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  #1  
Old May 22, '08, 12:54 pm
MindOverMatter MindOverMatter is offline
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Default Is Paul Tillich Catholic or acceptable? Who is Hans Kung?

I came across a book called the eternal now. Its by Paul Tillich.
Is he good? Whats his position and do you agree with it?

Who is Huns kung?
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  #2  
Old May 22, '08, 1:02 pm
Contarini Contarini is offline
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Default Re: Is Paul Tillich Catholic or acceptable? Who is Hans Kung?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MindOverMatter View Post
I came across a book called the eternal now. Its by Paul Tillich.
Is he good? Whats his position and do you agree with it?

Who is Huns kung?
Paul Tillich was a Protestant theologian. I have read very little of his work, in large part because what I know of it inclines me to think that he exemplifies the worst aspects of liberal Protestantism. (His "Protestant principle" is worth knowing about, because it essentially encapsulates what most Catholics on this forum think about Protestantism, except that Tillich thought it was a healthy and positive thing!) I keep telling myself that I should read more so that I can make a more informed critique, but so far I have not done so. There's just too much Aquinas to read--why waste time on Tillich!

Kung is a Catholic theologian--well, to be precise he's a Catholic who is a theologian, but has for several decades not been allowed to teach in a Catholic theological faculty because of what the Magisterium considers his unorthodox views. He's most [in]famous for denying papal infallibility, but from my perspective as an Anglican that is naturally the least of his errors. Again, I'm not deeply familiar with his work, but the descriptions I've read do not greatly impress me. I have read that he's done good work on apologetics (general apologetics concerning the existence of God and things like that).

Edwin
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  #3  
Old May 22, '08, 5:12 pm
Gottle of Geer Gottle of Geer is offline
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Default Re: Is Paul Tillich Catholic or acceptable? Who is Hans Kung?

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Originally Posted by Contarini View Post
Paul Tillich was a Protestant theologian. I have read very little of his work, in large part because what I know of it inclines me to think that he exemplifies the worst aspects of liberal Protestantism. (His "Protestant principle" is worth knowing about, because it essentially encapsulates what most Catholics on this forum think about Protestantism, except that Tillich thought it was a healthy and positive thing!) I keep telling myself that I should read more so that I can make a more informed critique, but so far I have not done so. There's just too much Aquinas to read--why waste time on Tillich!

Kung is a Catholic theologian--well, to be precise he's a Catholic who is a theologian, but has for several decades not been allowed to teach in a Catholic theological faculty because of what the Magisterium considers his unorthodox views. He's most [in]famous for denying papal infallibility, but from my perspective as an Anglican that is naturally the least of his errors. Again, I'm not deeply familiar with his work, but the descriptions I've read do not greatly impress me. I have read that he's done good work on apologetics (general apologetics concerning the existence of God and things like that).

Edwin
## I think you're being very hard on Tillich - though I've not read him at all Aquinas is a bit arid for my liking; the Puritans, OTOH... And if any one has a spare copy of Rudolf Bultmann's Commentary on the Gospel of John...

Anyway, here's "The Eternal Now":
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  #4  
Old May 23, '08, 12:35 pm
MindOverMatter MindOverMatter is offline
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Default Re: Is Paul Tillich Catholic or acceptable? Who is Hans Kung?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gottle of Geer View Post
## [b][color=darkred]

Aquinas is a bit arid for my liking
In my book, although his work is difficult to read, Aquinas is a theological genius. Thats all i got to say about that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gottle of Geer View Post
## the Puritans, OTOH...
Whats that got to do with anything? What is a puritan anyway


Anyway, here's "The Eternal Now":[/quote]
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  #5  
Old May 23, '08, 1:19 pm
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SpiritMeadow SpiritMeadow is offline
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Default Re: Is Paul Tillich Catholic or acceptable? Who is Hans Kung?

It is not a matter of acceptablility. The Church does not forbid any theology as far as I know of or any theologian. You are a human being living in a free country. You may read whatever you like. Some of Kung material is not acceptable to the Church at this time. Tillich is not Catholic but his work is taught in Catholic institutions of higher learning as is Kungs.
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  #6  
Old May 23, '08, 2:43 pm
Contarini Contarini is offline
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Default Re: Is Paul Tillich Catholic or acceptable? Who is Hans Kung?

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Originally Posted by Gottle of Geer View Post
## I think you're being very hard on Tillich - though I've not read him at all


Then you are just slightly less qualified to defend him than I to attack him

Quote:
Aquinas is a bit arid for my liking; the Puritans, OTOH...


To each his own. I like the Puritans, but I find them excessively wordy. Aquinas can say more in less space than any writer I know.

Edwin
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  #7  
Old May 23, '08, 4:11 pm
MindOverMatter MindOverMatter is offline
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Default Re: Is Paul Tillich Catholic or acceptable? Who is Hans Kung?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiritMeadow View Post
It is not a matter of acceptablility. .

