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  #1  
Old Nov 14, '04, 10:47 am
jmm08 jmm08 is offline
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Arrow The Anglican Rosary -- and The Angelus [Anglican]

An Anglican had asked if it was OK for non-Catholics to pray the rosary. I did some research and found out that there is a beautiful Anglican Rosary.

See http://www.franciscan.org.au/anglicanrosary.html

Spiritually speaking, the Anglican rosary seems very beautiful to me. It has four groups of seven week beads separated by four cruciform beads. It has an invitatory bead between the cross and the first cruciform bead.

The web site gives instructions on how to pray The Angelus the the Anglican Rosary. If I understand -- it goes like this.
= = = = =
The Cross: Glory be to the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now and shall be forever. Amen.

The Invitatory Bead: We beseech you O Lord to pour your grace into our hearts, that as we have known the incarnation of your Son Jesus Christ by the message of an angel, so by His cross and passion we may be brought to the glory of His resurrection. Through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

1st cruciform bead: The angel of the Lord brought tidings to Mary; and she conceived by the Holy Spirit.

seven Hail Marys at the seven beads that represent the seven days of creation.

2nd cruciform bead: Behold the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.

seven Hail Marys at the seven beads that represent the seven days of the week.

3rd cruciform bead: The word was made flesh and dwelt among us.

seven Hail Marys at the seven beads that represent the seven seasons of the liturgical year.

4th cruciform bead: Pray for us O Holy mother of God that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.

seven Hail Marys at the seven beads that represent the seven sacraments of the Church.
= = = = =
The web site says the Anglican rosary is fairly new (1980's).

I think the Anglican Rosary is too good for Anglicans to keep to themselves.
  #2  
Old Nov 14, '04, 11:07 am
mean_owen mean_owen is offline
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Default Re: The Anglican Rosary -- and The Angelus [Anglican]

Jmm- I'm no strict devotee, but I've been praying with the Anglican rosary for a few years now (I'm Anglican/Episcopalian). One thing that I like about it is that it's intended to be used for different sorts of prayers (not that the standard Catholic rosary couldn't and hasn't been used for different prayers too). Thus, in addition to the one you posted, there is a penitential form (based on the Trisagion and Jesus prayer), a form for morning or evening prayer, and many others. Plus, on a strictly personal level, I prefer the "feel" of the Anglican rosary a bit over the Catholic one, but YMMV.
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  #3  
Old Nov 14, '04, 1:41 pm
GKC GKC is offline
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Default Re: The Anglican Rosary -- and The Angelus [Anglican]

And at my parish, the Angelus is sung at the end of every Mass.


GKC
  #4  
Old Nov 14, '04, 2:11 pm
twf twf is offline
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Default Re: The Anglican Rosary -- and The Angelus [Anglican]

Awesom! I wasn't aware of the fact that some Anglicans have a devotion to our Lady. Mean_Owen, could you explain this to me possibly? How many within the Anglican Communion pray to the saints and have an orthodox understanding of Mary's role?
  #5  
Old Nov 14, '04, 2:23 pm
StubbleSpark StubbleSpark is offline
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Lightbulb Re: The Anglican Rosary -- and The Angelus [Anglican]

The Catholic rosary has none other than the personal endorsement of the Blessed Virgin herself. It is based on the traditional liturgy of the hours (which you can also pray) which is one of the oldest devotionals in existence. History records that the rosary aided in the miraculous defense of the last vestiges of Western culture against Saracen conquest. Many more miracles have been attributed to its use and I can personally testify to miracles worked in my own life.

Why would anyone want to pray a scaled down version (only 7 Hail Marys between mysteries and fewer mysteries) that has no such illustrious history and divine endorsement?

And why would you look for a non-Catholic devotional to introduce to other non-Catholics?

Of course non-Catholics can pray the rosary. There is nothing that says you even have to be Christian to pray the rosary! This is the inherent beauty of this devotional meditative prayer -- our Mother just wants us to spend time with her -- and she will bring us closer to a more perfect conversion. Keep in mind that Catholic conversions are continual and not occurring at a single point in time. Even if you are born and raised a devout practicing Catholic, you still have a long way to go, but she will bring you there no matter where you start out.

