How do you "admonish a sinner" without sounding judgmental?

[newbetx]

Originally Posted by SpiritMeadow

I don't think it's my province whatsoever to say a word. I assume other Catholics know what is allowed and what isn't. If they don't that is a priests or religious's responsibility. You have no idea what may be going on. It's a surefire way to lose a friendship. If you feel she really may not know, then if the right conversation comes up, you might mention it, and go further is she so invites it. If she knows already, then it is simply none of your business. i do not agree with the concept the laity is the policeman of the parish there to alert Father to everything they think they uncover about other's "faithfulness."

I think most people don't understand. They may "know" it's not approved, but not know why and therefore don't think they are bound by it. It's not just that Catholics shouldn't. No one should. Whether they want to believe it or not.

If what I hear is correct, your friend is part of 95% of US Catholics that practice ABC. So it should not be suprising that they would feel this way. That might even be a good way to bring this up. I'd get a copy of The Good News About Sex and Marriage and talk it up. The book turned many (including me) around on this subject!

You also might want to "drop" some stats... like: Those practicing ABC have a 20x higher divorce rate than those using NFP? Why? And then there is the "Contraception: Why Not" reference I'm sure you've seen.

[crenfro]

I wish you could listen to Father Corapi talk on this topic.

If my only choice is to lose a friend vs keep them from being eternally damned, I think I know what I'd need to do...then pray away like St. Monica did.

Then I think I'd have to go to confession because I'm very prone to the sin of rash judgment and I can't trust myself when I get even the slightest bit smug and feeling superior...

[Michael Neal]

post deleted by me, I was in wrong topic

[onmyknees]

Originally Posted by 12Mary12

A tough question, one we all wrestle with.

My first attempt would go like this:

Perhaps you could find an issue on which you and your friend are both in agreement which is also the teaching of the Church. That way you are starting on a positive note. Then go into something you did, or did not do, in your past, which opposed the Church, and in that situation you should not have received communion and how you learned about your mistake later, or "came around" to accepting your decision was contrary to the Church.
Your friend already knows she is going against the Church by using the pill, and in my case, I can find many instances when I was the sinner. Using my own story would be a way of showing my friend that I do not think I am better than she is.

Then end on a positive note. Maybe remind your friend about a funny incident you shared when you were younger, something religious in nature.

If your friend ever wants to talk very directly about this, be honest but humble. Again, as you have already made clear, you don't want to be judgemental. Then, leave it be-not just to preserve the friendship, but so you can be there for her as a silent example of both following the teachings of the Church, and an example of "love the sinner, hate the sin".

I agree with this. I have used it with my good friend who is using abc but I also told her about my past sins with abc. I told her why I felt so sorry now and I explained why the church teaches it is wrong. She still wants to be friends and I have not brought is up again. I just hope and pray for her. I know that it is weighing on her conscience because she has mentioned it to me again.

[Thomas Doubter]

I have to say I agree with this post this I was at church on Sunday and as i was leaving I noticed pinned to the walls at rear the catechist reforms and appalled that we the Laity should be asked to admonish sinners..
Who am I even if forgiven "after all I have done and failed to do" to admonish anyone else.Is Doctrine requiring of us how we should admonish sinners..If I justify or rationalize in the confessional I am not telling the truth I am a hypocrite,and before God .I must attempt to be honest.

What am I to have people who are strangers albeit Christians facing life in our shared fallibly admonished by me..I am not a King,or a Pope,or even a priest with a multitude of fellows at their sides. On my best day, and only with Gods Grace I am the Publican. and I share my relative worth as a christian with my fellow liars who wish to keep their hollow jobs and still not compromise their souls so totally.they can not find them to confess.Very few of us repent in leisure.

Originally Posted by SpiritMeadow

Yep I hear ya. But I've spent too many years in Catholic churches to know that this form of admonishment is not taught from the pulpit. I recall a sister friend of mine saying one of the things she was most proud of in being Catholic is that we attempted to live a Christian life rather than tell others how they should live. That has been my EXCLUSIVE experience in every parish I have attended over the years.

Moreover, Paul's statements are clear in that they delienate that we are all not similarly gifted in the ability to correctly discern or preach. People are trained for this sort of thing. Those without training who step into the breach and try to act as Christian police often drive away people and they certainly cause great dissention within a parish. Most everyone has witnessed this. So i question whether efforts to admonish don't do more harm than good.

