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  #1  
Old May 31, '08, 8:51 am
PePPaR PePPaR is offline
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Default Faults in Catholic Teaching?

I go to a Catholic School and I'm quite thankful for that.

But there is so much contradiction is ridiculous.

I'm only new to this forum but I've seen constantly here that masturbation is regarded as a mortal sin. I knew it was a sin but I didn't know it was such a 'grave' matter. Anyway, in Sexual Education at school one year - we watched a video which stated 'masturbation is a completely normal and natural thing'. However my school is Catholic and yet they showed this video to the students for education...

And another time the teachers were speaking of alcohol and its effects on people. Moreover they did not look at the fact that heavy drinking and getting drunk is a sin. Yet teachers were joking at the matter as if its a normal part of life. "Oh so what kind fo stuff do you guys drink on weekends?" - Remember the majority of people in the school are under age. One kid replies, "yeah man I get sloshed every weekend". And the teacher just laughs and does not address the fact of its sinful nature.

Also. I've read around here that taking Eucharist WHILST in a state of mortal sin is bad...Could someone please explain why this is so?

And I'll address a fact in relation to the taking of Eucharist whilst in mortal sin: At my school we have constant rituals and ceremonies and hold masses for the whole school - in which everyone recieves communion. However, even though my school is Catholic the majority of students really aren't that 'Christ-like'. The majority aren't...and some aren't even Christian. And since the school is a boy school, out of estimation I'd say around 65% or more masturbate on a REGULAR basis. And these people will not attend confession often - IF EVER (We have one day per year where we confess to a priest however). The school oblates would surely know such facts about life. Yet they still ISSUE communion? WHY?

So why...if such moral issues are so ethical and important in Christianity - why are they somewhat ignored and contradicted in todays teachings?

Last edited by PePPaR; May 31, '08 at 9:10 am.
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  #2  
Old May 31, '08, 9:28 am
thistle thistle is offline
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Default Re: Faults in Catholic Teaching?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PePPaR View Post
I go to a Catholic School and I'm quite thankful for that.

But there is so much contradiction is ridiculous.

I'm only new to this forum but I've seen constantly here that masturbation is regarded as a mortal sin. I knew it was a sin but I didn't know it was such a 'grave' matter. Anyway, in Sexual Education at school one year - we watched a video which stated 'masturbation is a completely normal and natural thing'. However my school is Catholic and yet they showed this video to the students for education...

And another time the teachers were speaking of alcohol and its effects on people. Moreover they did not look at the fact that heavy drinking and getting drunk is a sin. Yet teachers were joking at the matter as if its a normal part of life. "Oh so what kind fo stuff do you guys drink on weekends?" - Remember the majority of people in the school are under age. One kid replies, "yeah man I get sloshed every weekend". And the teacher just laughs and does not address the fact of its sinful nature.

Also. I've read around here that taking Eucharist WHILST in a state of mortal sin is bad...Could someone please explain why this is so?

And I'll address a fact in relation to the taking of Eucharist whilst in mortal sin: At my school we have constant rituals and ceremonies and hold masses for the whole school - in which everyone recieves communion. However, even though my school is Catholic the majority of students really aren't that 'Christ-like'. The majority aren't...and some aren't even Christian. And since the school is a boy school, out of estimation I'd say around 65% or more masturbate on a REGULAR basis. And these people will not attend confession often - IF EVER (We have one day per year where we confess to a priest however). The school oblates would surely know such facts about life. Yet they still ISSUE communion? WHY?

So why...if such moral issues are so ethical and important in Christianity - why are they somewhat ignored and contradicted in todays teachings?

Receiving the Eucharist while in a state of mortal sin is sacrilege.

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

CCC 2120 Sacrilege consists in profaning or treating unworthily the sacraments and other liturgical actions, as well as persons, things, or places consecrated to God. Sacrilege is a grave sin especially when committed against the Eucharist, for in this sacrament the true Body of Christ is made substantially present for us.

Scripture:

1 Corinthians 11:27-29
Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord.
A person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup.
For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment 14 on himself.

Masturbation is a grave sin.

CCC 2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action." "The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose." For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."
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  #3  
Old May 31, '08, 9:34 am
bugz2007 bugz2007 is offline
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Default Re: Faults in Catholic Teaching?

