Is the Presentation of Gifts to Mary appropriate for a wedding Mass?

[Asillia]

This is such a strange question but:

My fiance and I are marrying in October. We are both devoted Catholics and really look forward to the Nuptial Mass as a holy, sacred event - no secular music, etc (with the exception of Canon in D for the processional). We know it's not some vehicle for our creative expression or something to personalize, but the celebration of a Sacrament.

We were originally going to have a Unity Candle, but as I did more research I realized it wasn't actually a Catholic rite (I mistakenly assumed it was a part of the ceremony, or kind of like a special blessing done during a special occasion - kind of like how there is a blessing on the palms or Advent Wreath during other special occasions during the Mass) and that it was something people just added on themselves for their own reasons and that the 'symbolism' detracts from what is actually going on. So we decided we didn't want one (although we might still have one at the reception and keep it to light on anniversaries or something).

Well, I was talking with one of my friends who has a masters degree in sacred music and is an organist and she said that the Presentation to the Holy Family (is that different from the Presentation of Gifts to Mary? I've heard both of them mentioned and I'm not sure if they are interchangeable or what) is also not technically part of the rite and some Churches also don't allow that.

We had really looked forward to doing that, and asking her intercession, but if it's just some add-on, I wouldn't want to denigrate the Mass or tinker with it. We were originally going to do it after the Rite of the Eucharist, but before the Final Blessing and Recessional, while the Ave Maria was sung. This is the first I've ever heard of it not being legitamate - I have many conservative Catholic friends who have incoporated this into their weddings, and have read about it in the marriage prep books we've recieved. Of course, this is also the first I've heard of the Unity Candle being wrong, too - and it seems like there is a lot of confusion over what is really proper in a Catholic wedding, even coming from priests, organists, and the churches themselves.

The other concern I have is this: We're getting married in my home state. I knew from the start that I didn't want to get married at my home parish (it's a little liberal, and it's modern-ugly). So we're actually getting married at the alumni chapel at the college I used to go to. This has been fully approved and there are lots of Catholic weddings there on a yearly basis. But, they naturally don't have any shrines to the Virgin Mary. I had mentioned this to my priest (who is pretty traditional and VERY devoted to Mary) and that I was sad we wouldn't be able to present a gift and he said we could bring a small icon of our own and present the flowers to that.

My question is: would that be appropriate, and how would we do it reverently - would we need to set it up and have it blessed beforehand? Would we need some candles? Would a statuette be acceptable? Is there a difference between an icon of the Holy Family and one of the Virgin Mary? Is a Presentation of Gifts to the Holy Family interchangeable with a Presentation of Gifts to the Virgin Mary, or is one preferred over the other?

Figured you were the ones to ask
Thanks

[Br. Rich SFO]

Originally Posted by Asillia

This is such a strange question but:

My fiance and I are marrying in October. We are both devoted Catholics and really look forward to the Nuptial Mass as a holy, sacred event - no secular music, etc (with the exception of Canon in D for the processional). We know it's not some vehicle for our creative expression or something to personalize, but the celebration of a Sacrament.

We were originally going to have a Unity Candle, but as I did more research I realized it wasn't actually a Catholic rite (I mistakenly assumed it was a part of the ceremony, or kind of like a special blessing done during a special occasion - kind of like how there is a blessing on the palms or Advent Wreath during other special occasions during the Mass) and that it was something people just added on themselves for their own reasons and that the 'symbolism' detracts from what is actually going on. So we decided we didn't want one (although we might still have one at the reception and keep it to light on anniversaries or something).

Well, I was talking with one of my friends who has a masters degree in sacred music and is an organist and she said that the Presentation to the Holy Family (is that different from the Presentation of Gifts to Mary? I've heard both of them mentioned and I'm not sure if they are interchangeable or what) is also not technically part of the rite and some Churches also don't allow that.

We had really looked forward to doing that, and asking her intercession, but if it's just some add-on, I wouldn't want to denigrate the Mass or tinker with it. We were originally going to do it after the Rite of the Eucharist, but before the Final Blessing and Recessional, while the Ave Maria was sung. This is the first I've ever heard of it not being legitamate - I have many conservative Catholic friends who have incoporated this into their weddings, and have read about it in the marriage prep books we've recieved. Of course, this is also the first I've heard of the Unity Candle being wrong, too - and it seems like there is a lot of confusion over what is really proper in a Catholic wedding, even coming from priests, organists, and the churches themselves.

The other concern I have is this: We're getting married in my home state. I knew from the start that I didn't want to get married at my home parish (it's a little liberal, and it's modern-ugly). So we're actually getting married at the alumni chapel at the college I used to go to. This has been fully approved and there are lots of Catholic weddings there on a yearly basis. But, they naturally don't have any shrines to the Virgin Mary. I had mentioned this to my priest (who is pretty traditional and VERY devoted to Mary) and that I was sad we wouldn't be able to present a gift and he said we could bring a small icon of our own and present the flowers to that.