I was praying the rosary regularly before I ever set foot in an RCIA class. My experience has convinced me that it is the best tool for conversion. I give them freely to anyone whether they are Baptist, Lutheran, Ba'hai, or Wiccan.

And the rosary is not the only meditative devotional prayer Catholics have. I already mentioned the Liturgy of the Hours above, but even the prayer bead devotionals are many. The Chaplet of Divine Mercy, the Crown of Twelve Stars of Our Lady of Mercy, etc.

The manner in which these devotionals are practiced are also numerous. You can say them alone in the dark of night, together with friends and family, in Eucharisic Adoration, you can even sing them!

As far as the shape of the beads are concerned, nothing is stopping you from making your own rosary. There are numerous web sites and hobby kits showing how to do this.

Effort is always appreciated but why try to reinvent the wheel when we have a souped-up super car complete with in-dash navigation?
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  #6  
Old Nov 14, '04, 3:23 pm
mean_owen mean_owen is offline
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Default Re: The Anglican Rosary -- and The Angelus [Anglican]

Twf: As far as Marian devotion in the Anglican Communion goes, with a few exceptions it pretty much pales in comparison to Roman Catholicism. There is a small but not insignificant number of Anglo-Catholics (scroll down in this Non-Catholic Religions forum for some previous threads on that term) who have essentially the same views of and devotions to Mary as do Catholics. Ditto for praying through the Saints. That said, for the most part you'll find Anglicans somewhere in-between the Catholic position and that of the Bible-only Protestants on these issues. Specifically, you'll hear more references to her (and the Saints) within the liturgy and prayers, and see more of her (and the Saints) in the liturgical calendar than you would most Protestant churches, but less than you would in the Catholic Church.

You'll also find a wide range of belief about whether Mary went on to have other children, whether she was/wasn't immaculately conceived herself, and whether she was assumed into heaven.

As a good case in point, the current Archbishop of Canterbury wrote a neat little book on devotion to Mary using icons (Ponder these things ). On the other hand, he caught a lot of hell for it from the evangelical wing of the church.
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  #7  
Old Nov 14, '04, 3:35 pm
jmm08 jmm08 is offline
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Arrow Re: The Anglican Rosary -- and The Angelus [Anglican]

Quote:
Originally Posted by StubbleSpark
...
Why would anyone want to pray a scaled down version (only 7 Hail Marys between mysteries and fewer mysteries) that has no such illustrious history and divine endorsement?
...
And why would you look for a non-Catholic devotional to introduce to other non-Catholics?
...
I'm only in RCIA just now, so I could be wrong.

In college, when I was in the Catholic Chapel Choir I wondered why one time we were singing "A Mighty Fortress Is Our God" (Martin Luther). And today in Church we sang an Andre Crouch song.

When I went to my Priest's office, why did he have a bunch of C. S. Lewis books in his library?

Why not? Sometimes non-Catholics produce some very inspirational things (songs, lyrics, books, etc.).

The Anglican Angelus seems to have four Marian Mysteries, but it also has four groupings of sevens to meditate on at the same time. Each bead in each of the groupings of seven represents something unique which can be meditated on as well. With seven days of the creation, seven days of the week, seven seasons of the liturgical year and seven sacraments there is enough to meditate on. And the cruciform beads also serve to remind of the Cross. I think Mary must really love this rosary too.

Even among Catholics, there are other Marian prayer items besides the usual rosary.

For example, the Chaplet of St. Maximilian Kolbe is prayed using a specific bracelet having 15 beads (14 beads in a circle and one bead between the bracelet and Miraculous Medal (or a Maximilian Kolbe medal).

And there is the "Chaplet of the Seven Sorrows of Mary" and others as well.

I'm only in RCIA, but I suppose there is no reason why a Catholic cannot pray using an Anglican rosary -- except that it might not be too common (yet).

See http://www.marysprayersrosaries.com/kolbe.asp

or go to https://marytown.com/s-cart/category.phtml
and click on "gifts".
  #8  
Old Nov 14, '04, 3:44 pm
JamesS JamesS is offline
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Default Re: The Anglican Rosary -- and The Angelus [Anglican]

Quote:
Originally Posted by StubbleSpark
The Catholic rosary has none other than the personal endorsement of the Blessed Virgin herself. It is based on the traditional liturgy of the hours (which you can also pray) which is one of the oldest devotionals in existence. History records that the rosary aided in the miraculous defense of the last vestiges of Western culture against Saracen conquest. Many more miracles have been attributed to its use and I can personally testify to miracles worked in my own life.

