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  #1  
Old Feb 21, '08, 9:41 pm
Vittorio23 Vittorio23 is offline
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Default Purification of the chalice

Does the purification of the sacred vessels have to take place on the altar? Or can it be done in the sacristy after Mass?
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  #2  
Old Feb 21, '08, 9:58 pm
Br. Rich SFO Br. Rich SFO is offline
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Default Re: Purification of the chalice

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Originally Posted by Vittorio23 View Post
Does the purification of the sacred vessels have to take place on the altar? Or can it be done in the sacristy after Mass?
I believe either at the altar or at the credence table and only by a priest or deacon.
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  #3  
Old Feb 21, '08, 11:23 pm
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Default Re: Purification of the chalice

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Originally Posted by Vittorio23 View Post
Does the purification of the sacred vessels have to take place on the altar? Or can it be done in the sacristy after Mass?
They can be purified on the altar, credence table or after Mass in the sacristy but only by the priest, the deacon or an instituted acolyte. Never by a EMHC.
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  #4  
Old Feb 22, '08, 3:39 am
John Lilburne John Lilburne is offline
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Default Re: Purification of the chalice

The ritual purification is done by the deacon, instituted acolyte or priest (in that order, if present). It can be during or immediately after Mass.

The credence table is preferred (GIRM n. 279). But by a priest it may be done at the altar or credence table. By a deacon or instituted acolyte only the credence table is mentioned.

After the ritual purification, after Mass, there can be cleaning and polishing of the chalice. This would normally be done by the sacristan in the sacristy.

From the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) approved for the USA, which can be accessed from http://www.romanrite.com/girm.html :

"183. When the distribution of Communion is completed, the deacon returns to the altar with the priest and collects the fragments, if any remain, and then carries the chalice and other sacred vessels to the credence table, where he purifies them and arranges them in the usual way while the priest returns to the chair. It is also permissible to leave the vessels that need to be purified, suitably covered, at the credence table on a corporal and to purify them immediately after Mass following the dismissal of the people."

"192. Likewise, when the distribution of Communion is completed, a duly instituted acolyte helps the priest or deacon to purify and arrange the sacred vessels. When no deacon is present, a duly instituted acolyte carries the sacred vessels to the credence table and there purifies, wipes, and arranges them in the usual way."

From n. 163 (Mass without a deacon):
"Upon returning to the altar, the priest collects any fragments that may remain. Then, standing at the altar or at the credence table, he purifies the paten or ciborium over the chalice then purifies the chalice, saying quietly, Quod ore sumpsimus (Lord, may I receive), and dries the chalice with a purificator. If the vessels are purified at the altar, they are carried to the credence table by a minister. Nevertheless, it is also permitted, especially if there are several vessels to be purified, to leave them suitably covered on a corporal, either at the altar or at the credence table, and to purify them immediately after Mass following the dismissal of the people."

"279. The sacred vessels are purified by the priest, the deacon, or an instituted acolyte after Communion or after Mass, insofar as possible at the credence table. ...".
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  #5  
Old Feb 22, '08, 7:10 am
love4mary love4mary is offline
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Default Re: Purification of the chalice

At my parish, the Sacristans purify the chalices. I am a sacristan and do this every Suday.
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  #6  
Old Feb 22, '08, 7:17 am
Phemie Phemie is offline
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Default Re: Purification of the chalice

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Originally Posted by love4mary View Post
At my parish, the Sacristans purify the chalices. I am a sacristan and do this every Suday.
You purify them? That's against the GIRM and Redemptionis Sacramentum.

EMHCs purify them in my parish. The pastor had been doing it after Redemptionis Sacramentum was released but when a new pastor came he refused to do so, saying, "We haven't implemented that document in our diocese yet."
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Old Feb 22, '08, 7:20 am
Seatuck Seatuck is offline
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Default Re: Purification of the chalice

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Originally Posted by love4mary View Post
At my parish, the Sacristans purify the chalices. I am a sacristan and do this every Suday.

Do you mean purify which is the ritual cleansing of the remnants of the Holy Communion or do you mean wash after that has been done?