My question is: would that be appropriate, and how would we do it reverently - would we need to set it up and have it blessed beforehand? Would we need some candles? Would a statuette be acceptable? Is there a difference between an icon of the Holy Family and one of the Virgin Mary? Is a Presentation of Gifts to the Holy Family interchangeable with a Presentation of Gifts to the Virgin Mary, or is one preferred over the other?

Figured you were the ones to ask
Thanks

Will there be non-Catholics there? A presentation AFTER the Mass would be fine. To set up a statue or Icon for that purpose however might cause great confusion if there are non-Catholic attending.

[PaixGioiaAmor]

It is not in the rite; it is technically an "add-on". Additionally, it falls under the category of "devotion", which is always seperate from the mass.

God bless you for thinking of more than your SELF as you plan your wedding.

[agapewolf]

It is not technically part of the marriage rite, however, the marriage rite does allow for cultural things. (this is actually stated in the rite itself) This could be one of them, if your priest allows it.

The idea isn't just to give her a flower and walk away. The idea is to make it prayerful, that you are asking her intercession on keeping your family focused on Christ.

I've done (played music for) a couple weddings of faithful Catholics who also went to the Joseph statue after the Mary presentation

You can do one to the Holy Family if you prefer.

You are right about the unity candle. I heard it actually came from a soap opera. Why do a unity candle when the unity actually happens at the Eucharist?

[Asillia]

There will be non-Catholics there, but, knowing them, they wouldn't be that confused.

So, what is the proper thing to do in this situation? To do it after everybody leaves? Or after the recessional? At which point does the Mass 'end'? Am I right in understanding that this is not something to be included at any point in the public ceremony, and not to be accompanied by music?

EDIT: Oh, thanks agapewolf - I hadn't seen your reply. And yes, it would definitely be a prayerful moment.

Also, I thought the unity came at the point we married each other. The unity symbolized by the Unity Candle, I mean. I know there is also unity in the Eucharist.

[agapewolf]

Normally its done after communion, before the final blessing. The priest can explain it, (or you can in your program.) You can have it accompanied by a Marian song.

I completely understand not wanting to change up the mass and things, but in the rite of marriage, there is a lot of leeway given in the rite itself for cultural things. (especially because marriage is also somewhat a civil matter too).

If you and your fiance have a strong devotion to Mary, or the Holy Family, it makes sense for it to be there as long as the priest allows it. Ask yourself if it could possibly evangelize someone? (as opposed to the unity candle).

Many many times at a Sunday Mass, there is a special blessing given for this or that. This is similar to that.

As far as what to bring, I think you could bring an attractive statue or Icon, and place it neatly on a table to to the side, maybe with a candle nearby already. Depends on the church.

[Asillia]

Yes, we are looking forward to writing our program We want to explain a couple things

[OutinChgoburbs]

What agapewolf said, and please feel free to do it if your priest feels it's OK. It is such a lovely devotion. And I don't agree about screening such things from non-Catholics. Let them learn about the Holy Family!

[ForMary]

Originally Posted by Asillia

This is such a strange question but:

My fiance and I are marrying in October. We are both devoted Catholics and really look forward to the Nuptial Mass as a holy, sacred event - no secular music, etc (with the exception of Canon in D for the processional). We know it's not some vehicle for our creative expression or something to personalize, but the celebration of a Sacrament.

We were originally going to have a Unity Candle, but as I did more research I realized it wasn't actually a Catholic rite (I mistakenly assumed it was a part of the ceremony, or kind of like a special blessing done during a special occasion - kind of like how there is a blessing on the palms or Advent Wreath during other special occasions during the Mass) and that it was something people just added on themselves for their own reasons and that the 'symbolism' detracts from what is actually going on. So we decided we didn't want one (although we might still have one at the reception and keep it to light on anniversaries or something).

Well, I was talking with one of my friends who has a masters degree in sacred music and is an organist and she said that the Presentation to the Holy Family (is that different from the Presentation of Gifts to Mary? I've heard both of them mentioned and I'm not sure if they are interchangeable or what) is also not technically part of the rite and some Churches also don't allow that.

We had really looked forward to doing that, and asking her intercession, but if it's just some add-on, I wouldn't want to denigrate the Mass or tinker with it. We were originally going to do it after the Rite of the Eucharist, but before the Final Blessing and Recessional, while the Ave Maria was sung. This is the first I've ever heard of it not being legitamate - I have many conservative Catholic friends who have incoporated this into their weddings, and have read about it in the marriage prep books we've recieved. Of course, this is also the first I've heard of the Unity Candle being wrong, too - and it seems like there is a lot of confusion over what is really proper in a Catholic wedding, even coming from priests, organists, and the churches themselves.

