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  #1  
Old May 22, '08, 5:11 am
jkenn337 jkenn337 is offline
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Default Adam and Eve and the first people

Hello,
I've got a very interesting question that I thought of. When Adam and Eve were first created, they had Cane and Abel. So if that small family of four was the first four people to inhabit the earth, that means in order to make more people there would have had to be incest or Cane and Abel performing incest to make more people? Or, since Adam and Eve lived significantly longer than we live today, perhaps they were able to have way many more children than we do today? But in either case, since they were the first people, speaking from a scientific standpoint, the gene-pool would have been very small causing problems with future children/people. Or, did God make the Genes of Adam and Eve very different from each other so that because he knew they would have to at least temporarily in-breed or reproduce have children with other family members, the gene pool would be wide and no problems would occur? It seems the only way God could have let or enabled life to continue would have been if he made the genes of the first people very different from one person to the next. like Adam's genes would have been very different than Eve's genes and their children would be different as well. So does this also mean that Adam and Eve's children looked nothing like their parents which were Adam and Eve?
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  #2  
Old May 22, '08, 5:42 am
Pious Pious is offline
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Default Re: Adam and Eve and the first people

Hi,

Have a read from this creationist web site; it is not a Catholic site, but has some good answers.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...was-cains-wife

Read the whole page.
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  #3  
Old May 22, '08, 6:18 am
1ke 1ke is offline
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Default Re: Adam and Eve and the first people

The Church teaches that Adam and Eve are our literal first parents-- mongenesis. We are not free to believe in polygenesis.

Adam and Eve's children married each other and beget more children. Cain and Abel were not Adam and Eve's only children. Cain, Abel, and Seth are merely the three children of Adam and Eve called by name in the Bible. We do not know how many they had.

The Church has no teaching regarding the scientific make-up of Adam and Eve's genes/DNA. That is science, which the Church makes not doctrinal statements pertaining to.

The papal encyclical Humani Generis covers this subject.
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  #4  
Old May 22, '08, 6:41 am
anna1978 anna1978 is offline
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Default Re: Adam and Eve and the first people

Hmm...so if we 'have to believe' (unlike the Jews who believe Adam had a 'first wife' before Eve) everybody is from Adam and Eve, logic states that their sons and daughters had to sleep together to produce the next generation, and it would have taken a good few generations before you could stop calling it incest...also, it would mean all 'peoples' (Samaritan, Egyptians, Romans etc) all came from Adam and Eve too...so why is God then 'the God of Abram, Isaac and Jacob' (i.e. the Jews) and not of all the other peoples and tribes...I'd like a really good well thought answer on this, because I read what the Vatican said and it doesn't explain this problem at all
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  #5  
Old May 22, '08, 6:59 am
1ke 1ke is offline
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Default Re: Adam and Eve and the first people

Quote:
Originally Posted by anna1978 View Post
Hmm...so if we 'have to believe' (unlike the Jews who believe Adam had a 'first wife' before Eve) everybody is from Adam and Eve, logic states that their sons and daughters had to sleep together to produce the next generation, and it would have taken a good few generations before you could stop calling it incest...
"The Jews" do not believe Adam had a wife before Eve.

Intermarriage of relatives is not problematic regarding the descent of the human race from Adam and Eve. Only relations in the direct line are divinely prohibited. Not the collateral line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anna1978 View Post
also, it would mean all 'peoples' (Samaritan, Egyptians, Romans etc) all came from Adam and Eve too...
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anna1978 View Post
so why is God then 'the God of Abram, Isaac and Jacob' (i.e. the Jews) and not of all the other peoples and tribes...I'd like a really good well thought answer on this, because I read what the Vatican said and it doesn't explain this problem at all
I'm not sure why this is problematic for you.

The Salvation story gives us the answer. After sin entered the world, human intellect and will were darkened. Peoples forgot the one true God and replaced Him with worship of false deities. God chose Abraham, made a covenant with him, and revealed himself to bring people out of their false worship. He chose Abraham and through his descendants brought Salvation to the whole world.
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  #6  
Old May 22, '08, 9:00 am
Vanny Vanny is offline
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Default Re: Adam and Eve and the first people

Here's another good explanation- also from an evangelical site.
Also, read the whole page. I especially like the population chart that was done.
http://www.reasons.org/resources/apo...ainswife.shtml
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  #7  
Old May 22, '08, 10:25 am
pprimeau1976 pprimeau1976 is offline
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Default Re: Adam and Eve and the first people

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkenn337 View Post
Hello,
I've got a very interesting question that I thought of. When Adam and Eve were first created, they had Cane and Abel. So if that small family of four was the first four people to inhabit the earth, that means in order to make more people there would have had to be incest or Cane and Abel performing incest to make more people? Or, since Adam and Eve lived significantly longer than we live today, perhaps they were able to have way many more children than we do today? But in either case, since they were the first people, speaking from a scientific standpoint, the gene-pool would have been very small causing problems with future children/people. Or, did God make the Genes of Adam and Eve very different from each other so that because he knew they would have to at least temporarily in-breed or reproduce have children with other family members, the gene pool would be wide and no problems would occur? It seems the only way God could have let or enabled life to continue would have been if he made the genes of the first people very different from one person to the next. like Adam's genes would have been very different than Eve's genes and their children would be different as well. So does this also mean that Adam and Eve's children looked nothing like their parents which were Adam and Eve?
Cain did not have to commit incest with either his mother or a sister in order to produce offspring. The Bible implies that there were other people at the time of Cain. If you look at Genesis 4:13-16, when God punishes Cain, Cain is afraid that others may kill him:
Quote:
Cain said to the LORD: "My punishment is too great to bear. Since you have now banished me from the soil, and I must avoid your presence and become a restless wanderer on the earth, anyone may kill me at sight."

