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  #1  
Old Jul 2, '08, 8:56 pm
katxc6 katxc6 is offline
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Default video games

so i have friends who like to play violent video games.

it's all fantasy and pretend. is it a sin to play? i have no ill intent by playing them, it's just because i don't want to sit out and look like a loser.
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  #2  
Old Jul 2, '08, 11:02 pm
iaskquestions iaskquestions is offline
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Default Re: video games

You're probably talking about Counter Strike and the like. I've been through all that. And I tell you, it's sinful.

Why?

It's because you're fantasizing evil. Most of these games are filled with torture, murder and sexual overtones.

"As a man thinketh, so is he". (Proverbs 23:7)

"Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is gracious, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." (Philippians 4:8)

I hope you understand.
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  #3  
Old Jul 3, '08, 1:07 am
Caesar517 Caesar517 is offline
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Default Re: video games

Playing video games is most certainly not intrinsically evil. It may be a sin for some people to play them, but that is the exception rather than the rule. In that case, it is not the game that is causing you to sin, it is your reaction to it.

In shooter games, there is killing (different than murder), violence, and sometimes torture and sexual content. There are a few games that glorify murder and the like, but most shooter games are war-based. WWII, modern counter-terror, and defending against aliens are the most common shooter settings.

The real question to ask youself is: Is playing this video game (that contains sinful behavior) tempting me to commit these sins myself?

If the answer is "yes", then video games are an occasion of sin for you and should be avoided. If you find yourself thinking: "Gee, I wish I was murdering, torturing, and having immoral sex," then you should step away. If you find yourself being uncharitable to other players because of the intense competition, then you should find something else to do. If you find yourself devoting an reasonable amount of time to video games and putting off the more important things in your day, then you should reconsider your leisure activities.

If none of the above applies to you, then there is nothing wrong with playing video games.

Playing video games where the characters sin can be good. A video game where none of the characters sin would be unrealistic and impossible to relate to. If you recognize the sins of the characters, then you are on the right track. You should start to worry if you don't ever notice a character sin.

Choice-based role playing games are on the rise. These are fantastic; you are presented with impossibly difficult moral decisions. The choices you make affect your character and the world around you. Mass Effect is the most recent title in this category. There is plenty of battle and violence, but saving the galaxy from a race of sentient machines is hardly sinful behavior.

That said, there are some games (shooter mostly) that I will not play because of the unnecessarily gruesome disrespect for human life and immoral activities they glorify.

Grand Theft Auto is still the scapegoat of video games. Any time someone weants to bash video games, they bring this particular one up. I find that amusing since it is hardly the worst (I think the prostitution issue is responsible for that).

EDIT: I should add that if you are only playing to look cool and not because you enjoy it, you should try to find other activities to do with your friends.
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  #4  
Old Jul 3, '08, 1:40 am
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Lost Wanderer Lost Wanderer is offline
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Post Re: video games

Quote:
Originally Posted by iaskquestions View Post
You're probably talking about Counter Strike and the like. I've been through all that. And I tell you, it's sinful.

Why?

It's because you're fantasizing evil. Most of these games are filled with torture, murder and sexual overtones.

"As a man thinketh, so is he". (Proverbs 23:7)

"Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is gracious, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." (Philippians 4:8)

I hope you understand.
That depends on the context of the game itself. I mean take the game Ragnarok Online. They have a job class called Ninja and let me tell you, the outfit for girl Ninjas will certainly raise eyebrows here. However, when you think about it, Ninjas are supposed to be swift, agile, and stealthy, so their clothes have to be light, easy to move in. You can't say it has a sexual overtone if the purpose of the outfit is to actually ensure that the person's movements aren't restrained.

Another one with regards to murder. I agree with Caesar517's stament here:

Quote:
In shooter games, there is killing (different than murder), violence, and sometimes torture and sexual content. There are a few games that glorify murder and the like, but most shooter games are war-based. WWII, modern counter-terror, and defending against aliens are the most common shooter settings.
Okay to katxc6: I pretty much think Caesar517 has covered everything for you so I'll just add this. One of the most important rules a gamer must follow (at least for me) is that you should always tell fantasy from reality. For me, many of those stories people say about how a video game turned someone into a murderer are actually the result of someone cutting all his/her ties with reality. If you strongly know in your mind that you're just playing a game and that you can never do something like this in real life then I think it should be fine. It's worked for me.
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  #5  
Old Jul 3, '08, 3:32 am
Predikant Predikant is offline
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Default Re: video games

Quote:
Originally Posted by katxc6 View Post
so i have friends who like to play violent video games.

it's all fantasy and pretend. is it a sin to play? i have no ill intent by playing them, it's just because i don't want to sit out and look like a loser.