Why would anyone want to pray a scaled down version (only 7 Hail Marys between mysteries and fewer mysteries) that has no such illustrious history and divine endorsement?

And why would you look for a non-Catholic devotional to introduce to other non-Catholics?

Of course non-Catholics can pray the rosary. There is nothing that says you even have to be Christian to pray the rosary! This is the inherent beauty of this devotional meditative prayer -- our Mother just wants us to spend time with her -- and she will bring us closer to a more perfect conversion. Keep in mind that Catholic conversions are continual and not occurring at a single point in time. Even if you are born and raised a devout practicing Catholic, you still have a long way to go, but she will bring you there no matter where you start out.

I was praying the rosary regularly before I ever set foot in an RCIA class. My experience has convinced me that it is the best tool for conversion. I give them freely to anyone whether they are Baptist, Lutheran, Ba'hai, or Wiccan.

And the rosary is not the only meditative devotional prayer Catholics have. I already mentioned the Liturgy of the Hours above, but even the prayer bead devotionals are many. The Chaplet of Divine Mercy, the Crown of Twelve Stars of Our Lady of Mercy, etc.

The manner in which these devotionals are practiced are also numerous. You can say them alone in the dark of night, together with friends and family, in Eucharisic Adoration, you can even sing them!

As far as the shape of the beads are concerned, nothing is stopping you from making your own rosary. There are numerous web sites and hobby kits showing how to do this.

Effort is always appreciated but why try to reinvent the wheel when we have a souped-up super car complete with in-dash navigation?
Stubblespark,

I suggest you scale down your tone.

I am a Traditional Anglican, and i find it offensive that you would equate us (Traditionalists) on the same scale as Wiccans. I find this doubly offensive because my Mother is a Wiccan 'Priestess', and i know firsthand the darkness she deals in.

Traditional Anglican Communion (High mass) has much more old influences than many of the modern RC masses i've attended.

The only differences are recognition of the Pope's 'infallibility' and some things on Mother Mary. I know some priests who stress the utter importance of Mary, and i know some who roll their eyes at the subject.

If Jmm08 had encouraged me in modern 'Anglicanism' you may have a point. But there is a world of difference between the 'official' Anglican (Church of England) and Traditional Anglicanism.

As i stated in the 'meet and greet' forums i belong to The TAC (Traditional Anglican Catholic Church). We live outside the heresy of the Anglicans, and the numbers are growing rapidly. So much so, that there isn't enough time to build new parishes in some cities!

I am your brother in Christ, don't forget that.
  #9  
Old Nov 14, '04, 4:01 pm
mean_owen mean_owen is offline
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Default Re: The Anglican Rosary -- and The Angelus [Anglican]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesS
Stubblespark,

I suggest you scale down your tone.

I am a Traditional Anglican, and i find it offensive ...We live outside the heresy of the Anglicans...
It's nice that we're trying not to be offensive.
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  #10  
Old Nov 14, '04, 4:18 pm
jmm08 jmm08 is offline
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Default Re: The Anglican Rosary -- and The Angelus [Anglican]

Hopefully talk about Christian prayer can be accomplished in Christian love -- or else we should take it as a sign we are living in the last days.

GKC: The Anglican Angelus is different and longer (more Hail Marys), I think, than the traditional Roman Catholic Angelus. But I think the only significant difference is the arrangement or pattern of the individual prayers. The content of the various individual prayers is virtually the same -- I can't see much difference at all. Perhaps the difference arises because different translators translated the prayers into English.
  #11  
Old Nov 14, '04, 4:45 pm
GKC GKC is offline
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Default Re: The Anglican Rosary -- and The Angelus [Anglican]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmm08
Hopefully talk about Christian prayer can be accomplished in Christian love -- or else we should take it as a sign we are living in the last days.