I would blame a lot of what is happening in your school on the fact that we are all human. Also, oftentimes in Catholic schools of our times, not all staff believes all Catholic teaching or, in some cases, is even Catholic. When you consider that many many Catholics reject much of what the Catholic Church actually teaches (birth control, anyone?), you're going to be hard pressed to find a situation where Catholic teaching is communicated perfectly.

What you are witnessing in your situation are not faults in Catholic teaching, but faults in individual people who are failing to follow or communicate Truth correctly. The teachings themselves are very clear.
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  #4  
Old May 31, '08, 9:37 am
PePPaR PePPaR is offline
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Default Re: Faults in Catholic Teaching?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bugz2007 View Post
I would blame a lot of what is happening in your school on the fact that we are all human. Also, oftentimes in Catholic schools of our times, not all staff believes all Catholic teaching or, in some cases, is even Catholic. When you consider that many many Catholics reject much of what the Catholic Church actually teaches (birth control, anyone?), you're going to be hard pressed to find a situation where Catholic teaching is communicated perfectly.

What you are witnessing in your situation are not faults in Catholic teaching, but faults in individual people who are failing to follow or communicate Truth correctly. The teachings themselves are very clear.
But it's the priests and oblates in my school who organize the masses for us. The teachers assit helping, but really everything is done by the priests. I think they should know perfectly well what they are doing and aren't blindly making a mistake.
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  #5  
Old May 31, '08, 9:43 am
disciple68 disciple68 is offline
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Default Re: Faults in Catholic Teaching?

PePPaR, I think u need 2 see the difference between being instructed in the truth and being instructed by fools. Seems 2 me ur school has a serious problem with its staff. They may be "teaching" u the correct dogmas and traditions. But if they themselves fail 2 follow them, why should ur fellow students do the same?
Obviously ur a very perceptive young person. I applaud u 4 trying 2 do the right thing. I wish I was more like u 2b honest.
Just remember filter out their bad examples, and stick 2 the true teachings. Use our Lord as ur example not, the "faulty faculty" of ur "school".
Sorry about the bad humor
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  #6  
Old May 31, '08, 9:46 am
bugz2007 bugz2007 is offline
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Default Re: Faults in Catholic Teaching?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PePPaR View Post
But it's the priests and oblates in my school who organize the masses for us. The teachers assit helping, but really everything is done by the priests. I think they should know perfectly well what they are doing and aren't blindly making a mistake.
The mistake being to give the Eucharist to students who are probably in a state of mortal sin? I don't know that a priest can be held responsible for other people's sin. Not to say a priest can't be making mistakes, either. We look to them for guidance, but they wouldn't be changing Catholic teaching just because they are not following it, either.
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  #7  
Old May 31, '08, 9:53 am
PePPaR PePPaR is offline
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Default Re: Faults in Catholic Teaching?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bugz2007 View Post
The mistake being to give the Eucharist to students who are probably in a state of mortal sin? I don't know that a priest can be held responsible for other people's sin. Not to say a priest can't be making mistakes, either. We look to them for guidance, but they wouldn't be changing Catholic teaching just because they are not following it, either.
Exactly. It's not up to the priest to make sure that someone has fully confessed their sins and is ready to take communion. That is the persons responsibility.

But in my school, students are not given the opportunity to even know they are committing sacrilige. We have never even been taught about sacrilige...

One week ago we had a mass. And it is expected that ALL students accept the Eucharist - even those who are not Catholic.

I mean...please...isn't there something wrong here?
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  #8  
Old May 31, '08, 9:55 am
bugz2007 bugz2007 is offline
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Default Re: Faults in Catholic Teaching?

If all students are being expected to received the Eucharist, regardless of their state of sin or religion, then yes, I would say there is a serious problem. Is this a voiced expectation or do you just feel expected?
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  #9  
Old May 31, '08, 10:07 am
PePPaR PePPaR is offline
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Default Re: Faults in Catholic Teaching?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bugz2007 View Post
If all students are being expected to received the Eucharist, regardless of their state of sin or religion, then yes, I would say there is a serious problem. Is this a voiced expectation or do you just feel expected?
Admitance to my College goes as follows:
* You will be accepted into the College as long as you abide to learn about Catholicism and take part in the sacramental ceremonies. However, the majority of the School is Catholic.