Christ Says: "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the
Kingdom of Heaven [Matthew 5:3]

Those that more strive to fill themselves of this world and of what the flesh desire, will not God be able to fill with him. Therefore, as he said, only those whom are poor in Spirit, poor of this world, will see God.

If what you desire is temporal enjoyments rather than eternal, if you strive to achieve something empty that you will leave behind when you die, and, if you spend your time playing video games and watching worldly movies and series, then you fill yourself with the world, and cannot be filled by God. This goes for all vain pleasures, such as sex, masturbation, gluttony, wrath, greed, unfruitful talk about the world, etc. None of these will see God, for what they desired was of this world, and the world passeth away.

If you dress in such a way to tempt others into Lust and vanity you are breaking Gods law and if you show of breast and butt by wearing tight clothes then you are deceived and deceive others to Hell by lust and vanity and will yourself also go to Hell. But everyone you have deceived by your shallow and lustful appearance will you also get a punishment for.

Shallowness is a deceit from satan, and make up is also. Do not wear make up so that it shows around eyes and face. The mirror is evil and give birth to shallowness and vanity, try to awoid it and escape its poison. Do not care of jewelry or nice clothing. Temporal goods should be as nothing to us who walk with christ.

You can read about clothing, shallowness and make-up and what God really thinks about it in Book 7 - Chapter 27, www.saintbirgitta.com


You can read about chastity and why it must be kept to enter Heaven here:

www.saintbirgitta.com - book 1, chapter 13
www.saintbirgitta.com - book 1, chapter 26
www.saintbirgitta.com - book 1, chapter 9
www.saintbirgitta.com - book 1, chapter 16

You can read on how the world and its pleasures must be dead for any one to enter Heaven, how God must be the only one we strive and reach for, both for our salvation and for others, by giving them a good example and teaching.

www.saintbirgitta.com - book 1, chapter 14
www.saintbirgitta.com - book 5, eight revelation
www.saintbirgitta.com - book 1, chapter 1
www.saintbirgitta.com - book 1, chapter 39
www.saintbirgitta.com - book 2, chapter 22
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  #6  
Old Jul 3, '08, 5:24 am
rotlex rotlex is offline
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Default Re: video games

I've been a gamer all my life. I'm 40 now, and have been gaming since Pong.

Do I think it is sinful? No, of course not. It is simple fantasy, entertainment etc. Do I think those that believe it IS sinful need to step back and take a look at themselves? Yes, most definitely, for they most likely cannot draw the line, or understand the difference, between fantasy and reality.
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  #7  
Old Jul 3, '08, 5:48 am
GraceDK GraceDK is offline
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Default Re: video games

Quote:
Originally Posted by katxc6 View Post
.... it's just because i don't want to sit out and look like a loser.
Dude.. thats a lame reason to do anything whatsoever. Why dont you have some independence and be a man ?

Obviosuly your gut feeling /conscience tells you something might not be right with some of the video games.. Listen to the Holy Spirit .. He is bigger and better than those friends you are trying to be accepted by.

You know what happens to guys who sit infront of tv-games and what not.. They become fat and lazy and loose track of reality. Reality is more interesting than videogames... You are wasting your time if you do this very much..

But hey.. its a free country.
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  #8  
Old Jul 3, '08, 8:55 am
katxc6 katxc6 is offline
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Default Re: video games

Quote:
Originally Posted by GraceDK View Post
Dude.. thats a lame reason to do anything whatsoever. Why dont you have some independence and be a man ?
I'm a girl. I have a lot of friends who are guys. They host parties where we play video games including:

-unreal tournament 2004
-counterstrike
-warcraft (it's not even a FPS i see no sin in this game)
-starcraft

and of course the obviously non-sinful games such as

-rock band
-mario party
-DDR
-guitar hero

so don't tell me to "be a man". i'm not.
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  #9  
Old Jul 3, '08, 10:27 am
Caesar517 Caesar517 is offline
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Default Re: video games

Quote:
Originally Posted by GraceDK View Post
You know what happens to guys who sit infront of tv-games and what not.. They become fat and lazy and loose track of reality. Reality is more interesting than videogames... You are wasting your time if you do this very much...

