Catholic FAQ


Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #1  
Old Apr 1, '08, 7:20 pm
JustaServant's Avatar
JustaServant JustaServant is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 27, 2007
Posts: 6,558
Religion: Catholic (revert)
Default Was Constantine really that bad?

"The Church was pure until Constantine"
I used to buy into this lie at one time.
Where can one find a good history and biography of this much maligned Roman emperor? Was he really as bad as anti-Catholics seem to think he was?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old Apr 1, '08, 7:58 pm
Alexius Alexius is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: November 30, 2006
Posts: 1,327
Religion: Ukrainian Greek Catholic
Default Re: Was Constantine really that bad?

Well, I'm sure many anti-Catholics would love to hear that Orthodox and Eastern Catholics consider him a saint of the Church...

I'm not sure he was that horrible, but he certainly takes the rap for a lot of "corruption." He definately held to some Pagan ideas, or he seemed to, but he was an emperor, not a bishop. He was baptized right before his death by an Arian hierarch. I guess that's all the bad I can think of...

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

My 1200th post! Yeah!!
__________________
C:\Documents and Settings\owner\My Documents\My Pictures\Picture\avatar_1998.png

Our Lady of Czestochowa,
Pray for Us.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old Apr 1, '08, 8:00 pm
Tim Kirchoff Tim Kirchoff is offline
Senior Member
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: August 24, 2007
Posts: 7,527
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Was Constantine really that bad?

I'm sure that they would have preferred that Christians be persecuted for their beliefs...
__________________
Saints and sinners often seem the other to themselves
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old Apr 1, '08, 8:09 pm
cascherman cascherman is offline
Regular Member
Forum Supporter
Book Club Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2007
Posts: 708
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Was Constantine really that bad?

Eusebius was kind enough to write a history on him See here. I figure it will be much more accurate than any biography written these days, especially considering he wrote it only a hundred years after he lived.

I'll tell you the formula used to smear Constantine as a bad influence on the Church.

#1- He was a pagan
#2- It is/was questioned that his conversion was a political ploy. Most of this thought comes from the fact that he was such a high profile and it did indeed have an enormous effect on the Roman empire. There is actually no evidence (that I have seen), other than a hunch, pointing to the fact that he was not genuinely converted.
#3- He was an emperor not a religious leader, and anyone seeing a secular leader having such an impact on religion as him assumes it was a bad impact.

Regardless of what he actually did, these three things add up in many peoples minds as enough to write him off as bad.

I personally like Constantine. I feel he really tried to lead an empire into Christianity.

Also it should be noted Eusebius was credited with a work called Oration in Praise of Constantine. So a major church leader (bishop of Caesarea) has good things to say about him less than 100 years later. Pretty good indicator of whether the impact he had was good or bad.
__________________
"a God without wrath brought man without sin into a kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a cross"
-H. Richard Neibuhrs on the heresy of American Liberal Theology
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old Apr 1, '08, 8:23 pm
NotWorthy's Avatar
NotWorthy NotWorthy is offline
Forum Master
 
Join Date: May 10, 2005
Posts: 13,932
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Was Constantine really that bad?

I'm not sure Eusebius is the best source of history on Constantine. I heard that if it were up to Eusebius, Constantine would be a saint. More than one Catholic author has claimed that Eusebius judgment toward Constantine was overly rosy.
__________________
Follow your Dreams! Except for the ones where you're naked in Church!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old Apr 1, '08, 8:26 pm
cascherman cascherman is offline
Regular Member
Forum Supporter
Book Club Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2007
Posts: 708
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Was Constantine really that bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotWorthy View Post
I'm not sure Eusebius is the best source of history on Constantine. I heard that if it were up to Eusebius, Constantine would be a saint. More than one Catholic author has claimed that Eusebius judgment toward Constantine was overly rosy.
You think we should write off Eusebius because he favored Constantine? Does it not serve the purpose as a fit biography?

As said here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexius View Post
Well, I'm sure many anti-Catholics would love to hear that Orthodox and Eastern Catholics consider him a saint of the Church...
Eusebius wasn't the only one.
__________________
"a God without wrath brought man without sin into a kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a cross"
-H. Richard Neibuhrs on the heresy of American Liberal Theology
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old Apr 1, '08, 10:51 pm
NotWorthy's Avatar
NotWorthy NotWorthy is offline
Forum Master
 
Join Date: May 10, 2005
Posts: 13,932
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Was Constantine really that bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cascherman View Post
You think we should write off Eusebius because he favored Constantine? Does it not serve the purpose as a fit biography?

As said here:

Eusebius wasn't the only one.
No, but I think the normally un-biased writings of Eusebius approached "idol-worship" when discussing the role of Constantine in the early Church.
__________________
Follow your Dreams! Except for the ones where you're naked in Church!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old Apr 2, '08, 1:00 am
Semper Fi Semper Fi is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: August 15, 2004
Posts: 3,496
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Was Constantine really that bad?