Purification must be done by the Priest or Deacon.No Lay people.
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  #8  
Old Feb 22, '08, 7:21 am
Seatuck Seatuck is offline
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Default Re: Purification of the chalice

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Originally Posted by Phemie View Post
You purify them? That's against the GIRM and Redemptionis Sacramentum.

EMHCs purify them in my parish. The pastor had been doing it after Redemptionis Sacramentum was released but when a new pastor came he refused to do so, saying, "We haven't implemented that document in our diocese yet."

Even with the more recent document? Wow , disobedience runs strong in this one.
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  #9  
Old Feb 22, '08, 7:36 am
japhy japhy is offline
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Default Re: Purification of the chalice

The permission for persons other than bishops, priests, deacons, or instituted acolytes to purify the sacred vessels, in the US, existed from 2002 to 2005, but the indult for such a practice was expired back in 2005 not was renewed.
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  #10  
Old Feb 22, '08, 8:26 am
Br. Rich SFO Br. Rich SFO is offline
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Default Re: Purification of the chalice

Quote:
Originally Posted by love4mary View Post
At my parish, the Sacristans purify the chalices. I am a sacristan and do this every Suday.
You should not be unless you are an Instituted Acolyte or Deacon.
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  #11  
Old Feb 22, '08, 8:33 am
Vittorio23 Vittorio23 is offline
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Default Re: Purification of the chalice

Okay-- thanks for those answers. Now for a follow up question:

What is a credence table?

And I suppose just for the "what ifs":

There's one priest here that does not purify until after Mass, in the Sacristy, and he does not consume what is left in the chalice, but rather rinses it down the drain. My fear, as sacristan, is that one day he may leave before doing anything with the chalice-- so I always make sure to get that in right away, before he has the chance to leave. I leave it on the counter while I continue to clean-up, just to make sure he does purify it. What ought I do, if on day, he does not purify the chalice and leaves before that is done?
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  #12  
Old Feb 22, '08, 9:44 am
Br. Rich SFO Br. Rich SFO is offline
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Default Re: Purification of the chalice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vittorio23 View Post
Okay-- thanks for those answers. Now for a follow up question:

What is a credence table?

And I suppose just for the "what ifs":

There's one priest here that does not purify until after Mass, in the Sacristy, and he does not consume what is left in the chalice, but rather rinses it down the drain. My fear, as sacristan, is that one day he may leave before doing anything with the chalice-- so I always make sure to get that in right away, before he has the chance to leave. I leave it on the counter while I continue to clean-up, just to make sure he does purify it. What ought I do, if on day, he does not purify the chalice and leaves before that is done?
You can do what I did once. While attending a special Mass celebrated by the Bishop. The chalices were left with a small amount of the Precious Blood in them in a side table. I sat down next to the table. An hour later the Bishop walked by and asked why I was sitting there. I explained that no one had purified the chalices and the Blessed Sacrament remained in them. The look on his face when he zipped off to find the priest he had told to purify them was not very happy. Nor was the priest when he returned about 10 minutes later with the Bishop right behind him. Later the Bishop thanked me for protecting the Blessed Sacrament. If this pastor will not assume his responsibilities the situation must be made known to the Bishop.
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  #13  
Old Feb 22, '08, 9:58 am
japhy japhy is offline
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Default Re: Purification of the chalice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vittorio23 View Post
What is a credence table?
That the same table at the side of (or just outside of) the sanctuary where the items to be placed on the altar stay until needed, and where the items are placed after Communion is done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vittorio23 View Post
There's one priest here that does not purify until after Mass, in the Sacristy, and he does not consume what is left in the chalice, but rather rinses it down the drain. My fear, as sacristan, is that one day he may leave before doing anything with the chalice-- so I always make sure to get that in right away, before he has the chance to leave. I leave it on the counter while I continue to clean-up, just to make sure he does purify it. What ought I do, if on day, he does not purify the chalice and leaves before that is done?
I have purified the vessels just once, although I had no permission to do so; however, I did so to avoid the desecration of the Most Blessed Sacrament. I had been in the sacristy the day before (after morning Mass) and witness an EMHC pour the remains of the Precious Blood down the sink -- not even the sacrarium, but that's not proper either -- after saying that she knew "how to do this part". So the next day (after morning Mass) I went into the sacristy to purify the sacred vessels properly.