When we have a Mass the priest will usually state, "Ok, receiving of the Eucharist will go as follows. People from this row will come up first and then that row..." etc etc.

There priests never states something like, "Those wishing not take the Eucharist can receive a blessing".

Anyway, it should be the responsibility of the priests to ensure that WE know that we might be commiting the sin of sacrilige. And yet, in a Catholic school, we have never been even given the indication of this.

Last edited by PePPaR; May 31, '08 at 10:17 am.
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  #10  
Old May 31, '08, 10:15 am
Arrowood Arrowood is offline
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Default Re: Faults in Catholic Teaching?

I taught for ten years in a Catholic school. It was a pretty good Catholic school, but we still had similar problems with some teachers and with the student culture. Many times the good Catholic teachers, and even the priests are stuck behind bureaucracy and cultural expectations that silence their voices. I have heard from fellow teachers at other schools that when they bring up the need for the Catholic school to become more Catholic, they are told things like, "That's just not the direction this school is going right now." It's a sad situation and it's the norm rather than the exception. However, there are some excellent Catholic schools out there, and things are slowly turning around.

To contribute to the answers of some of your questions:

Masturbation is grave matter because sexuality is both a core part of human identity and sacramental. Sexuality is core to human identity because it is tied to the most important human relationships - family. It is sacramental because it is the sacramental sign of marriage. It is a sign of the Holy Trinity - three Divine Persons in a relationship of perfect love. Sexuality is the expression of life-giving love that reflects the Holy Trinity. It is part of what makes us the Image of God. Sexuality as part of marriage is also a sign of Christ's love for His Church. Scripture constantly uses the image of marriage to show God's love for His people. Jesus Christ is ultimately the Bridegroom who completes this image by giving Himself completely for His Bride, the Church. When we give ourselves to our spouses in marital love (expressed in sex but also lived in the daily relationship), we reflect Christ's gift of love. Masturbation perverts the meaning of sexuality, making it all about selfish pleasure and even making it so selfish that it doesn't even involve the pleasure of another person. That said, it is something that most men struggle with, which is why we need the sacrament of Reconciliation and the grace it gives to help us conquer that sin.

Receiving the Eucharist is the most intimate connection we have with Christ. The marital sexual union is a sacramental sign of the unity of Christ to His Church through the Eucharist. To receive communion in the state of mortal sin is sort of like having sex with your spouse when you're mad at each other. The meaning of love just isn't there as long as obstacles are in the way. To make love in anger is to mock the love between spouses. Since receiving the Eucharist is about the love of God and mocking God's love would be sacrilegious, receiving Eucharist in a state of mortal sin is a sacrilege.

Finally, pray for your teachers, priests and administrators. Prayer has worked wonders in the school I used to work for. God bless your search for the Truth!
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  #11  
Old May 31, '08, 10:31 am
joeybaggz joeybaggz is offline
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Default Re: Faults in Catholic Teaching?

There is an old saying that states, "You can't hear God speak to anyone but yourself." You are responsible for no one but yourself. Remember that.

You have an obligation to speak for the truth, but Jesus didn't command us to be successful, only faithful. Stand for the truth, but don't get overly scrupulous about your responsibility for the souls of others.

As to the masturbation issue, gotta admit I'm tired of that one. Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church's instruction on that one and make up your own mind. It's why God put that four pounds of grey matter between your ears.
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  #12  
Old May 31, '08, 10:39 am
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JRKH JRKH is online now
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Default Re: Faults in Catholic Teaching?

A lot to address here. Let me take them one at a time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PePPaR View Post
I go to a Catholic School and I'm quite thankful for that.

But there is so much contradiction is ridiculous.

I'm only new to this forum but I've seen constantly here that masturbation is regarded as a mortal sin. I knew it was a sin but I didn't know it was such a 'grave' matter. Anyway, in Sexual Education at school one year - we watched a video which stated 'masturbation is a completely normal and natural thing'. However my school is Catholic and yet they showed this video to the students for education...
In regards to the film, the school may not have been able to find a "catholic" film on sex education and this was the best they could do.
I would note that, since you are aware that masturbation is a sin, you need to filter this "secular science" film through what you know to be true from your spiritual teachings.

