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  #1  
Old Apr 18, '08, 4:58 pm
Catholic Dude Catholic Dude is offline
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Default Mohammed's Ascension to Heaven versus Jesus' Ascension?

A few days ago I came across some very interesting news.

Everyone knows that after Jesus arose from the dead He Ascended into Heaven shortly afterwards, marking the fulfillment of His work on earth. I was always under the impression Mohammed ascended into Heaven when he was done preaching, in a way similar to Jesus. The place where Mohammed ascended was in central Jerusalem at a shrine called the Dome of the Rock (the gold dome you see in pictures).

It TURNS OUT that I was wrong this whole time, Mohammed did ascend to Heaven at the Dome, but it was not at the end of his life. According to Islamic history there was a time when he was in Saudi Arabia (Mecca) and a flying horse came and they flew off to Jerusalem, and from there the horse took him to Heaven to talk with the Prophets of the past. Afterwards they flew back to Mecca. This is the "ascension". Further, it turns out that he died of someone poisoning him and his grave is still known and preserved at a major shrine in mecca.
Here is the story on wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isra_and_Mi%27raj


Did you know this? What do you think about this story?

I think the Resurrection of Jesus and His Ascension is much more inspiring.
  #2  
Old Apr 18, '08, 5:14 pm
Mister De Mister De is offline
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Default Re: Mohammed's Ascension to Heaven versus Jesus' Ascension?

Good thing you went to Wikipedia for the facts.
  #3  
Old Apr 18, '08, 5:26 pm
Catholic Dude Catholic Dude is offline
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Default Re: Mohammed's Ascension to Heaven versus Jesus' Ascension?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister De View Post
Good thing you went to Wikipedia for the facts.
I know what you are thinking, but it was a muslim on these forums who gave me the link. Also, Wiki isnt a horrible source, it is only bad for very controversial issues where biases affect the information.
  #4  
Old Apr 18, '08, 5:32 pm
Mister De Mister De is offline
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Default Re: Mohammed's Ascension to Heaven versus Jesus' Ascension?

Wikipedia has some decent articles, but I never ever go there for political or religious articles. The site is filled with leftist, liberal bias. Statistics show more nearly 1/3 of Wikipedia editors are Atheists. It's tough to find a neutral religious article, or one that doesn't contain criticisms.
  #5  
Old Apr 18, '08, 5:38 pm
Catholic Dude Catholic Dude is offline
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Default Re: Mohammed's Ascension to Heaven versus Jesus' Ascension?

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Originally Posted by Mister De View Post
Wikipedia has some decent articles, but I never ever go there for political or religious articles. The site is filled with leftist, liberal bias. Statistics show more nearly 1/3 of Wikipedia editors are Atheists. It's tough to find a neutral religious article, or one that doesn't contain criticisms.
You make good points.
If there is anything wrong with the wiki article I welcome any correction on this thread.
  #6  
Old Apr 18, '08, 5:42 pm
mark a mark a is offline
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Default Re: Mohammed's Ascension to Heaven versus Jesus' Ascension?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catholic Dude View Post
A few days ago I came across some very interesting news.

Everyone knows that after Jesus arose from the dead He Ascended into Heaven shortly afterwards, marking the fulfillment of His work on earth. I was always under the impression Mohammed ascended into Heaven when he was done preaching, in a way similar to Jesus. The place where Mohammed ascended was in central Jerusalem at a shrine called the Dome of the Rock (the gold dome you see in pictures).

It TURNS OUT that I was wrong this whole time, Mohammed did ascend to Heaven at the Dome, but it was not at the end of his life. According to Islamic history there was a time when he was in Saudi Arabia (Mecca) and a flying horse came and they flew off to Jerusalem, and from there the horse took him to Heaven to talk with the Prophets of the past. Afterwards they flew back to Mecca. This is the "ascension". Further, it turns out that he died of someone poisoning him and his grave is still known and preserved at a major shrine in mecca.
Here is the story on wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isra_and_Mi%27raj


Did you know this? What do you think about this story?

I think the Resurrection of Jesus and His Ascension is much more inspiring.
I always assumed Muhammed was assumed. Only God can ascend.
  #7  
Old Apr 18, '08, 9:37 pm
Sister Amy Sister Amy is offline
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Default Re: Mohammed's Ascension to Heaven versus Jesus' Ascension?