Our parish has one priest, and he doesn't (ever, that I've seen) purify the sacred vessels. I don't know why, since it doesn't take more than a couple minutes, it is a very pious and reverent act, and it's his duty.
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  #14  
Old Feb 22, '08, 11:57 am
WavyGravy WavyGravy is offline
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Default Re: Purification of the chalice

I am of the opinion that the sacred vessels should be purified on the altar for everyone to see. We use 5 chalices and 4 ciboria at each Sunday Mass. With practice and with the help of a server (pouring water and moving purified vessels) all 9 vessels could be reverently purified in 3 minutes. Letting the faithful in the pews see that would mean a great deal.

If they cannot afford those 3 minutes/Mass then it's squarely on them.

As it is, only faithful purify the vessels at my parish even with the Pope's latest directions.
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Old Feb 22, '08, 1:22 pm
John Lilburne John Lilburne is offline
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Default Re: Purification of the chalice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vittorio23 View Post
Okay-- thanks for those answers. Now for a follow up question:

What is a credence table?

And I suppose just for the "what ifs":

There's one priest here that does not purify until after Mass, in the Sacristy, and he does not consume what is left in the chalice, but rather rinses it down the drain. My fear, as sacristan, is that one day he may leave before doing anything with the chalice-- so I always make sure to get that in right away, before he has the chance to leave. I leave it on the counter while I continue to clean-up, just to make sure he does purify it. What ought I do, if on day, he does not purify the chalice and leaves before that is done?
A credence table is not the altar. It is a separate table, normally smaller than the altar.

Japhy wrote in post #13 that it could be just outside the sanctuary. But this is wrong, it must be in the sanctuary. From the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) approved for the USA, which can be accessed from http://www.romanrite.com/girm.html :
"207. In the sanctuary there should be prepared
a. Seats and texts for the concelebrating priests;
b. On the credence table: a chalice of sufficient size or else several chalices."

The sanctuary is described in the GIRM, n. 295. It is marked off from the body of the church and it is easily seen. So the sacristy is not in the sanctuary.

The Precious Blood is consumed during Mass, for example, Mass Without a Deacon: "163. When the distribution of Communion is finished, the priest himself immediately and completely consumes at the altar any consecrated wine that happens to remain;" But drops will remain, until the purification is done.

If anyone pours the Precious Blood down the drain it is very serious. From the 2004 Instruction Redemptionis Sacramentum:
"[107.] In accordance with what is laid down by the canons, “one who throws away the consecrated species or takes them away or keeps them for a sacrilegious purpose, incurs a latae sententiae excommunication reserved to the Apostolic See; a cleric, moreover, may be punished by another penalty, not excluding dismissal from the clerical state”.[footnote 194: Cf. Code of Canon Law, can. 1367.] To be regarded as pertaining to this case is any action that is voluntarily and gravely disrespectful of the sacred species. Anyone, therefore, who acts contrary to these norms, for example casting the sacred species into the sacrarium or in an unworthy place or on the ground, incurs the penalties laid down.[footnote 195: Cf. Pontifical Council for the Interpretation of Legislative Texts, Response to dubium, 3 July 1999: AAS 91 (1999) p. 918.]"

If the priest is first adding enough water then he can argue that it is not the Precious Blood. With the dilution it stops being the Precious Blood. But it is still wrong, for these reasons:
- Giving a bad example that may result in someone else pouring the Precious Blood down the drain.
- Not following the liturgical books, by not consuming the water and wine in the purification, GIRM n. 279: "The purification of the chalice is done with water alone or with wine and water, which is then drunk by whoever does the purification."
- Not following the liturgical books, by not doing the purification in the sanctuary, where people can see this.

So try to correct this, before it gets to situation of the Precious Blood being left in the sacristy.
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