Not so!" the LORD said to him. "If anyone kills Cain, Cain shall be avenged sevenfold." So the LORD put a mark on Cain, lest anyone should kill him at sight.

Cain then left the LORD'S presence and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden.
Some may say that this is overreaching, but then ask yourself why would Cain be so fearful if the only people left on the earth were himself, Adam, and Eve?
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  #8  
Old May 22, '08, 11:10 am
1ke 1ke is offline
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Default Re: Adam and Eve and the first people

Quote:
Originally Posted by pprimeau1976 View Post
Cain did not have to commit incest with either his mother or a sister in order to produce offspring. The Bible implies that there were other people at the time of Cain.
This is not consistent with monogenesis. Polygenism is condemned as incompatible with the Catholic faith (see the link to Humani Generis).
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ke's universal disclaimer: In my posts, when I post about marriage, canon law, or sacraments I am talking about Latin Rite only, not the Orthodox and Eastern Rites. These are exceptions that confuse the issue and I am not talking about those.
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  #9  
Old May 22, '08, 1:28 pm
tonyl tonyl is offline
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Default Re: Adam and Eve and the first people

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ke View Post
This is not consistent with monogenesis. Polygenism is condemned as incompatible with the Catholic faith (see the link to Humani Generis).
Not necessarily. Humani Generis states: "For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains that either after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parent of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. "

Assuming the translation conveys the intended meaning, this does not remove the possibility that Adam was the common ancestor of all "true men" and all currently existing people, but that there were inter-fertile beings who were not "true men" that still interbred with and contributed to the genetic makeup of all existing people.

Of course, unless or until the church decides to say more on this, we just have to reconcile doctrine and physical evidence as best we can, and my speculations on whether something is consistent with Humani Generis is just that, speculation.
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  #10  
Old May 22, '08, 1:53 pm
sallybranwyn sallybranwyn is offline
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Default Re: Adam and Eve and the first people

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ke View Post
"The Jews" do not believe Adam had a wife before Eve.

.
The OP is likely referring to Lilith.
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  #11  
Old May 22, '08, 2:04 pm
pprimeau1976 pprimeau1976 is offline
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Default Re: Adam and Eve and the first people

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyl View Post
Not necessarily. Humani Generis states: "For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains that either after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parent of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. "

Assuming the translation conveys the intended meaning, this does not remove the possibility that Adam was the common ancestor of all "true men" and all currently existing people, but that there were inter-fertile beings who were not "true men" that still interbred with and contributed to the genetic makeup of all existing people.

Of course, unless or until the church decides to say more on this, we just have to reconcile doctrine and physical evidence as best we can, and my speculations on whether something is consistent with Humani Generis is just that, speculation.
Exactly. As I have said before, Adam was the first human being, but he may not have been the first homo-sapiens.
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  #12  
Old May 22, '08, 3:48 pm
1ke 1ke is offline
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Default Re: Adam and Eve and the first people

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyl View Post
Not necessarily. Humani Generis states: "For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains that either after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parent of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. "

Assuming the translation conveys the intended meaning, this does not remove the possibility that Adam was the common ancestor of all "true men" and all currently existing people, but that there were inter-fertile beings who were not "true men" that still interbred with and contributed to the genetic makeup of all existing people.

Of course, unless or until the church decides to say more on this, we just have to reconcile doctrine and physical evidence as best we can, and my speculations on whether something is consistent with Humani Generis is just that, speculation.
The other poster stated this, "The Bible implies that there were other people at the time of Cain."

This is incompatible with Church teaching.
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ke's universal disclaimer: In my posts, when I post about marriage, canon law, or sacraments I am talking about Latin Rite only, not the Orthodox and Eastern Rites. These are exceptions that confuse the issue and I am not talking about those.
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  #13  
Old May 22, '08, 3:50 pm
1ke 1ke is offline
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Default Re: Adam and Eve and the first people

Quote:
Originally Posted by sallybranwyn View Post
The OP is likely referring to Lilith.
Yes, I am familiar with the myth of Lilith. This is folklore, NOT Jewish teaching.
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Pax, ke

ke's universal disclaimer: In my posts, when I post about marriage, canon law, or sacraments I am talking about Latin Rite only, not the Orthodox and Eastern Rites. These are exceptions that confuse the issue and I am not talking about those.
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  #14  
Old May 22, '08, 4:26 pm
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LilyM LilyM is offline
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Default Re: Adam and Eve and the first people

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ke View Post
The other poster stated this, "The Bible implies that there were other people at the time of Cain."

This is incompatible with Church teaching.
Exactly - 'other people' who may want to kill Cain were other relatives - other children or other descendants of Adam and Eve. Strangers presumably wouldn't know what Cain had done and would have no reason to kill him.

The Bible doesn't say how old Adam and Eve or their children were, there could've been boatloads of kids, grandkids and so on.
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  #15  
Old May 22, '08, 5:44 pm
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
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Default Re: Adam and Eve and the first people

The Bible does say:

"And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died." Genesis 5:5





God bless,
Ed
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