The other concern I have is this: We're getting married in my home state. I knew from the start that I didn't want to get married at my home parish (it's a little liberal, and it's modern-ugly). So we're actually getting married at the alumni chapel at the college I used to go to. This has been fully approved and there are lots of Catholic weddings there on a yearly basis. But, they naturally don't have any shrines to the Virgin Mary. I had mentioned this to my priest (who is pretty traditional and VERY devoted to Mary) and that I was sad we wouldn't be able to present a gift and he said we could bring a small icon of our own and present the flowers to that.

My question is: would that be appropriate, and how would we do it reverently - would we need to set it up and have it blessed beforehand? Would we need some candles? Would a statuette be acceptable? Is there a difference between an icon of the Holy Family and one of the Virgin Mary? Is a Presentation of Gifts to the Holy Family interchangeable with a Presentation of Gifts to the Virgin Mary, or is one preferred over the other?

Figured you were the ones to ask
Thanks

This may well depend on both the Priest and the physical church. If there is a Marion Devotional in the church (older churches usually have these) then it is not uncommon to give flowers to our Blessed Mother as an acknowledgement (Matrimony actually means "the making of a mother").

Additionally, my second daughter did have a unity candle; the individual candles were lit before mass by my son-in-law's mother and me. Although, I can't remember at what point the two of them lit the unity candle, but I do remember the deflated (not the right word, really) feeling I felt when they blew out those single candles. It was a formidable moment for me, one of my daughters was now first someone's wife. It was powerful for me.

[Red Meg]

In my parish growing up, it was very common for the priests to end the prayer of the faithful with something along the lines of, "and, as always, we entrust our petitions to our Blessed Mother. Hail Mary, full of grace..." etc.

That was how we incorporated it into our wedding-- we made our petitions, and then dh & I brought roses over to the statue of Our Lady while everyone prayed the Hail Mary.

No idea if that was strictly kosher or not, but our priest, normally very, very orthodox, (who always ended his homilies with something like, "Let us turn to Our Lady and ask...") had no problem with it.

Margaret

PS A friend who also wanted to present flowers to Our Lady as part of the wedding had the "Ave Maria" sung for the presentation of the gifts. Since it's such a long hymn, she first went and presented flowers, then the gifts were brought up.

[Joe Kelley]

I don't know if there is any rule on this. In weddings I have seen [mostly while waiting for Confession] recently the flowers were presented to Mary after Communion, just before the final blessing. That may just be local custom.

[1ke]

Originally Posted by Asillia

There will be non-Catholics there, but, knowing them, they wouldn't be that confused.

So, what is the proper thing to do in this situation? To do it after everybody leaves? Or after the recessional? At which point does the Mass 'end'? Am I right in understanding that this is not something to be included at any point in the public ceremony, and not to be accompanied by music?

EDIT: Oh, thanks agapewolf - I hadn't seen your reply. And yes, it would definitely be a prayerful moment.

Also, I thought the unity came at the point we married each other. The unity symbolized by the Unity Candle, I mean. I know there is also unity in the Eucharist.

We did the presentation to Mary after Communion and before the final blessing. Our soloist sang the hymn "On This Day O Beautiful Mother" while we did the presentation of flowers and prayed.

[1ke]

Originally Posted by Asillia

Yes, we are looking forward to writing our program We want to explain a couple things

My program was 12 pages long in booklet form!

[Snowball]

I have two daughters that were married in the Church, and the presentation of the flowers to Mary, was part of it..There were non-Cathlics there, they thought it was beautiful..and some asked about it afterward, what a wonderful way to share ones faith !!!

They also had a Unity Candle,,but that was done at the beginning of the reception, it was placed on the head table, and lit with a blessing to the Bride & Groom followed by saying Grace.

[Sarabande]

As others have mentioned for their own weddings, we did the Presentation to Mary after the Mass and before the Final blessing. You would say a prayer to the Blessed Mother while a hymn to Mary is played - usually a setting of the Ave Maria or another appropriate hymn. That is where it is done with all the wedding masses I've ever done that included the Presentation to the Blessed Mother.

Agapewolf is also correct about the allowance of cultural things. We were allowed the Filipino marriage traditions during the wedding since I'm part Filipina.

In my diocese, they have basically done away with the Unity Candle altogether. Officially, it is "discouraged" and there is an explanation as to why. But many pastors in my diocese don't allow it at all, which is fine. Over the past few years, I've been seeing it less and less at Catholic weddings.