Viet Nam.. What is your opinion?

distracted · #1 Jul 7, '08, 3:01 pm

i admit i don't know as much about the Vietnamese war as i would like.. but in light of what i have heard/read.. it occurs to me that we could have won that war and that we should have kept trying..

I feel that the war was stopped because of pressure by war demonstrators, who, frankly, probably didn't know much about the whole issue: the evils of Communism, how awful it is to live under that kind of rule.. etc,,

I hate war as much as anyone.. but i feel that if an evil dictator is trying to take over a country and force its evil designs on them.. (Communists don't seem to have much respect for human life, much less human freedom..) and also when this form of government is spreading.. and could become a greater threat to US.. then something should be done..

Again, i admit i don't know as much as others do on this subject.. which is why i am asking.. I would particularly like to hear from those who have BEEn there..

water · #2 Jul 7, '08, 3:20 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by distracted

then something should be done..

I wouldn't like to discuss about politics, but because it is under spirituality, what would you do about this?

distracted · #3 Jul 7, '08, 4:29 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by water

I wouldn't like to discuss about politics, but because it is under spirituality, what would you do about this?

what do you mean?

i bring it up here because war seems very un-Christian, for the most part.. but sometimes is necessary..

rpp · #4 Jul 7, '08, 4:36 pm

I think the loss of life after the American pullout, especially the related fall of the neighboring Cambodia to the diabolical Kmhrer Rouge regime was both predictable and unnecessary. But I was very young and I do not recall all the issues of the day. One thing I have been able to determine is that emotions on all sides ran very high the chances of getting an honest and even-handed telling of the events of those days is quite unlikely.

Based on what little I know, it is possible that the Vietnam War may have been a just war, especially after seeing what happened after the USA left.

There is no doubt that the USA had lost the will to fight. And millions of people paid the price of America's cowardice and the leftist political agenda of the day with their lives.

BTW, one of my best friends and closest co-workers grew up in Saigon and left there in 1968 to go to college here. He never saw his home again.

distracted · #5 Jul 7, '08, 4:42 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpp

Based on what little I know, it is possible that the Vietnam War may have been a just war, especially after seeing what happened after the USA left.

There is no doubt that the USA had lost the will to fight. And millions of people paid the price of America's cowardice and the leftist political agenda of the day with their lives.

BTW, one of my best friends and closest co-workers grew up in Saigon and left there in 1968 to go to college here. He never saw his home again.

thanks.. That is the position i have come to..

though i was never taught much about Viet Nam or any other war when in high school or even in the college history classes i took.. i have recently begun to read about it.. i know someone from Viet nam.. he had to escape from there..

I read something about how when the Americans were pulling out, Vietnamese were trying to hold onto the helicopter landing gear, they were so desperate to get out of there..

It was so easy for the pot-smoking war protesters (Yes, i know.. they weren't all smoking pot).. to protest a war against a political regime they themselves did not have to live under.. While they exercised their freedom to complain about the war publicly, the ones the war was trying to help were unable to do so without losing their lives.. and as far as i know, that is still the case in Viet Nam..

KingAlfred · #6 Jul 7, '08, 7:04 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by distracted

i admit i don't know as much about the Vietnamese war as i would like.. but in light of what i have heard/read.. it occurs to me that we could have won that war and that we should have kept trying..

I feel that the war was stopped because of pressure by war demonstrators, who, frankly, probably didn't know much about the whole issue: the evils of Communism, how awful it is to live under that kind of rule.. etc,,

I hate war as much as anyone.. but i feel that if an evil dictator is trying to take over a country and force its evil designs on them.. (Communists don't seem to have much respect for human life, much less human freedom..) and also when this form of government is spreading.. and could become a greater threat to US.. then something should be done..

Again, i admit i don't know as much as others do on this subject.. which is why i am asking.. I would particularly like to hear from those who have BEEn there..

It was really quite untenable. South Vietnam was a fake country, run by elitists to whom the people couldn't relate. Meanwhile, Marxism was naturally attractive to ordinary Vietnamese because it appropriated the nationalist cause and coincided psychologically with Confucianism, that which the Vietnamese had subscribed to and practiced for centuries.

water · #7 Jul 7, '08, 8:27 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by distracted

and also when this form of government is spreading.. and could become a greater threat to US.. then something should be done..

Quote:

Originally Posted by distracted

i bring it up here because war seems very un-Christian, for the most part.. but sometimes is necessary..

"what should be done" -- That's what I wished to know from you without talking about politics.

dang71 · #8 Jul 8, '08, 5:56 am

vietnam is a country, not a war. do a search on amazon for vietnamese history and nothing but war books come up. this is so sad, because it is such a great country with wonderful history and a very good, although small, Catholic population. i believe there was even a marian apparition there!!! i was in saigon in 2006, and would definitely go back again.
my fiancee's grandfather was a driver for the american generals during the war, and as soon as the american military left, he was promptly arrested and never seen again. the family still holds a memorial for him every year.
the question of whether the war was just should also include whether it was just to leave in the way we did. the same as in iraq and afghanistan now, since we are there now, is it just to pull out without "finishing" the job, knowing the carnage that may follow?

water · #9 Jul 8, '08, 6:03 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by dang71

i believe there was even a marian apparition there!!!

Yes, at Lavang in central of Vietnam - Lady of Lavang. There is a nice chapel built in the Basillica in Washington, DC.

Info: http://www.hsccfv.com/vietnamese/lavanghistory.html

JimR-OCDS · #10 Jul 8, '08, 8:48 am

Well, the Communist Vietnamese Government is beginning to open up to the West. In fact, George Bush has allowed certain forms of trade with Vietnam.

However, its still atheistic.