And lest we forget the MOST important person of all. Jesus on at least two occasions warned of over zealous admonishment. Cast the first stone when YOU are free of sin, and remove the PLANK from your own eye before attempting to remove the splinter from your brother. I think he may trump any other dogma wouldn't you?

[ebonykawai]

Originally Posted by ForwardProgress

I am a believer that you admonish those you are very close to, like your children...not other friends and associates.

I agree, that's as far as I'll go! God works in all people's lives, it's not my place to try and guess what the best path is for anyone. Only God knows that. We all have our own journey, and sometimes the hot stove is the best teacher. I sure know it was for me.

[livingwordunity]

Originally Posted by sydney28

A friend of mine is "Catholic", but she is not in a sacramental marriage (they were married in a civil ceremony) and she told me that she is on "the pill" to prevent from getting pregnant right now. She and her husband go to mass and both receive communion each week. How do I let her know that she shouldn't be taking communion without coming across as "holier than thou" or ruining our friendship? Or do I even bring it up?

When someone is proud of their sins they will always be offended no matter how softly one tells them of their error. But it's also possible that she could be poorly catechized and not realize that she's doing anything wrong. Maybe you can start with a general question like has she read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. And you can then tell her about how much you like reading that book and then leave the rest up to her. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

[EvelynEVF]

I would be very, very careful about admonishing anyone who was not a very close friend. I have been admonished by people who thought they knew what was going on in my life, but they were dead wrong. It was an extremely painful experience, and when I tried to tell them the true situation, they accused me of making excuses. Friendship over.

My rule is that I would only bring up someone's sin to them if a) I loved them, really loved them, and b) was willing to put a shoulder under their cross. People generally have a reason why they choose sin, and they aren't just going to drop it cold turkey. Sin is often a wrong response to a real problem, and they might need significant help finding an appropriate solution.

I really believe we have to be in it for the long haul if we're going to address issues of sin with other people.

[Brendan]

You admonish the action, not the person.

[Thomas Doubter]

I am sorry Brendan You cannot Admonish a sin you might despise a sin and speak against it lust or greed are pretty good candidates, but you can only admonish the sinner..I would like an explanation of how to do it without being pejorative in the judgement necessary before the action.Most people are mostly ashamed when they sin without being shamed. We are complicit in so much.If I were to tell someone how good a christian they were they would think that it was just me stroking their vanity.I can remember when people would half jokingly say that's very christian of you.and you could think passingly,even unconsciously I hope so..But it is much harder now to compliment a virtue when good people are so powerless before the world.

Admonish Verb:
Warn or reprimand someone firmly.
Advise or urge (someone) earnestly.

Thomas

[Bookcat]

"“Being concerned for each other” also entails being concerned for their spiritual well-being. Here I would like to mention an aspect of the Christian life, which I believe has been quite forgotten: fraternal correction in view of eternal salvation. Today, in general, we are very sensitive to the idea of charity and caring about the physical and material well-being of others, but almost completely silent about our spiritual responsibility towards our brothers and sisters. This was not the case in the early Church or in those communities that are truly mature in faith, those which are concerned not only for the physical health of their brothers and sisters, but also for their spiritual health and ultimate destiny. The Scriptures tell us: “Rebuke the wise and he will love you for it. Be open with the wise, he grows wiser still, teach the upright, he will gain yet more” (Prov 9:8ff). Christ himself commands us to admonish a brother who is committing a sin (cf. Mt 18:15). The verb used to express fraternal correction - elenchein – is the same used to indicate the prophetic mission of Christians to speak out against a generation indulging in evil (cf. Eph 5:11). The Church’s tradition has included “admonishing sinners” among the spiritual works of mercy. It is important to recover this dimension of Christian charity. We must not remain silent before evil. I am thinking of all those Christians who, out of human regard or purely personal convenience, adapt to the prevailing mentality, rather than warning their brothers and sisters against ways of thinking and acting that are contrary to the truth and that do not follow the path of goodness. Christian admonishment, for its part, is never motivated by a spirit of accusation or recrimination. It is always moved by love and mercy, and springs from genuine concern for the good of the other. As the Apostle Paul says: “If one of you is caught doing something wrong, those of you who are spiritual should set that person right in a spirit of gentleness; and watch yourselves that you are not put to the test in the same way” (Gal 6:1). In a world pervaded by individualism, it is essential to rediscover the importance of fraternal correction, so that together we may journey towards holiness. Scripture tells us that even “the upright falls seven times” (Prov 24:16); all of us are weak and imperfect (cf. 1 Jn 1:8). It is a great service, then, to help others and allow them to help us, so that we can be open to the whole truth about ourselves, improve our lives and walk more uprightly in the Lord’s ways. There will always be a need for a gaze which loves and admonishes, which knows and understands, which discerns and forgives (cf. Lk 22:61), as God has done and continues to do with each of us."