Hi there, I'm glad you brought this up, in case anyone else had the wrong idea.

First of all, let me say that Muslims do believe Jesus ascended to Heaven.. the Qur'an actually says that God "raised" him up, and not that he ascended. But Muslims believe it was before Jesus (allegedly) died on the cross, and that Jesus is still in Heaven, until he will return in the last days.

Regarding the ascension of Muhammad, it was an event during his lifetime, there is a lengthy hadith which described it in detail--if you're interested let me know and I'll try to find it for you. I skimmed the wikipedia article and didn't see anything obviously wrong, but then again I only skimmed it. Nonetheless, the gist of it is correct--that Muhammad travelled miraculously to Jerusalem and led the prophets (including Jesus) in prayer, and from there ascended to heaven where he was given a tour, so to speak, and the commandment of daily prayers.

Muhammad himself died many years after this event, in Medina, in the house of his wife, 'Aisha, and he was buried there in her house. The mosque in Medina (which is called Masjid An-Nabawi--mosque of the prophet) was eventually expanded (to hold more people) and now it encompasses the grave of Muhammad.

So specifically, it's not a shrine built around him or his grave, but in the expansion of the mosque, they decided to not move the grave.
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  #8  
Old Apr 19, '08, 1:16 am
bpbasilphx bpbasilphx is offline
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Default Re: Mohammed's Ascension to Heaven versus Jesus' Ascension?

Mahomet was an apostate Nestorian clergyman who was deceived by an inferior demon pretending to be Gabriel.

And he married a 9 year old girl. Any man who does so is by definition a pedophile.

Furthermore, every word in the Coran is a lie including "a", "an", and "the."

I confess there is NO GOD but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and Jesus is God Incarnate risen from the dead.
  #9  
Old Apr 19, '08, 3:19 am
Mister De Mister De is offline
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Default Re: Mohammed's Ascension to Heaven versus Jesus' Ascension?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catholic Dude View Post
You make good points.
If there is anything wrong with the wiki article I welcome any correction on this thread.
Not that I know of. Then again, I'm Catholic, not Muslim. So if the article was wrong I wouldn't know. I was having some fun with you in my initial post. I didn't really think it would be acknowledged.
  #10  
Old Apr 19, '08, 12:17 pm
Catholic Dude Catholic Dude is offline
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Default Re: Mohammed's Ascension to Heaven versus Jesus' Ascension?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Amy View Post
Hi there, I'm glad you brought this up, in case anyone else had the wrong idea.

First of all, let me say that Muslims do believe Jesus ascended to Heaven.. the Qur'an actually says that God "raised" him up, and not that he ascended. But Muslims believe it was before Jesus (allegedly) died on the cross, and that Jesus is still in Heaven, until he will return in the last days.

Regarding the ascension of Muhammad, it was an event during his lifetime, there is a lengthy hadith which described it in detail--if you're interested let me know and I'll try to find it for you. I skimmed the wikipedia article and didn't see anything obviously wrong, but then again I only skimmed it. Nonetheless, the gist of it is correct--that Muhammad travelled miraculously to Jerusalem and led the prophets (including Jesus) in prayer, and from there ascended to heaven where he was given a tour, so to speak, and the commandment of daily prayers.

Muhammad himself died many years after this event, in Medina, in the house of his wife, 'Aisha, and he was buried there in her house. The mosque in Medina (which is called Masjid An-Nabawi--mosque of the prophet) was eventually expanded (to hold more people) and now it encompasses the grave of Muhammad.

So specifically, it's not a shrine built around him or his grave, but in the expansion of the mosque, they decided to not move the grave.
Thank you for this information.

Why do you think Jesus was able to be taken to Heaven while Mohammed was left on earth to die? I believe being taken to Heaven (to live forever) would be a greater honor and more miraculous sign.
  #11  
Old Apr 19, '08, 1:42 pm
Sister Amy Sister Amy is offline
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Default Re: Mohammed's Ascension to Heaven versus Jesus' Ascension?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catholic Dude View Post
Thank you for this information.