Catholic priest are currently being held in prisons and the free practice of religion, especially Christianity is prohibited.

I have two books written by Francis Xavier Ngyen Van Thuan, a Vietnamese Bishop, who was arrested and imprisoned for thirteen years. From prison, Bishop Van Thaun wrote various spiritual insights on small scraps of paper, which he manage to have smuggled out to Vietnamese Catholics. He was eventually released from prison and kept under house arrest, until he was expelled from Vietnam, and went to Rome.

Anyway, one of his two books, which I haven't read yet, is

"The Road to Hope: A Gospel from Prison" which the Archbishop of New Orleans, Francis B, Schutte calls, "An Imitation of Christ for the 21st Century."

In all, the Vietnamese people have suffered greatly over the years, mostly from war, but now from oppression.

There are many devote Vietnamese Catholic's, and they are the martyrs of our time.

Jim

water · #11 Jul 8, '08, 9:13 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimR-OCDS

I have two books written by Francis Xavier Ngyen Van Thuan, a Vietnamese Bishop, who was arrested and imprisoned for thirteen years.

I heard that the Vietnamese Catholic church is asking Rome to look into the canonization process of Fr. Thuan. There are miracles related to his intercession.

distracted · #12 Jul 8, '08, 10:22 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingAlfred

It was really quite untenable. South Vietnam was a fake country, run by elitists to whom the people couldn't relate. Meanwhile, Marxism was naturally attractive to ordinary Vietnamese because it appropriated the nationalist cause and coincided psychologically with Confucianism, that which the Vietnamese had subscribed to and practiced for centuries.

i am afraid i don't understand:

"fake country"

"elitists" (i know the term but don't know who you are referring to..)

"nationalist cause.. coincided.. with Confucianism".. In waht way??

distracted · #13 Jul 8, '08, 10:25 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimR-OCDS

Anyway, one of his two books, which I haven't read yet, is

"The Road to Hope: A Gospel from Prison" which the Archbishop of New Orleans, Francis B, Schutte calls, "An Imitation of Christ for the 21st Century."

In all, the Vietnamese people have suffered greatly over the years, mostly from war, but now from oppression.

There are many devote Vietnamese Catholic's, and they are the martyrs of our time.

Jim

thank you so much for the mention of the books.. This confirms my suspicions that the US really did get out of Viet N too soon.. Communisim is a worse menace to this world than people realize.. It is scary when certain people in our government system lean towards it.. (socialism.. etc)..

water · #14 Jul 8, '08, 10:27 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by distracted

thank you so much for the mention of the books.. This confirms my suspicions that the US really did get out of Viet N too soon.. Communisim is a worse menace to this world than people realize.. It is scary when certain people in our government system lean towards it.. (socialism.. etc)..

Was it right for US to invade Vietnam in the first place? Had this violated any of the 10 Commandments?

Randolph · #15 Jul 8, '08, 11:13 am

The rationale for the US to enter the Vietnam war was based primarily on two premises: One is the Domino theory. If South Vietnam fell to communism, so would the rest of Southeast Asia. The other is the US wanted to establish credibility to its allies that, in the post WW II era, it could be trusted as a protector/defender against the Soviet Union. The well being and the freedom of South Vietnam was really an after thought. This is evident through the abrupt US pull out and the lack of discussion for the neutrality of South Vietnam during the US and North Vietnam's negotiation process.

The war itself was really lost shortly after its started. At the time, Lyndon Johnson was most interested in promoting his "Great Society" initiative and saw the war as a distraction to it. Being both ignorant and arrogant, after all Vietnam is but a tiny country, Johnson felt that North Vietnam could be bombed and leveled into submission. So the massive bombing raids along with bad land policies were implemented. More bombs were dropped in Vietnam that the entire WW II combined. Atrocities on innocent civilians were committed by both US and South Vietnamese troops. Burning of homes, the My Lai massacre, agent orange, the raping and the savaging were among them. Unlike popuplar claim, the South Vietnamese, for the most part, cared not for Marxism. They just wanted to be left alone. The horrible actions of the American and the South Vietnamese soldiers left the great majority of Vietnamese with a seemingly obvious choice of supporting the North Vietnamese who promised them peace. The North Vietnamese also committed serious crimes as well. But somehow, they did a better job in propaganda warfare. Unlike other wars where there are points which the agressor could conquer and ultimately declare victory, this was not the case in Vietnam. Marching into Hanoi (the Capital of North Vietnam) then would be the same as going into a empty town. The North Vietnamese army and leaders were so mobile in the jungle that no amount of bombing or military excursions could severely damage them. With time on their side and with supply support from China and the Soviet Union, the North Vietnamese were able to maintain and plan their march into South Vietnam. Meanwhile, the American's will to fight the war became virtually non-existent in the US. In 1973, the Geneva agreement between the US and North Vietnam effectively ended US military engagement in Vietnam. South Vietnam troops fought on until 1975.

In my judgment, the significant point about this war, or in any other wars, is the war actually began after the last bullet was fired. People lost their homes, families and friends. The country infrastructure was ruined. Human wisdom and knowledge passed from one generation to another got lost. The Vietnamese lost 2-3 million lives. Who helped these people? The communist North Vietnamese pursued their retaliation campaign against South Vietnamese soldiers and their families who fought along side with the American soldiers. The so-called "re-education" camp was created to imprison them. In fact, the late Francis Cardinal Thuan, who is being investigated by the Church for possible sainthood was placed in this camp. Have you seen the movie "The Killing Field"? If not, could you imagine what Al-Qaida would do to the Iraqi soldiers we have trained if we were to leave Iraq now? The Communists were just as determined to go after catholics. Many priests and religious were imprisoned. Countless catholics became martyrs. Until this day, the mission of the Church has been severely restricted.