That's one of the most inaccurate steriotypes, I think. I have an Xbox 360 and spend several hours a day on Xbox Live when I can. During which, I consume a very large amount of junk food. Despite this, you can see my ribcage (I'm very skinny) and I'm working on a degree in computer engineering with a minor in mathematics.

I have 20 or so gaming friends. None of them are remotely fat.

Nevertheless, I know some people do have problems seporating real life from games and controlling themselves. These people shouldn't be playing.
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  #10  
Old Jul 3, '08, 1:13 pm
gmags2003 gmags2003 is offline
 
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Default Re: video games

Lol at that chastity person for hijacking this thread.
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  #11  
Old Jul 3, '08, 5:41 pm
Lost Wanderer's Avatar
Lost Wanderer Lost Wanderer is offline
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Default Re: video games

Quote:
Originally Posted by GraceDK View Post

You know what happens to guys who sit infront of tv-games and what not.. They become fat and lazy and loose track of reality. Reality is more interesting than videogames... You are wasting your time if you do this very much..
Hey I may have been told to get some exercise every now and then but I am so not fat! Heck, one habit I used to have when I was still in my 'hardcore' phase was that I used to rush my meals and eat less so I could get back to playing! (I don't do that anymore though but I hope you got my point.)

And man, sorry to sound crazy but I think reality's only good if you're making real life decisions and stuff, the rest is just boooring! I mean, the way I see it, most people live their lives by just doing the same routine everyday. There's no life! No excitement! That's why I like online games so much (and the whole roleplaying idea in general), everyday's an adventure for me.
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  #12  
Old Jul 3, '08, 6:44 pm
PeteZaHut PeteZaHut is offline
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Default Re: video games

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesar517 View Post
Grand Theft Auto is still the scapegoat of video games. Any time someone weants to bash video games, they bring this particular one up. I find that amusing since it is hardly the worst (I think the prostitution issue is responsible for that).
Just curious, what games do you think are worse than Grand Theft Auto. It's certainly the worst I've seen, especially for its sexual content. Unfortunately, I think its the sexual content that has been put into video games these days that is the real threat for sin. I think the vast majority of most people that play video games aren't led to sin by the violence in the game.
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  #13  
Old Jul 3, '08, 6:46 pm
PeteZaHut PeteZaHut is offline
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Default Re: video games

Quote:
Originally Posted by katxc6 View Post
I'm a girl. I have a lot of friends who are guys. They host parties where we play video games including:

-unreal tournament 2004
-counterstrike
-warcraft (it's not even a FPS i see no sin in this game)
-starcraft

and of course the obviously non-sinful games such as

-rock band
-mario party
-DDR
-guitar hero

so don't tell me to "be a man". i'm not.
Good for you not to be discouraged by that. That post encouraging you to "man up" could have been phrased in a much better, and less insulting, way. His point, however, was just for you to not let peer pressure make you do things that you dont want to do.
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  #14  
Old Jul 3, '08, 9:44 pm
Caesar517 Caesar517 is offline
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Default Re: video games

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteZaHut View Post
Just curious, what games do you think are worse than Grand Theft Auto. It's certainly the worst I've seen, especially for its sexual content. Unfortunately, I think its the sexual content that has been put into video games these days that is the real threat for sin. I think the vast majority of most people that play video games aren't led to sin by the violence in the game.
Different games can be disturbing for different reasons. I haven't played GTA very much, but I've seen prostitution (movies are worse), senseless killing, and crime-lord work. There are other games which feature things I usually find more repulsive: mutated humans(this tends to bother me more than anything else), severely demented religious cults (when shown in a positive light), showing God or Christianity in a negative light, etc.

Sexual content can be bad, but It isn't the most disturbing (at least for me). Mass Effect had an optional out-of-wedlock sex scene. It was done tastefully and it really added to the romance plot, IMO. BioShock featured mutated humans, but I still loved the game.

