H.L.S. (Hook, Line & Sinker) Club

[JLongoria]

Originally Posted by Spirithound

I'm in! Now of course, this means that I'm going to need all y'all to keep me accountable . If I go off spoutin' some heresy, you 11 gotta come down on my like a ton-o-bricks, k?

Hah, will do! :P

[Prague]

Me too, Me too. I want to be a lifetime member.
H. L. S. Members unite.
God's blessings.

[nicolep]

Originally Posted by Spirithound

I'm in! Now of course, this means that I'm going to need all y'all to keep me accountable . If I go off spoutin' some heresy, you 11 gotta come down on my like a ton-o-bricks, k?

Will do! I'd appreciate the same.

[paxvobiscum]

Sounds like a winner to me - but what the heck is EENS?

[po18guy]

You can only be a true fisher of men during and after crossing the Tiber.

Tiber Hook, Line and Sinker Club member?

[JLongoria]

Originally Posted by paxvobiscum

Sounds like a winner to me - but what the heck is EENS?

Extra Ecclesiam Nullus omnino Salvatur

"Outside of the Church there is no salvation".

It's been infallibly promulgated by the Church for quite some time:

Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, Constitution 1, 1215, ex cathedra: “There is indeed one universal Church of the faithful (una…fidelium universalis ecclesia), outside of which nobody at all is saved (extra quam nullus omnino salvatur)…”

Pope Leo X, Fifth Lateran Council, Session 11, Dec. 19, 1516, ex cathedra:
“For, regulars and seculars, prelates and subjects, exempt and non-exempt, belong to the one universal Church, outside of which no one at all is saved, and they all have one Lord and one faith. That is why it is fitting that, belonging to the one same body, they also have the one same will…” (Decrees of the Ecumenical Councils, Vol. 1, p. 646.)

Yeah, you might wanna read this; it's long, but it's compelling.

[Ghoti]

Originally Posted by JLongoria

Extra Ecclesiam Nullus omnino Salvatur

"Outside of the Church there is no salvation".

It's been infallibly promulgated by the Church for quite some time:

Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, Constitution 1, 1215, ex cathedra: “There is indeed one universal Church of the faithful (una…fidelium universalis ecclesia), outside of which nobody at all is saved (extra quam nullus omnino salvatur)…”

Pope Leo X, Fifth Lateran Council, Session 11, Dec. 19, 1516, ex cathedra:
“For, regulars and seculars, prelates and subjects, exempt and non-exempt, belong to the one universal Church, outside of which no one at all is saved, and they all have one Lord and one faith. That is why it is fitting that, belonging to the one same body, they also have the one same will…” (Decrees of the Ecumenical Councils, Vol. 1, p. 646.)

Yeah, you might wanna read this; it's long, but it's compelling.

So you are then saying to be in this HLS club you have to be a Feenyite?

Thanks, but no thanks.

[JLongoria]

Originally Posted by Ghoti

So you are then saying to be in this HLS club you have to be a Feenyite?

Thanks, but no thanks.

Oh goodness no! Feeny was in grave misunderstanding, and the Catholic Church outright rejected what He taught.

I just mean to believe it as the Church teaches it, because yes, EENS is an official Church doctrine, but it has to be understood in a certain way (the link I posted is actually counter to what I believe, and I believe to what the Church currently teaches, but I just think the argument the guy posted is interesting, though lengthy).

As per Dominus Iesus,

It must be firmly believed that “the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mk 16:16; Jn 3:5), and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through baptism as through a door”.

. . .

For those who are not formally and visibly members of the Church, “salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church, but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit”; it has a relationship with the Church, which “according to the plan of the Father, has her origin in the mission of the Son and the Holy Spirit”

I apologize for making that confusing earlier.

To be in the HLS, I just think we've got to believe what the Church teaches. That makes most sense for me, anywho.

[Angel Bradford]

Please count me in

[Ghoti]

Originally Posted by JLongoria

Oh goodness no! Feeny was in grave misunderstanding, and the Catholic Church outright rejected what He taught.

I just mean to believe it as the Church teaches it, because yes, EENS is an official Church doctrine, but it has to be understood in a certain way (the link I posted is actually counter to what I believe, and I believe to what the Church currently teaches, but I just think the argument the guy posted is interesting, though lengthy).

As per Dominus Iesus,

It must be firmly believed that “the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mk 16:16; Jn 3:5), and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through baptism as through a door”.

. . .

For those who are not formally and visibly members of the Church, “salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church, but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit”; it has a relationship with the Church, which “according to the plan of the Father, has her origin in the mission of the Son and the Holy Spirit”

I apologize for making that confusing earlier.

To be in the HLS, I just think we've got to believe what the Church teaches. That makes most sense for me, anywho.

OK, thanks much for the clear-up... back at ya!

Yes, I'm no Feenyite. I do believe in EENS, but my belief also allows for the infinite mercy of God, as you point out in your post.

I do not -- cannot -- believe that God deprives anyone of the opportunity for salvation -- whether they be someone who is raised ignorant of the Catholic faith or an aborted baby. I refuse to believe that a God who came to earth in the form of man to die a horrendous death on a cross for our sake is the same kind of God who would condemn someone to hell for the sins of three others -- Adam, the abortionist, and whoever neglected to pour water on the tiny corpse -- without offering some chance of participating in redemption.

Other than that, I pretty much accept all of the Church teachings. I cannot think of any that I disagree with. Except for the requirement of always cheering for Notre Dame. But is that dogma?

Now...how does this SpaceFace thing work?

[BlestOne]

Me... I am one of the originals from the other thread... I joined facebook and myspace groups...

[JLongoria]

Originally Posted by Ghoti

OK, thanks much for the clear-up... back at ya!

Yes, I'm no Feenyite. I do believe in EENS, but my belief also allows for the infinite mercy of God, as you point out in your post.

I do not -- cannot -- believe that God deprives anyone of the opportunity for salvation -- whether they be someone who is raised ignorant of the Catholic faith or an aborted baby. I refuse to believe that a God who came to earth in the form of man to die a horrendous death on a cross for our sake is the same kind of God who would condemn someone to hell for the sins of three others -- Adam, the abortionist, and whoever neglected to pour water on the tiny corpse -- without offering some chance of participating in redemption.

Other than that, I pretty much accept all of the Church teachings. I cannot think of any that I disagree with. Except for the requirement of always cheering for Notre Dame. But is that dogma?

Now...how does this SpaceFace thing work?

Oh for sure! God would never deny anyone His grace; that is something that we do on our own by falling in to sin. That is, by sinning we reject Christ's love, something all Catholics agree on (and rightly so, I believe).

God loves us all so very, very much; His grace is unending, and never would He exclude anyone unless it was by our own choice.

That's why it's our job as Catholics to bring others the Good News and help them in understanding His Church as the Catholic Church!

[nicolep]

Originally Posted by JLongoria

Oh for sure! God would never deny anyone His grace; that is something that we do on our own by falling in to sin. That is, by sinning we reject Christ's love, something all Catholics agree on (and rightly so, I believe).

God loves us all so very, very much; His grace is unending, and never would He exclude anyone unless it was by our own choice.

That's why it's our job as Catholics to bring others the Good News and help them in understanding His Church as the Catholic Church!

Alrighty...I'm glad that was cleared up. I had quietly made my exit. I'm in agreement with it all now.

[T700]

Another member of the club, standing up to be counted!

Paul

[Denae]

Can I join? *Adorable bambi eyes*