Disturbing News on TLM

[HOPEFUL_IN_UK]

Originally Posted by bkovacs

Followup

"Do you really need five Sunday Ordinary Form Masses. Can't you make at
least one of them a Tridentine Mass (Extra Ordinary Form) in the future.
I understand that you may not be able to understand Latin or that you
refuse to offer the Extra Ordinary form of the Holy Mass. But the
younger seminarians are. Ever since I seen the beauty of the Tridentine
Mass, I now feel that most of the beauty of the Catholic liturgical
tradition had been stripped away from my generation. Your generation may
not yearn for it. But allot of younger Roman Catholics who have been to
one love it. Here is a good website to learn how it is progressing
today.
http://thenewliturgicalmovement.blogspot.com/

Do you even talk about it to your parishioners?"

Reply is in my first post.

I could tell from the tone of his reply (in your OP) that you'd offended him. When I saw your email to him, I could see why.

You spoke to this priest as if he were an uninformed numpty.

[ProVobis]

"Canon Law requires seminarians to be taught Latin."

So isn't it disobedient for seminarians not to study Latin?

[surfinpure]

Originally Posted by cecilia97

Couldn't help myself!

hahaha

[GerardP]

Originally Posted by bkovacs

I got an email back from a local pastor in my area in regards to implementing the Extra Ordinary Form at the local parish and asked if his parishiners knew about the TLM and if he would replace one of his 6 Sunday Masses with a TLM in the future. Here is his reply:

"Dear Bob,
Very briefly...yes, I do speak with my parishioners. I check in with
them on a variety of topics. By the way, I know Latin fairly well. I was
of the generation in the Seminary that was not only taught Latin but was
taught in Latin. In speaking with them, the overwhelming majority find it a
curiosity, much like having a Mass in Spanish or German or Pennsylvania
Dutch. As far as attending Mass regularly in Latin, no, that is not for
them. They have no interest whatsoever.
Yes, we need all six Masses in English. In fact, we preparing for a time
in the not so distant future when there will be even fewer priests available
for Mass and that may mandate a reduction in the number of Masses here. Our
church was built for that contingency. I doubt very much that there is any
interest in any other parish around here. As far as young seminarians,
there are less than 40 studying for Philadelphia. Not exactly overwhelming
numbers. They do not have much interest in any foreign language, let alone
Latin. They do learn conversational Spanish.
If there was a major need for a Tridentine Mass, yes, I would be
interested. But there has been none and I think I know my parishioners
fairly well. Take care and God bless.
Father Riegler"

I thought the seminaries were growing, and those in them were required to learn both forms of the Mass.

It's funny how this guy not only puts the kibbosh on any mass at his parish but he's got the hubris to try and speak for the entire archdiocese.

I personally know a number of Catholics in that general area that are waiting for the TLM and I even stirred some interest among Protestants that were fascinated with the idea of an ancient Catholic rite.

40 Seminarians in Philly? That's a good start. If every new seminarian is taught correctly that number will skyrocket. 50 SSPX priests in the entire U.S.A. manage to upset quite a few bishops. They seem to make a difference.


I wonder what else is Catholic that his parishioners are not interested in? Maybe they're not interested in going to mass "every" Sunday.

Are they interested in being preached to about what is and isn't a sin?

Are they interested in the dogma "No Salvation Outside the Church"

Are they interested in knowing they'll go to Hell for practicing contraception?

What hubris. Since when does the concupiscience of the congregation determine what they will or will not be taught?

There is something wrong with the job a pastor is doing when the people of the Latin rite of the Church have no interest in Latin or the rite in Latin. He's done a very bad job as pastor.

I'm tempted to drive out to this parish and record the mass to see just what is going on.

I'm betting this guy has bad-mouthed the Latin Mass to his parisioners in order to further his own agenda.

[Brennan Doherty]

Originally Posted by FrRJBoyd

With all due respect to the pastor, I have to disagree with him on several points. To be fair to the TLM, which has not been offered in most parishes for over 40 years, I think parishioners would need to be exposed to it and catechized on it, in order for some of them to express that they prefer the NO in English. One parish in NJ did just that... the pastor offered a six week seminar on the TLM for his parishioners, began offering the TLM regularly on a Sunday morning, and attracted about 1,000 people to the TLM! At the very least, your pastor is not correct regarding the state of the seminarians or St. Charles Borromeo Seiminary. Several of the seminarians studying for Philadelphia are interested in the TLM, and next Fall the seminary is offering a course in how to offer the TLM. Hang in there!