--Pope Benedict XVI from message for Lent 2012

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/be...t-2012_en.html

also see this:

http://forums.catholic.com/showpost....45&postcount=3






But I see this is an old thread.. --not May 2012.

[Catholic80]

Originally Posted by sydney28

A friend of mine is "Catholic", but she is not in a sacramental marriage (they were married in a civil ceremony) and she told me that she is on "the pill" to prevent from getting pregnant right now. She and her husband go to mass and both receive communion each week. How do I let her know that she shouldn't be taking communion without coming across as "holier than thou" or ruining our friendship? Or do I even bring it up?

The only reason you might bring it up is if she doesn't know what she is doing is wrong. Most people, however, know that it is wrong and against Church teaching. In this case, if she is in full knowledge, then what really, does it serve by bringing it up? If she knows what she is doing is wrong, then she is responsible. If she doesn't know what she is doing is wrong, then you do (I believe) have an obligation to inform her.

You might want to talk to a priest about this. He would be the more appropriate person to have a discussion with them.

[Zosimus41]

Originally Posted by sydney28

A friend of mine is "Catholic", but she is not in a sacramental marriage (they were married in a civil ceremony) and she told me that she is on "the pill" to prevent from getting pregnant right now. She and her husband go to mass and both receive communion each week. How do I let her know that she shouldn't be taking communion without coming across as "holier than thou" or ruining our friendship? Or do I even bring it up?

Sadley you have just discribed more than a half of the catholic population.

Ever wonder why the WHOLE congregation gets up and goes to communion? Are you to believe noone is with mortal sins in this day and age? or perhaps a lot of folks have lost the truth about the Eucharist and cherry pick the rules they want to follow as long as it doesnt get in the way of the lifestyle they choose to live.

A lot of folks will have a rude awakening one day when they find out Jesus is a judge and for that justice must prevail...Not everyone who says to Me,'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day,'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them,'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'[Matt. 7:21-23].

You see Jesus is the judge of mankind. He is not politically correct, He is not democratic,and
He did not pay for our sins so we can sin


Heres a partial article taken from the Washington Post

Catholics caught between bishops, Obama’s birth control mandate

even though 82 percent of American Catholics believe that birth control is morally acceptable, Cardinal Timothy Dolan, who is president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, called the lawsuits “a compelling display of the unity of the church in defense of religious liberty.” (The USCCB is not a party to the suits.)

By Lisa Miller, Published: May 24

[Zosimus41]

Originally Posted by sydney28

A friend of mine is "Catholic", but she is not in a sacramental marriage (they were married in a civil ceremony) and she told me that she is on "the pill" to prevent from getting pregnant right now. She and her husband go to mass and both receive communion each week. How do I let her know that she shouldn't be taking communion without coming across as "holier than thou" or ruining our friendship? Or do I even bring it up?

I also add people would rather hear something beautiful and not the truth.
Youll find the truth is most unwelcome.

O Attic shape! Fair attitude! with brede
Of marble men and maidens overwrought,
With forest branches and the trodden weed;
Thou, silent form, dost tease us out of thought
As doth eternity. Cold Pastoral!
When old age shall this generation waste,
Thou shalt remain, in midst of other woe
Than ours, a friend to man, to whom thou say'st,
"Beauty is truth, truth beauty"---that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.


Keates

[Thomas Doubter]

This is to be taught. One might presume to children so I see this as important issue.pulling up others for sinning is maybe ten years to pulling up parents in those rebellious years.So this seems like a reasonable Question if you don't want the fancy dancing done Ad Hoc.