Are you saying that theology cannot contradict Catholic Teaching?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiritMeadow View Post
The Church does not forbid any theology as far as I know of or any theologian. .

The Church doesn't forbid solo-scriptura?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiritMeadow View Post
You are a human being living in a free country. .

I disagree. My country practices abortion. True freedom is God. Human freedom, as in, to do what we want or what the state wants, is an illusion. It is slavery, unless it is Gods word and will. I do not associate Gods words with the rulings or authority of any country that i happen to live in. I do not understand why some Christians are so defensive of America, as if it is Gods Country; holy land?

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Originally Posted by SpiritMeadow View Post
You may read whatever you like. .

I agree. But thats not the point of the thread. I asked if tilliches theology was capatable/acceptable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiritMeadow View Post
Some of Kung material is not acceptable to the Church at this time. .

This looks like a contradiction. I thought you said that the Church does not forbid any theology?


Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiritMeadow View Post
Tillich is not Catholic but his work is taught in Catholic institutions of higher learning as is Kungs.
The Catholic Church might anaylse different theology and make comparisons and critical evaluations, but thats different from saying that something is compatible or acceptable.
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  #8  
Old May 23, '08, 5:36 pm
dessert dessert is offline
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Default Re: Is Paul Tillich Catholic or acceptable? Who is Hans Kung?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MindOverMatter View Post
In my book, although his work is difficult to read, Aquinas is a theological genius. Thats all i got to say about that.



Whats that got to do with anything? What is a puritan anyway
A Puritan ah What how dare you laugh No smiling and don't get to excited it might make me emotional and happy where I want to be serious because everything else is frivleous.that is a puritan.


Anyway, here's "The Eternal Now":
[/quote]
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  #9  
Old Mar 11, '11, 2:55 pm
Dear God Dear God is offline
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Default Re: Is Paul Tillich Catholic or acceptable? Who is Hans Kung?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MindOverMatter View Post
I came across a book called the eternal now. Its by Paul Tillich.
Is he good? Whats his position and do you agree with it?

Who is Huns kung?
I did an internet search for Tillich and Catholicism and came up with this forum's link. Given that I'm responding to a 2008 posting, I doubt that others will follow but here is my two cents worth.

I highly recommend Tillich and he has many books and there are many critical papers on him. Tillich can be considered as the beginning of what is classified as liberal theology. Note that there is a difference as to what one is speaking of when regards to theology and Christianity. Tillich is hard to read and I recommend his various books regarding specific issues. As one begins to understand each issue, not that you have to agree with his thesis, you will begin to understand how he writes and you may find his Systematic Theology easier to read. Tillich is like Aquinas in his writing. His theology is very philosophical, and therefore explained very concisely. This is when one begins to understand Tillich, when one understands his way of writing. Tillich writes from history (Christian Thought is a book of Tillich's), from psychology and as I said from philosophy. Which means that 1 + 1 = 2. He writes in truths. His writing is systematically the laying out of truths as history knows truths. This understanding of Tillich's writing makes understanding Tillich much easier.

Another post in this forum stated that Tillich imparts what Protestantism is about. Wrong, at least from the standpoint that what most Catholics understand of Protestantism is not Tillich's theology. Tillich's theology is largely rejected by most understanding of Protestants. Fact is most Christians fail to understand their own religion let alone another's religion. For the most part, Christians, whether Catholic or Protestant, have no more than an opinion regarding other denominations.

I said I highly recommend Tillich. Tillich will establish meaning and definition of Christian symbolism. He will also establish a new symbolism because what once was understood now no longer is understood and needs a new meaning to reestablish the original sense of the Christian symbol. What comes to mind is Christian understanding of spirit. Tillich is a good learning tool to regain the historical perspective of Christianity.

Search any topic combined with Tillich and you will find some critical thought to read. This would be a most certain learning experience for any Christian.
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  #10  
Old Mar 11, '11, 3:09 pm
Windfish Windfish is offline
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Default Re: Is Paul Tillich Catholic or acceptable? Who is Hans Kung?

MindOverMatter, did you got those links I sent you to Catholic-Productions? They contain full-class length worth of lectures from Catholic scholars on Scripture. WONDERFUL way to get started on Scripture. Here is the link for anyone interested:

http://www.catholic-productions.com/

Will TREMENDOUSLY help your apologetics, trust me.
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  #11  
Old Mar 28, '11, 4:54 pm
John21652 John21652 is offline
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Default Re: Is Paul Tillich Catholic or acceptable? Who is Hans Kung?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dear God View Post
I did an internet search for Tillich and Catholicism and came up with this forum's link. Given that I'm responding to a 2008 posting, I doubt that others will follow but here is my two cents worth.
Awww, DeeGee, you've come back for more!!