God bless,

Fr. Boyd

A great deal of common sense in this post. God bless you Father.

[Brennan Doherty]

Originally Posted by GerardP

Since when does the concupiscience of the congregation determine what they will or will not be taught?

So true. Good quote.

It's as if we should stop teaching classical music in the U.S. not because of its inherent worthiness or unworthiness, but because most people in the U.S. actually prefer Britney Spears and JLo.

[HOPEFUL_IN_UK]

Missing Mass on Sundays and using birth control are sins. Prefering the Novus Ordo Mass, or not being particularly interested in Latin Mass, is not a sin.

[HOPEFUL_IN_UK]

I thought I remember hearing that Blessed Fr. Solanus had trouble in seminary in Detroit because it was taught in German. Not because it was taught in Latin. Apparently, seminarians were not all taught in Latin back in the day.

[SemperFidelis]

Originally Posted by Eilish Maura

What happens if you have a choir capable of singing Gregorian chant and there is no call for it?

Easy.


You don't use the choir for that.

Since Mass seems to be about what the people want, what if 90% want Black Sabbath music at Mass and 10% want Gregorian Chant? Should we go with Black Sabbath? Shoot, if we're doing this with the liturgy, then we should do it with Dogma too! Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus is just too exclusive. We should be more inclusive, and no contraception just isn't realistic in today's society. I'm glad the selection of liturgical music has become a democracy now. There are a ton of Church documents which call for Gregorian Chant. It doesn't matter whether the people want it or not. The Church has consistently called for it. Nobody seems to be listening though. Very sad.

[holdencaulfield]

Originally Posted by puzzleannie

you asked this priest about very local conditions, his parish, the seminary serving his diocese, and he responded to your question, refering to local conditions. no reason to make any global assumptions based on his opinion or plans or outlook.

True.

[Eilish Maura]

Originally Posted by SemperFidelis

Since Mass seems to be about what the people want, what if 90% want Black Sabbath music at Mass and 10% want Gregorian Chant? Should we go with Black Sabbath? Shoot, if we're doing this with the liturgy, then we should do it with Dogma too! Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus is just too exclusive. We should be more inclusive, and no contraception just isn't realistic in today's society. I'm glad the selection of liturgical music has become a democracy now. There are a ton of Church documents which call for Gregorian Chant. It doesn't matter whether the people want it or not. The Church has consistently called for it. Nobody seems to be listening though. Very sad.

If Black Sabbath music is one of the acceptable alternatives?

Yes - then no big deal, use it.

No - again, no big deal, don't use it.


I spoke of ACCEPTABLE alternatives not popularity issues.

[SemperFidelis]

Originally Posted by Eilish Maura

Yes - then no big deal, use it.

Are you kidding?

No - again, no big deal, don't use it.

So I guess Sacred Music is just no big deal?

I spoke of ACCEPTABLE alternatives not popularity issues.

So a parish never using Gregorian Chant after the Vatican has consistently said that it must have a "pride of place" is an acceptable alterative to what the Church has said regarding Sacred Music?

[holdencaulfield]

I just sent an email to my Archdiocese, I hope to not have this same trouble. I suggest that you start a petition and send it to your Archbishop. I think that every city should at least have one Mass not overrun with Nuvos Ordo

[Eilish Maura]

Originally Posted by holdencaulfield

I just sent an email to my Archdiocese, I hope to not have this same trouble. I suggest that you start a petition and send it to your Archbishop. I think that every city should at least have one Mass not overrun with Nuvos Ordo

How can a diocese be 'overrun' with the ORDINARY FORM of the mass??

[Eilish Maura]

Originally Posted by SemperFidelis

So a parish never using Gregorian Chant after the Vatican has consistently said that it must have a "pride of place" is an acceptable alterative to what the Church has said regarding Sacred Music?

Where has the church defined 'pride of place' by a certain amount of usage?

If a parish works within the legitimate structure given by the HMC and never uses Gregorian Chant then there is NO PROBLEM.