompanied the Ancient of days. [2] He answered and said to me, This is the Son of man, to whom righteousness belongs; with whom righteousness has dwealt; and who will reveal all the treasures of that which is concealed: for the Lord of spirits has chosen him; and his portion has surpassed all before the Lord of spirits in everlasting uprightness." The opening verses of the Book of Enoch tell us that the revelations in this book were not meant for Enoch's generation, rather a remote generation, and of course the book would make more sense to the generations after Christ. We know that the early Church made use of the Book of Enoch, but it was then all but lost, until recent times. Perhaps this book was meant for our generation, as it is widely available today after being concealed for over a millennia. (Enoch 1:1-3) The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed. And he took up his parable and said -Enoch a righteous man, whose eyes were opened by God, saw the vision of the Holy One in the heavens, which the angels showed me, and from them I heard everything, and from them I understood as I saw, but not for this generation, but for a remote one which is for to come.

http://thetruthandlight.wordpress.com/
Can I ask you two questions?

What does "The so-called Church Fathers" mean?
Where do you get that James was the "natural brother" of Jesus?

I guess this is going to make 3 questions, but you do realize that the Book of Enoch was written by Palestinian Jews in the 3rd century BC (give or take a century)?
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  #11  
Old May 13, '10, 5:28 pm
DMG888 DMG888 is offline
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Default Re: Book of Enoch

James was the son of Mary & Joseph, that makes him half brother of Jesus.

The book of Enoch existed prior to the flood. Like I said, Enoch was Noah's grandfather & the bible says that Enoch walked with God.

Not only he walked with God, Enoch lived to be 365 years old before God literally took him, having being a righteous man.

Now, having said that, it would be ridiculous to think that a man who the bible calls righteous & who the bible also tells us "walked with God", would lived 365 years & not write a single thing about God.

Now, let's not confuse the authentic book of Enoch rediscovered within the dead sea scrolls, with other false mythological Enoch books out there.

What's so fascinating about the book of Enoch is that it confirms the bible & also lines up with the book of Revelation.

I'm not taking the words of other people, I actually read the book of Enoch as well as the entire bible, so I can vouch for what I'm talking about.

THE WATCHERS: Fallen angels, Dinosaurs, & UFOs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5aOP-azKzs
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  #12  
Old May 13, '10, 6:10 pm
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Default Re: Book of Enoch

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Originally Posted by DMG888 View Post
James was the son of Mary & Joseph, that makes him half brother of Jesus.
Where does it say that in Scripture or in early Christian Tradition?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMG888 View Post
(1)The book of Enoch existed prior to the flood. Like I said, (2) Enoch was Noah's grandfather & (3) the bible says that Enoch walked with God.
I understand that (2) and (3) are correct. There is no question there. But where do you get that the Book of Enoch existed prior to the flood. There is absolutely no proof of that, that I've heard of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMG888 View Post
Not only he walked with God, Enoch lived to be 365 years old before God literally took him, having being a righteous man.

Now, having said that, it would be ridiculous to think that a man who the bible calls righteous & who the bible also tells us "walked with God", would lived 365 years & not write a single thing about God.
This is a straw-man argument. What language did our good Enoch write in?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMG888 View Post
Now, let's not confuse the authentic book of Enoch rediscovered within the dead sea scrolls, with other false mythological Enoch books out there.

What's so fascinating about the book of Enoch is that it confirms the bible & also lines up with the book of Revelation.

I'm not taking the words of other people, I actually read the book of Enoch as well as the entire bible, so I can vouch for what I'm talking about.

THE WATCHERS: Fallen angels, Dinosaurs, & UFOs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5aOP-azKzs
But you can vouch only that you read a book called "The Book of Enoch". Nothing else in your claim is tangible, except for that which was irrelevant (such as Enoch walked with God) and does nothing to prove your thesis.

Again, what did you mean by "the so-called Early Church Fathers"?
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  #13  
Old May 13, '10, 6:48 pm
Bible Reader Bible Reader is offline
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Default Re: Book of Enoch

NotWorthy --

I'm not going to take a position in this fight. But the usual Biblical citations for James as the brother of Jesus are Gal 1:19 ("but I did not see any other apostle except James the Lord’s brother") and Mark 6:3 (=Matt 13:55) ("is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon, and are not his sisters here with us?”).

