scripture and homosexuality

[feetxxxl]

believe what you want, but scripture has never declared homosexuality a sin.

........not from the prohibitions of lev(not all prohibitions of themselves were a sin, and other things that were condoned are now considered intolerable evils) to sodom's condoning of the gang rape of strangers, to the shame based lust of romans( lust being the antithesis of human bonding. human bonding is done out of mutual love , respect, devotion, trust, and attraction for a shared committed life together) to the "malebed" of 1cor and 1tim(how can an animate person be transposed for an inanimate object, and how out of all the possible meanings was homosexual the one specific one designated.


jesus said we would recognize them from their fruits............fruits as depicted in fruits of the spirit in gal5.


paul said the things of the sin nature are OBVIOUS......by their very essence, it is self explanatory on how they come against the fruit of the spirit (gal5) and loving ones neighbor as oneself(the summation of all the law)(romans).


what is self evident of the essence of homosexuality that it would come against both of these?

[jay29]

"And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet." - Romans 1:27

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination." - Leviticus 18:22

"The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so [are] abomination unto the Lord thy God." - Deuteronomy 22:5

[ralphinal]

Originally Posted by feetxxxl

believe what you want, but scripture has never declared homosexuality a sin.

........not from the prohibitions of lev(not all prohibitions of themselves were a sin, and other things that were condoned are now considered intolerable evils) to sodom's condoning of the gang rape of strangers, to the shame based lust of romans( lust being the antithesis of human bonding. human bonding is done out of mutual love , respect, devotion, trust, and attraction for a shared committed life together) to the "malebed" of 1cor and 1tim(how can an animate person be transposed for an inanimate object, and how out of all the possible meanings was homosexual the one specific one designated.


jesus said we would recognize them from their fruits............fruits as depicted in fruits of the spirit in gal5.


paul said the things of the sin nature are OBVIOUS......by their very essence, it is self explanatory on how they come against the fruit of the spirit (gal5) and loving ones neighbor as oneself(the summation of all the law)(romans).


what is self evident of the essence of homosexuality that it would come against both of these?

So, as long as you love each other and are kind to each other it is OK? Nope. That is not the correct reading.

It flies in the face of the First Commandment given by God to all of creation: be fruitful and multiply.

Marriage is clearly set forth in the Bible as a man and a woman. Now, Jesus explained that any form of sexual release outside of marriage is a sin. That said, since homosexual unions are not able to join in a lawful sexual relationship, they are sinful.

Why did the old code prohibit it under penalty of death? Paul also lists it as problematic. PLease verify with these verses
Romans 1, Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

In 1 Cor Paul tells us that the unmarried should live alone:i.e. without sexual contact. IF you cannot restrain your desires, marry. Notice,no allowance is made for homosexual activity.

[jay29]

Galatians 5:19-21

19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

[feetxxxl]

Originally Posted by jay29

"And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet." - Romans 1:27

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination." - Leviticus 18:22

"The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so [are] abomination unto the Lord thy God." - Deuteronomy 22:5

"And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet." - Romans 1:27

lust is the antithesis to human bonding. is it your belief that gay relationships are about lust. if that were the case, then they would not be providing loving nurturing homes for raising abandoned and rejected children from heterosexual unions, equal to those of heterosexual married couples. and the sexual intimacy in that relationship would not be enhancing the loving nurturing environment ,which it does otherwise, there would be no equality in nurturing environments.

if it were about lust compared to heterosexuals, homosexuals would be lacking in sectors of society compared to heterosexuals. that is not the case. homosexuals have never been found wanting in any sector of society compared to heterosexuals. they are not less a brother, sister, lawyer, counselor, doctor, pastor, soldier, neighbor, friend etc.

homosexuals bond out of mutual love, respect, devotion, attraction and trust for a committed shared life together the same as heterosexuals.


where there is lust their no human committment. all commitment is to satiating the lust, the other human involved is not for bondiing, but for satiating the lust.


"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination." - Leviticus 18:22

you need to reread what i originally wrote in addition to hebrews 8 where it contrasts the old and new covenants.

[feetxxxl]

Originally Posted by ralphinal

So, as long as you love each other and are kind to each other it is OK? Nope. That is not the correct reading.

It flies in the face of the First Commandment given by God to all of creation: be fruitful and multiply.

Marriage is clearly set forth in the Bible as a man and a woman. Now, Jesus explained that any form of sexual release outside of marriage is a sin. That said, since homosexual unions are not able to join in a lawful sexual relationship, they are sinful.


please read matthew 19:11-12 where it gives dispenasation those other heterosexuals.

"Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given................................The one who can accept this should accept it."


jesus has given an eteral message for all time, that there are those who man woman one flesh bonding has not been given. this is not to be limited with legalities but by the test of the spirit.

you will recognize them by their fruit. for one fruit being the fruit of the spirit (gal5)

do you think that jesus came done to earth to give us another law that we are to die to?(romans)







Why did the old code prohibit it under penalty of death? Paul also lists it as problematic. PLease verify with these verses
Romans 1, Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

numbers 15: 32 While the Israelites were in the desert, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, 34 and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. 35 Then the LORD said to Moses, "The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp." 36 So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the LORD commanded Moses.

today is there anything sinful about household chores or household chores on the sabbath.