Now why did you tell us you did an Internet search for Tillich and Catholicism? We all know how you tried to ram Tillich's version of Protestantism down our throats in another thread very recently. Didn't you DeeGee? That thread got taken down. Just as well, because it contained so much heresy.

Quote:
I highly recommend Tillich and he has many books and there are many critical papers on him.
No wonder there are so many 'critical papers' on him. Considering how he had a difficult upbringing which influenced his beliefs and writings.
Quote:
Tillich can be considered as the beginning of what is classified as liberal theology.
Liberal Theology?!! You mean a self indulgent, relativistic theory on how to please yourself and God all at the same time?
Quote:
Note that there is a difference as to what one is speaking of when regards to theology and Christianity.
Well, DeeGee, another of your asinine sentences that needs interpreting. If my interpretation of this one is correct, you are telling us that theology is different from Christianity......




Quote:
Tillich is hard to read and I recommend his various books regarding specific issues.
Tillich hard to read?! You are kidding me, right? He is easy to read, but his message is confusing and that might be what you are referring to. That is not surprising really, because Tillich himself was confused.
Quote:
As one begins to understand each issue, not that you have to agree with his thesis, you will begin to understand how he writes and you may find his Systematic Theology easier to read. Tillich is like Aquinas in his writing.
Oh DeeGee, now I know you are joshing. Tillich doesn't come anywhere near Aquinas. Aquinas is leagues ahead of Tillich in substance, style, erudition, scope and originality. Besides, Aquinas knew exactly what he believed in. Tillich didn't.


Quote:
His theology is very philosophical, and therefore explained very concisely. This is when one begins to understand Tillich, when one understands his way of writing. Tillich writes from history (Christian Thought is a book of Tillich's), from psychology and as I said from philosophy. Which means that 1 + 1 = 2. He writes in truths. His writing is systematically the laying out of truths as history knows truths. This understanding of Tillich's writing makes understanding Tillich much easier.
Well, you don't seem to understand Tillich very well. In that last thread you never did explain how Tillich kept saying he was intellectually attracted to Catholicism and why he stated, in his own words, that Protestanism could never survive without the core system of Catholicism. He accepted that the 'Protestant Principle' was deeply flawed.

Quote:
Another post in this forum stated that Tillich imparts what Protestantism is about. Wrong, at least from the standpoint that what most Catholics understand of Protestantism is not Tillich's theology. Tillich's theology is largely rejected by most understanding of Protestants. Fact is most Christians fail to understand their own religion let alone another's religion. For the most part, Christians, whether Catholic or Protestant, have no more than an opinion regarding other denominations.
Oh my DeeGee, what sweeping statements! Of course you have here adopted the typical intellectual position of the moral and intellectual relativist (excuse the oxymoron) by telling us that anyone who responds to you will only be expressing an opinion.

Well guess what DeeGee. Some of us have informed opinions. Here's mine - In the last thread where you bombarded us with quote after quote from Tillich, I pointed out the inherent problem with Tillich's position because it embraced the problem of Antinomianism. Antinomianism is heretical to Catholic Church teachings and dogma. No ifs, buts or maybes. You failed to address this issue despite repeated requests on that last thread.

Quote:
I said I highly recommend Tillich. Tillich will establish meaning and definition of Christian symbolism. He will also establish a new symbolism because what once was understood now no longer is understood and needs a new meaning to reestablish the original sense of the Christian symbol. What comes to mind is Christian understanding of spirit. Tillich is a good learning tool to regain the historical perspective of Christianity.
Oh give us a break DeeGee. Please. We have well established and well recognised Christian symbols. Tillich was a confused thinker who had one foot in the Catholic Church and one foot out. The only reason he didn't convert was because of his experiences having a strict father and of being bought up in strict Prussian society.
Quote:
Search any topic combined with Tillich and you will find some critical thought to read. This would be a most certain learning experience for any Christian.
Go and read the Catechism instead. It's far more educational. And, of course, for really good philosophical insights and particularly in relation to the Natural Law, which underpins Catholicism, read Aquinas. His influence on western thought has been immense. Not like Tillich, whose theology DeeGee tells us is "...largely rejected by most understanding of Protestants."
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  #12  
Old Dec 5, '11, 4:38 pm
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theidler theidler is offline
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Default Re: Is Paul Tillich Catholic or acceptable? Who is Hans Kung?

I find Paul Tillich to be a very good Protestant theologian. Obviously, for Catholics and Orthodox, he is not going to be in agreement. But as a Protestant thinker, I think he has very much to say. As an existentialist, I find him to be exceptional - he cured all the woes I suffered from reading Sartre.
As for Kung, I simply do not understand why he remains Catholic, or why he is one in the first place, as it seems that all his theology is directed as a critique against the Church. He seems to be more for a reader wanting to fuel their own ideas of dissent, rather than a serious theologian.
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