GKC: The Anglican Angelus is different and longer (more Hail Marys), I think, than the traditional Roman Catholic Angelus. But I think the only significant difference is the arrangement or pattern of the individual prayers. The content of the various individual prayers is virtually the same -- I can't see much difference at all. Perhaps the difference arises because different translators translated the prayers into English.
You may well be right. The last time I heard an RC Angelus, at an indult Latin Tridentine Mass, I did seem to think it was shorter. But I might be mistaken.

GKC
  #12  
Old Nov 14, '04, 6:02 pm
StubbleSpark StubbleSpark is offline
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Angry Re: The Anglican Rosary -- and The Angelus [Anglican]

Yes, StubbleSpark, as a former Baptist, I am very insulted at your equating Baptists with Wiccans and other non-Christians. You should not put various non-Catholic religions together in the same sentence when you give examples of non-Catholic religions. How repugnant!

Also, in talking about what is so great about the rosary, I do not think you should be so forward as to say things which you actually believe (ie, that it is ancient, traditional, approved by Marian apparations, and miraculous) when those things could make other, non-Catholics who do not pray the same rosary see that there is a difference between the two. There is no point in being so bold comparing the Anglican and Catholic rosaries on a Catholic website.

And I especially do not like the way you openly stated that all non-Catholic Christians are evil, bad and stupid. Are you saying that all non-Catholics like your own Evangelical father and mother and brothers and grandparents and cousins and aunts and uncles and nephews will go to Hell because they are not Catholic? That is insanely un-Christian. I would like to suggest that maybe you are the one who should evaluate your beliefs and ferret out all evilness and stupidity that you venomously spew time and again on these threads.

Shame on you! I would watch my step, if I were you, StubbleSpark. You could end up being kicked off. It would only take a few complaints to a moderator to get you totally booted.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13184b.htm
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  #13  
Old Nov 14, '04, 6:09 pm
StubbleSpark StubbleSpark is offline
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Default Re: The Anglican Rosary -- and The Angelus [Anglican]

Quote:
Originally Posted by StubbleSpark
Yes, StubbleSpark, as a former Baptist, I am very insulted at your equating Baptists with Wiccans and other non-Christians. You should not put various non-Catholic religions together in the same sentence when you give examples of non-Catholic religions. How repugnant!

Also, in talking about what is so great about the rosary, I do not think you should be so forward as to say things which you actually believe (ie, that it is ancient, traditional, approved by Marian apparations, and miraculous) when those things could make other, non-Catholics who do not pray the same rosary see that there is a difference between the two. There is no point in being so bold comparing the Anglican and Catholic rosaries on a Catholic website.

And I especially do not like the way you openly stated that all non-Catholic Christians are evil, bad and stupid. Are you saying that all non-Catholics like your own Evangelical father and mother and brothers and grandparents and cousins and aunts and uncles and nephews will go to Hell because they are not Catholic? That is insanely un-Christian. I would like to suggest that maybe you are the one who should evaluate your beliefs and ferret out all evilness and stupidity that you venomously spew time and again on these threads.

Shame on you! I would watch my step, if I were you, StubbleSpark. You could end up being kicked off. It would only take a few complaints to a moderator to get you totally booted.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13184b.htm
You are right, StubbleSpark. I will try to be more careful and tone down the things I do not say and make it easier for people criticize me by not reading the things I do say.

I wish I was as smart, handsome and humble as you, StubbleSpark.
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  #14  
Old Nov 14, '04, 6:20 pm
Ortega Ortega is offline
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Default Re: The Anglican Rosary -- and The Angelus [Anglican]

One of the best books I ever read about the Rosary is called " The Rosary for Episcopalians ".
Shed some insight into using the rosary and prayer beads to further Christian devotion. Check it out.
  #15  
Old Nov 14, '04, 8:01 pm
mean_owen mean_owen is offline
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Default Re: The Anglican Rosary -- and The Angelus [Anglican]

jmm- (re post 10) fair enuf.

Ortie: that reminds me, I believe you first pointed out this use of the rosary beads for devotion: http://www.ecumenicalrosary.org/

Regarding the Angelus, that's one that I don't believe I've ever heard at an ECUSA Eucharist or other service (tho the final collect is in the BCP, and the Angelus appears in the Anglican Service Book, used in some ECUSA parishes).
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