Quote:
And another time the teachers were speaking of alcohol and its effects on people. Moreover they did not look at the fact that heavy drinking and getting drunk is a sin. Yet teachers were joking at the matter as if its a normal part of life. "Oh so what kind fo stuff do you guys drink on weekends?" - Remember the majority of people in the school are under age. One kid replies, "yeah man I get sloshed every weekend". And the teacher just laughs and does not address the fact of its sinful nature.
It's difficult to comment on this too much because I wasn't there to experience the specific event. However it does seem that the teachers were a bit too lax with the subject. Many adults, particularly teachers, recognize that talking about something like this is seen by many kids as kind of a joke, so they may have been trying to keep some levity in the discussion/lecture so as to hopefully reach more kids with good information.
Like I said though I wasn't there.

Quote:
Also. I've read around here that taking Eucharist WHILST in a state of mortal sin is bad...Could someone please explain why this is so?
Others may be able to answer this question more fully than I, but my understanding is that taking communion in a state of "Unrepentant Mortal Sin" is sinful in itself.
Now note here that the key is "Unrepentant Mortal Sin". What does that mean. It means that you commit a mortal sin, and are not sorry.
If you are repentant you need to get of confession ASAP. However, if you cannot get to confession, through no fault of your own, you may still recieve communion so long as you do intend to get to confession at the next opportunity.

Quote:
And I'll address a fact in relation to the taking of Eucharist whilst in mortal sin: At my school we have constant rituals and ceremonies and hold masses for the whole school - in which everyone recieves communion. However, even though my school is Catholic the majority of students really aren't that 'Christ-like'. The majority aren't...and some aren't even Christian. And since the school is a boy school, out of estimation I'd say around 65% or more masturbate on a REGULAR basis. And these people will not attend confession often - IF EVER (We have one day per year where we confess to a priest however). The school oblates would surely know such facts about life. Yet they still ISSUE communion? WHY?
You might want to address this with someone at the school. It seems very odd to me that confession is offered only once per year.

Quote:
So why...if such moral issues are so ethical and important in Christianity - why are they somewhat ignored and contradicted in todays teachings?
There in lies the "64 dollar question". How and why has church teaching been so watered down, and what is it doing to persons of your peer group?
All I can say is that you appear to be strongly called to holiness. You must be strong in your faith and morals, holding tightly to the true teachings of the church. You may not be able to effect your school a great deal, but God may well be preparing you for great work in building up and restoring His Church.

May God Bless and Protect you.

Peace
James
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Oh my God , I will continue
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  #13  
Old May 31, '08, 11:30 am
GemmaRose GemmaRose is offline
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Default Re: Faults in Catholic Teaching?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PePPaR View Post
But it's the priests and oblates in my school who organize the masses for us. The teachers assit helping, but really everything is done by the priests. I think they should know perfectly well what they are doing and aren't blindly making a mistake.
I went to a small Catholic high school (all girls). We had a priest who served as counsellor for the school and you could go to him and talk to him about anything.

Do you have someone like that in your school to whom you can address your questions?

If not, can you talk to one of the priests of your parish about your concerns and get his advice as to what can be done?

Have you talked to your parents about these concerns? After all, they must be paying tuition and should rightfully expect some solid Catholic doctrine to be taught.

Good for you for being concerned about what is being passed off as a "Catholic" education. Don't let anyone try to trick you into thinking that you're being silly for having these legitimate concerns.

Our prayers are with you. Keep us updated. God bless.

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  #14  
Old May 31, '08, 7:53 pm
Dragoro Dragoro is offline
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Default Re: Faults in Catholic Teaching?

Grave sin doesn't mean mortal sin. At least according to the CC.
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  #15  
Old May 31, '08, 8:08 pm
Arrowood Arrowood is offline
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Default Re: Faults in Catholic Teaching?

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Grave sin doesn't mean mortal sin. At least according to the CC.

Mortal sin is grave matter that is performed freely and with sufficient knowledge (i.e. the person knows that it's wrong and freely chooses to do it anyway).

However, the goal of morality is to embrace the greatest good and grave matter, whether mortal sin or not, draws us away from the greatest good.
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