The question is how to interpret this. There are three major approaches. From the Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary:

Quote:
(1) Some hold, following the most normal interpretation of the NT language, that James was a son of Joseph and Mary, evidently born after Jesus. (2) Others, with reference to various apocryphal sources, maintain that James was an older foster brother of Jesus, i.e., a son of Joseph by a previous marriage. This view has been held by many Protestants and is favored by the Greek Orthodox and other Eastern churches. (3) A third interpretation theorizes that James and Jesus as brothers were, according to Semitic idiom, cousins. This third approach concludes that since James is called an apostle (Gal 1:19), he was in fact James the son of Alphaeus (Mark 3:18), also known as James “the Younger” (Mark 15:40), the brother of Joses. The mother of James and Joses, named Mary in Mark 15:40 and Matt 27:56, is taken to be identical with Mary the wife of Clopas (equated with Alphaeus), the sister of Jesus’ mother, referred to in John 19:25. By this reasoning Jesus and James would have been first cousins. While this has been the preferred Roman Catholic explanation, the German Catholic exegete Pesch (Markusevangelium I HTKNT, 322–24) has affirmed the validity of the first approach, thus stimulating renewed debate among Catholics (see Rahner 1983: 218–31).
I'm not take a pony in this fight. If you'd like to see more detailed discussions of the debate within Catholic theological circles between Tilman Pesch, S.J. and the traditional view (and don't read German), the book of Karl Rahner, S.J., Theological Investigations, volume 19, has been translated into English.
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Old May 13, '10, 7:08 pm
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Default Re: Book of Enoch

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NotWorthy --

I'm not going to take a position in this fight. But the usual Biblical citations for James as the brother of Jesus are Gal 1:19 ("but I did not see any other apostle except James the Lord’s brother") and Mark 6:3 (=Matt 13:55) ("is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon, and are not his sisters here with us?”).

The question is how to interpret this. There are three major approaches. From the Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary:

I'm not take a pony in this fight. If you'd like to see more detailed discussions of the debate within Catholic theological circles between Tilman Pesch, S.J. and the traditional view (and don't read German), the book of Karl Rahner, S.J., Theological Investigations, volume 19, has been translated into English.
Yes, as you well know, James' relationship with Jesus has nothing to do with the thread.

But, our good DMG stated that James was the natural brother of Jesus. I would ask why Mary is never mentioned as "the mother of Jesus AND JAMES".
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Old May 13, '10, 9:23 pm
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Default Re: Book of Enoch

Some readers will recall that in the early days of the Church, about 44 C.E., King Herod Agrippa killed the apostle James, the son of Zebedee and one of the original 12 (see Acts 12:1–2). Thus it must be another James to whom Luke refers in verse 17 of the same chapter, where he records that Peter sent news of his release from prison to someone named James. Though as many as seven different people by the same name have been identified in the New Testament, it is James the brother of Jesus (Galatians 1:19) who is the most likely in this case. As we have just seen, Jesus’ brothers were present with the apostles in Jerusalem as the Church began after Jesus’ departure (Acts 1:14). This same James appears later in Acts as the leader of the church at Jerusalem, so it’s reasonable to suggest that he is the author of the New Testament book by that name.

As leader in Jerusalem, James spoke with authority to end an internal Church controversy over the circumcision of gentile believers (Acts 15:13–19; see also 21:18). And according to the first-century Jewish historian Josephus, the Jewish religious hierarchy put to death by stoning “the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James” (Antiquities of the Jews 20.200). This would have been around 62 C.E.

But was this James also an apostle? While he is never named directly as such in the New Testament, the argument has been made that his family relationship to Jesus accorded him a unique role. Paul, who himself became an apostle but was not of the 12, seems to indicate James’s apostolic function when writing about one of his visits to Jerusalem. He says, “I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord’s brother” (Galatians 1:19, English Standard Version throughout). But scholars have suggested that this is not an unequivocal statement. An alternate translation says, “Other than the apostles I saw no one except James, the Lord’s brother.”

What more can we know of James and his earlier life from the Gospel accounts? Mark and Matthew indicate that he was one of several children born to Mary and Joseph after Jesus’ birth. Mark records an incident in Jesus’ ministry where his fellow townsmen derided Him as merely a local: “‘Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us?’ And they took offense at him” (Mark 6:3; see also Matthew 13:55–56).

There was a time when James and the rest of the family were opposed to Jesus’ ministry and teaching. At one point, they actually thought Him mad (Mark 3:21). John tells us that “not even his brothers believed in him” (John 7:5).

By the opening of the book of Acts, however, James had become one of the disciples. But even though he was Jesus’ brother, he did not take up the vacancy caused by Judas’s death, because the remaining 11 were to choose as a witness to Jesus’ resurrection “one of the men who ha[d] accompanied [them] during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among [them]” (Acts 1:21). James soon became the leader of the Jerusalem church, as demonstrated by the fact that Paul met with him and the apostle Peter (also called Cephas) when he first went to Jerusalem after his conversion (Galatians 1:18–19). He met James on another occasion when he brought famine relief to Jerusalem from the churches outside Judea (Acts 21:18).

The fact that James was leader in Jerusalem is attested by such extrabiblical sources as the second-century historian Hegesippus. He wrote that following James’s death, the Church chose another of Jesus’ blood relatives, His cousin Simon or Simeon, to be leader—thus implying that up to that time James had held the post. According to Eusebius, another reference is found in the (now lost) writings of Clement of Alexandria (ca. 153–217 C.E.), who says that Peter and John chose James for his office (Books of the Hypotyposes 6). And writing in 492, Jerome says that James “ruled the church of Jerusalem thirty years, that is until the seventh year of Nero” (Lives of Illustrious Men, chapter 2).
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