Why do you think Jesus was able to be taken to Heaven while Mohammed was left on earth to die? I believe being taken to Heaven (to live forever) would be a greater honor and more miraculous sign.
Well Muslims don't believe Jesus is going to live forever in heaven. But that he is going to return at the end of time to fulfill some more prophecies, and then everybody is going to die, and he will be resurrected on the Day of Judgment like everyone else. It is a miraculous sign.

But not many people have the grave of their Prophet with them, so it's also kind of an honor for the Muslims, in one interpretation.
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  #12  
Old Apr 19, '08, 2:42 pm
Catholic Dude Catholic Dude is offline
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Default Re: Mohammed's Ascension to Heaven versus Jesus' Ascension?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Amy View Post
Well Muslims don't believe Jesus is going to live forever in heaven. But that he is going to return at the end of time to fulfill some more prophecies, and then everybody is going to die, and he will be resurrected on the Day of Judgment like everyone else. It is a miraculous sign.

But not many people have the grave of their Prophet with them, so it's also kind of an honor for the Muslims, in one interpretation.
Jesus is going to return to fulfill prophecies and then die!?!?! I have never heard this stuff!

The contrast between what you have said thus far and what the Bible and Christian history teaches is enough for me to say either the Bible is so radically corrupted that literally only the fact Jesus existed remains, or else Islam is in grave error. Rather than Jesus coming and making a difference you are basically saying for 600 years from Jesus to Mohammed, Christianity was in the worst delusion and error possible (far worse than the Jews ever were or could imagine).

Think about it, if Jesus was a true or venerable prophet then why for 600 years was His legacy an utter failure...unless you adhere to the Mormon position that the Church Jesus established flopped after the death of the last apostle (implying Jesus was a failure as well).
  #13  
Old Apr 19, '08, 2:57 pm
charlitstar charlitstar is offline
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Default Re: Mohammed's Ascension to Heaven versus Jesus' Ascension?

Yes. The Muslim belief about the ascension of Jesus was somewhat different than that of Christianity too- that Christ was ascended to heaven BEFORE the crucifixion but Christ did not die on the cross nor resurrect from death. Muslims also believe in the Second Coming of Christ.
  #14  
Old Apr 20, '08, 3:15 am
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Sam_777 Sam_777 is offline
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Default Re: Mohammed's Ascension to Heaven versus Jesus' Ascension?

Actually in that story the official 5 prayers were given to Muhammad through Allah, here is how that had happened:

-Allah told Muhammad to pray 50 times a day.
-Muhammad got back to Prophet Moses who told him go back and ask for reduction.
-Muhammad went back to Allah, and the prayers reduced by 10.
-Muhammad got back to Prophet Moses who told him go back and ask for more reduction.
-Muhammad went back to Allah, and the prayers reduced further by 10.
-Muhammad got back to Prophet Moses who told him go back and ask for more reduction.
-Muhammad again went back to Allah, and the prayers reduced by 10.
-And Muhammad repeated this coming and going between Moses and Allah till the prayers became only 5 a day.

I would like to ask my fellow Muslims, does that really make sense that Allah had changed his mind frequently in a single night, honestly is it logic !!!!
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  #15  
Old Apr 20, '08, 4:28 am
Angelos Angelos is offline
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Smile Re: Mohammed's Ascension to Heaven versus Jesus' Ascension?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Amy View Post
Well Muslims don't believe Jesus is going to live forever in heaven. But that he is going to return at the end of time to fulfill some more prophecies, and then everybody is going to die, and he will be resurrected on the Day of Judgment like everyone else. It is a miraculous sign.
According to the uncanny Islamic tenet, Jesus was killed not by Jews, but by Allah, who took Him to heaven for the sake of saving Him from death. Jesus in the Koran states that Allah caused Him to die before the day of Judgment (Surah 5:117). Thus, Muslims believe that Jesus will return - even though nothing of the sort is implied in their Scripture - to accomplish His so-called incomplete prophetic mission and die for the second time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Amy View Post
But not many people have the grave of their Prophet with them, so it's also kind of an honor for the Muslims, in one interpretation.
Some boast of their dead prophet in contrast to those who boast of their risen Savior in heaven. Besides, it is completely natural for Muslims to have the grave of their prophet, who was an earthly king that died a natural death and was buried by his followers into a definite place remaining under the Islamic control for ages.
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