In the end, I don't think it's the content that makes a game good or bad (morality-wise); it's how the content is used and how the actions are portrayed.
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  #15  
Old Jul 3, '08, 10:42 pm
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Dwyer Dwyer is offline
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Default Re: video games

Good question katxc6.

It is probably a mortal sin to manufacture violent video games that do not portray Morally Justifiable Homicide (e.g., a policeman defending himself against an armed and attacking criminal; a soldier shooting the attacking enemy during WWI or WWII).


Pope Benedict made a strong statement against violent video games recently. Since he is the Vicar of Chirst and the voice of Jesus Christ on earth, we should pay heed to his words.

From a prior post (this question I noticed comes up a lot here).



Quote:
(My Comments)

However, I think the video game industry and Catholicism, on a whole, IMO, and especially with the more popular games, are moving morally and culturally in separate directions.



I think these games featuring wanton violence, for instance Godfather, The Club, Mafia, and most of the more popular games, really aren't games that Catholics should play.




Andy, you're really going to have to find out from an expert in Catholic moral theology (like from Catholic Answers) whether or not playing these sort of games constitutes a mortal sin against the Commandment "Thou shall not kill (in ancient Biblical Hebrew "murder" I believe).



I mean you're thinking you are going to shoot the guy or kill him in the game. And thoughts can be a sin.


I understand Larowyn's point that it is just a game. But these games no longer look like Pac Man.



The Game Designers try very hard with the graphics and construction to create a very realistic looking setting and characters. They try to simulate real life.


And yes, the game itself is a virtual reality, but it is also a part of our human reality, and we are still humans while playing it. And you are still sitting in the real world while you are playing the game.




And, yes, Larowyn, I hate to sound like I'm impinging on your freedom to game (our secular society tells you things that are morally objectionable are ok because businesses like gaming companies and other businesses can make $$ off you and everyone else), but, I think if you apply some moral analysis to the games, you'll see what I'm talking about.



A soldier who is serving and defending his nation in a Just War is not committing murder when the soldier is killing the enemy.

The killing is morally Justifiable Homicide because it is necessary in order to defend his nation or people.

Now, if a soldier just wantonly kills a civilian or executes POWs for no reason, then that would not be morally Justifiable, and it would be murder.

A game like Medal of Honor simulates history.


That, I think, was sort of Father Pacwa's point (about why on the radio Father Pacwa said the WWII videos games, on the whole, were ok).



Anyway, I found this on another Thread here at Catholic Answers; Andy, you will want to read this:





Quote:
MESSAGE OF THE HOLY FATHER BENEDICT XVI
FOR THE 41st WORLD COMMUNICATIONS DAY

Theme: "Children and the Media:
A Challenge for Education"

May 20, 2007

Any trend to produce programmes and products - including animated films and video games - which in the name of entertainment exalt violence and portray anti-social behaviour or the trivialization of human sexuality is a perversion, all the more repulsive when these programmes are directed at children and adolescents.

How could one explain this ‘entertainment’ to the countless innocent young people who actually suffer violence, exploitation and abuse?

In this regard, all would do well to reflect on the contrast between Christ who “put his arms around [the children] laid his hands on them and gave them his blessing” (Mk 10:16) and the one who “leads astray … these little ones” for whom "it would be better … if a millstone were hung round his neck" (Lk 17:2).

Again I appeal to the leaders of the media industry to educate and encourage producers to safeguard the common good, to uphold the truth, to protect individual human dignity and promote respect for the needs of the family.

(another CA's Forum member's comments)

B16 doesn't say that it's a sin exactly, but he does condemn (the manufacture of) games that "exalt violence and portray anti-social behavior or the trivialization of human sexuality" as a perversion (my note, that is very strong moral language).
I would recommend, as a Catholic, based on this statement of the Pope's, that you should stay away from video games that portray criminals in a positive light, or any that portray the wanton and unjustifiable killing of human beings.

Your best bet is playing a WWII game, if you want to play a video game, because the killing that goes on in those is done in self-defense (I can't think of any that allows you to murder POWs or civilians).

It is not murder. It is Morally Justifiable Homicide.


I don't know if it is a exactly a mortal sin to play these games, but it seems reasonable that strong arguments can be made that they are sinful to play them.

Last edited by Dwyer; Jul 3, '08 at 11:01 pm.
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