Constantine is a Saint on the Eastern an Oriental calendars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotWorthy View Post
I'm not sure Eusebius is the best source of history on Constantine. I heard that if it were up to Eusebius, Constantine would be a saint. More than one Catholic author has claimed that Eusebius judgment toward Constantine was overly rosy.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old Apr 2, '08, 5:22 am
JMBNH JMBNH is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: December 22, 2007
Posts: 353
Default Re: Was Constantine really that bad?

The noly bad thing as far as I can tell is that some later Emperors wanted to control the Church and tried to take some or all of that authority off the Pope, though Constantine himself didn't
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old Apr 2, '08, 6:01 am
Cajetan Cajetan is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: March 14, 2008
Posts: 301
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Was Constantine really that bad?

As far as Emperors go, Constantine was pretty good.

Maybe people just don't like Emperors.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old Apr 2, '08, 7:31 am
NotWorthy's Avatar
NotWorthy NotWorthy is offline
Forum Master
 
Join Date: May 10, 2005
Posts: 13,932
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Was Constantine really that bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMBNH View Post
The noly bad thing as far as I can tell is that some later Emperors wanted to control the Church and tried to take some or all of that authority off the Pope, though Constantine himself didn't
I understand the call to Nicea was from Constantine, against the Pope's wishes.

Although it was not an outright attempt to control the Church, it was still at the instigation of Constantine. In any event, it was meant to prevent a split in the Catholic Church (orthodox vs. Aryans).
__________________
Follow your Dreams! Except for the ones where you're naked in Church!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old Apr 2, '08, 8:12 am
Tomster Tomster is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2006
Posts: 4,362
Religion: Traditional Roman Catholic
Default Re: Was Constantine really that bad?

The great social reform that was to culminate in the abolition of slavery and the remodelling of the Roman family was only made possible by discouraging the non-Catholics, for the Catholics alone were prepared for these profound reforms, they alone had learned to respect the slaves and to lead a healthy family life. It was more for political reasons that Constantine and his successors insisted with such a heavy hand on maintaining unity of faith in the Roman Empire. It emerges, both from one of Constantine's letters, and from his speech to the Council of Nicea, that he turned to the Christians because, above all else, he found a social sense among them and a spirit of sacrifice up until then unexampled. In the face of endemic military revolutions, the Church seemed to him to be the sole institution in which any belief in authority and any moral stability remained. Christianity appeared to him and his successors to be the only bond of unity that could prevent the dissolution of the Empire. If they served the unity of the Church, it was because this unity alone could serve their political designs. And that is why every attempt against this unity seemed, at the same time, to be an attempt against the State."
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old Jun 11, '09, 7:04 am
JustaServant's Avatar
JustaServant JustaServant is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 27, 2007
Posts: 6,558
Religion: Catholic (revert)
Default Re: Was Constantine really that bad?

This is an ooooold thread, but it hasnt been discussed in a while.
Revisionist church history would have us believe everything went to pot in 312 AD under Constantine. What about a proper view of Constintine and the Middle Ages? What are some writings that refute the so-called 'Dark Ages'?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old Jun 11, '09, 11:36 am
NotWorthy's Avatar
NotWorthy NotWorthy is offline
Forum Master
 
Join Date: May 10, 2005
Posts: 13,932
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Was Constantine really that bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustaServant View Post
.... What about a proper view of Constintine and the Middle Ages? ...
If I recall correctly, Constantine was still dead in the Middle Ages!

I'm sorry, I couldn't resist!
__________________
Follow your Dreams! Except for the ones where you're naked in Church!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old Jun 11, '09, 11:46 am
JustaServant's Avatar
JustaServant JustaServant is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 27, 2007
Posts: 6,558
Religion: Catholic (revert)
Default Re: Was Constantine really that bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotWorthy View Post
If I recall correctly, Constantine was still dead in the Middle Ages!

I'm sorry, I couldn't resist!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bad dream, unexpected reaction -- sin or not? strngrnrth Moral Theology 11 Mar 26, '08 7:06 pm
Watch your Snappi's - seriously -- this is bad. KCtheMommy Parenting 20 Mar 19, '08 11:33 pm
Bad situation w/ familiar personality cecilia97 Prayer Intentions 8 Mar 12, '08 11:39 am
Bad winter weather and attending Mass dizzy_dave Back Fence 18 Mar 9, '08 8:38 pm
Bad morning sickness = girl? mschrank Parenting 28 Feb 22, '08 2:15 pm



Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
8547Meet and talk,talk talk
Last by: Eungang
5208CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: UpUpAndAway
4435Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: DesertSister62
4037OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: eschator83
3871SOLITUDE
Last by: tuscany
3848Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: RJB
3410Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: grateful_child
3302Poems and Reflections
Last by: PathWalker
3231Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: Rifester
3155For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: Paulette60



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 6:18 pm.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2014, Catholic Answers.