In 1 Cor Paul tells us that the unmarried should live alone:i.e. without sexual contact. IF you cannot restrain your desires, marry. Notice,no allowance is made for homosexual activity.

paul says that the reason for marriage is that there is so much immorrality. have you ever heard a priest make that congratulatory comment to nuptials?

paul never specifically details what that immorality is about? do think that cultural beliefs trumps knowledge thru the spirit...........or testing thru witness of spirit.

thess 5:21 says test everything, keep the good.

test in the spirit: "that which we have looked at, which we have seen with our eyes, and our hands have touched."1john1

'if we walk in the light as he is in the light we have fellowship with one another(everyone)"1JOHN1

[feetxxxl]

Originally Posted by jay29

Galatians 5:19-21

19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

what is your explanation for sexual immorality. what is your test. how does it come against loving ones neighbor as oneself( the summation of all the law)( romans). how does it come against the fruit of the spirit, which of itself is spirit .........fruit creating spirit being of god's essence and god's spirit.

[ralphinal]

Originally Posted by feetxxxl

paul says that the reason for marriage is that there is so much immorrality. have you ever heard a priest make that congratulatory comment to nuptials?

paul never specifically details what that immorality is about? do think that cultural beliefs trumps knowledge thru the spirit...........or testing thru witness of spirit.

thess 5:21 says test everything, keep the good.

test in the spirit: "that which we have looked at, which we have seen with our eyes, and our hands have touched."1john1

'if we walk in the light as he is in the light we have fellowship with one another(everyone)"1JOHN1

You totally dodged the rest of my post. Congratulations.

It flies in the face of the First Commandment given by God to all of creation: be fruitful and multiply.

Marriage is clearly set forth in the Bible as a man and a woman. Now, Jesus explained that any form of sexual release outside of marriage is a sin. That said, since homosexual unions are not able to join in a lawful sexual relationship, they are sinful.

Further, you said this:

homosexuals bond out of mutual love, respect, devotion, attraction and trust for a committed shared life together the same as heterosexuals.

I know that tthis is not meant to be a blanket statement. I would be willing to bet that less than 50% of all homosexual unions are long term (over 3 years) and monogamos from day one.

Please adress the fact that God wants creation to be fruitful and multiply and what Jesus said.

[feetxxxl]

why do you put so much emphasis on procreation like it is the be all to end all. god had no problem wiping out an entire world of people at the time of noah, who had multiplied. no only them but every living thing that was of them.

the jews multiplied but god had no problem wiping them out at the seige of jerusalem and in the exile.

even a dog can procreate.

what god is interested in is that hearts that worship him. and homes that provide nurturing and love..................... love that is god.

[lak611]

1Co 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

[jay29]

The Lord YOUR GOD did not create the human race to be homosexual AT ALL.

[teancum79]

feetxxxl has a point I don't recall reading that "homosexuality is a sin" in the Bible. "murder is a sin" "lying is a sin" and many other things are not put in that particular phrase. Its amazing the lengths people will go to to justify their unwillingness to try to live by God's commandments.

[jay29]

St. Paul states it is LUST, which is a DEADLY SIN. "They burned in lust for one another (men for men) It is also an ABOMINATION.

"Any "church" that formally, officially permits or even rejoices in same-sex so-called "marriages" is a man-made temple of narcissism at best or diabolical at worst.."

[jay29]

In addition, it has been condemned in early Church Tradition:

"You shall not be a corrupter of boys, nor like unto such." St. Barnabas ("Epistle of St. Barnabas" c. 70-100 A.D.)

"It is well that they should be cut off from the lusts of the world, since 'every lust wars against the spirit' and 'neither fornicators, nor sodomites will inherit the kingdom of God.'" St. Clement of Rome ("First Epistle To The Corinthians," c. 96 A.D.)

"Some polluted themselves by lying with males. The Greeks, O King, follow debased practices in intercourse with males, or with mothers, sisters, and daughters. Yet, they, in turn impute their monstrous impurity to the Christians." St. Aristides ("Apology," c. 125 A.D.)

"Oh, if placed on that lofty watch-tower, you could gaze into the secret places--if you could open the closed doors of sleeping chambers and recall their dark recesses to the perception of sight--you would behold things done by immodest persons which no chaste eye could look upon; you would see what even to see is a crime; you would see what people embruted with the madness of vice deny that they have done, and yet hasten to do--men with frenzied lusts rushing upon men, doing things which afford no gratification even to those who do them." St. Cyprian of Carthage ("Letters" c. 250 A.D.)

"He who is guilty of unseemliness with males will be under discipline for the same time as adulterers." St. Basil the Great ("Letters" c. 367 A.D.)

"All of these affections [in Rom. 1:26-27] . . . were vile, but chiefly the mad lust after males; for the soul is more the sufferer in sins, and more dishonored than the body in diseases." St. John Chrysostom ("Homilies on Romans" c. 391 A.D.)

"Those shameful acts against nature, such as were committed in Sodom, ought everywhere and always to be detested and punished. If all nations were to do such things, they would be held guilty of the same crime by the law of God, which has not made men so that they should use one another in this way." St. Augustine ("Confessions" c. 400 A.D.)

[joeybaggz]

"believe what you want, but scripture has never declared homosexuality a sin."

Actually, since this is a Catholic forum, the OP is quite right in the above statement. The Catholic Church doesn't declare homosexuality to be a sin. It recognizes homosexual orientation as morally neutral, in the same sense heterosexual orientation is morally neutral. However, homosexual activity, like heterosexual activity, outside of the sacrament of matrimony, is considered sinful.

The Church uses the term, 'disordered'. All activity that is contrary to the manner in which God ordered His creation is an affront to Him.

... Hmmmmm somwhere I hear the word 'fair" in the background of this thread.....

My two cents.