Eucharist & Relationship with Jesus - Page 2

runandsew · #16 Jul 13, '08, 6:39 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by myredeemerlives

YES!

You've heard the part in the bible where Jesus says "depart from me you worker of eniquity I never knew you"? If you think that Jesus knows you because you partook in holy communion, you are very sadly mistaken.

I spend 2 hours a week before Jesus in adoration of the Blessed Sacrament. I spend that time in prayer with him, I am getting to know him very personally.

Also when I attend protestant church services on the many occasions I have attended, I admit that they have very nice music, uplifting sermons and nice fellowship, but I leave with an empty feeling, and I can only attribute that to Jesus not being present there in the Eucharist.

But it the sermons tickle your ears, then more power to you.

CatsAndDogs · #17 Jul 14, '08, 12:47 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by myredeemerlives

Quote:
Originally Posted by myredeemerlives
So you choose to ignore the part where I said that I too once believed that but now have a real relationship with Jesus?
Quote: (CatsAndDogs):
Are you saying that those who DO believe in communion (as per the Church [Catholic]) DON'T have a real relationship with Jesus?

YES!

You've heard the part in the bible where Jesus says "depart from me you worker of eniquity I never knew you"? If you think that Jesus knows you because you partook in holy communion, you are very sadly mistaken.

My intent with the question was:

Do you think that one who partakes of Catholic communion is ACTIVELY EXCLUDED (by their willful act of taking communion as the Church demands) from HAVING a relationship with Jesus?

Are ALL Catholics who take communion, who do actually believe that they are taking in the Body and Blood of Christ, going to hell because they don't "have a relationship" (as you define that) with Jesus?

danonwaveland · #18 Jul 14, '08, 7:19 pm

Myredeemerlives,

God bless you on your journey. May His Holy Spirit lead you -- and all of us -- to the truth.

Two things: 1.) Please read "The Lamb's Supper," by Scott Hahn, an ex-Presbyterian minister who was a virulent anti-Catholic. His studies at Gordon Conwell seminary and his study of the early church fathers led him to look more closely at the mass. He found the Real Presence in the Eucharist and the fullness of truth in the Catholic Church. This book will help you understand; 2.) Most of the Catholics I know have a loving personal relationship with Jesus. I don't know how you define a personal relationship, but I know my Lord is with me all the time. I speak to Him, knowing He listens, and I listen as best as I can (just like with my wife, I am working at being a better listener). I know He loves me to death -- His -- and I am trying to trust Him more fully every day. I am amazed at how much He trusts me and how willing He is to give me another chance day after day. The high point, though, is when He shares Himself with me body and soul, blood and divinity, in the Eucharist.

I guess I am amazed that you have the audacity to tell me that I don't have a personal relationship with our Lord when you don't know me and, even if you did, you certainly don't know me as well as He does. If you were unable to find Him in the Catholic Church, it's not because He isn't there. He is there, but not everyone listens.

God bless,
Dan

InLight247 · #19 Jul 14, '08, 7:42 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by myredeemerlives

YES!

You've heard the part in the bible where Jesus says "depart from me you worker of eniquity I never knew you"? If you think that Jesus knows you because you partook in holy communion, you are very sadly mistaken.

I have been reading your posting and I am very puzzled.
It seems that you think receiving Holy Communion and having a personal relationship with Jesus are mutually exclusive. Where does that idea come from?

Actually Catholics must have good relationship with the Lord in order to worthily receive the Eucharist. Therefore, these two things should be mutually inclusive.

As Catholics, we not only have a spiritual relationship with the Lord, we are blessed with the physical relationship also. The Eucharist is the real body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ.
When we receive His Real Presence into our body, the union couldn't be more intimate. So, we Catholics really have the double portion - both the physical and spiritual union. If this is not a close relationship, what is?

No Catholic ever says just because we receive the Communion, so Jesus know us. We know the Lord and the Lord know us by our daily walk with Him, through our prayers , Scripture readings, Church teachings, and Sacraments. Holy Communion is one of the seven Sacraments. We solidly build our relationship with the Lord through all the above. And Holy Communion makes the relationship even more concrete and profound.

myredeemerlives · #20 Jul 14, '08, 8:10 pm

The problem lies is that your worshipping the Eucharist as Jesus. So for you, partaking in the communion and believing that Jesus is present in the Eucharist is the extent of your relationship.

But what if Jesus is not physically present in the Eucharist? What kind of relationship do you have with Him then?

I'm not saying this as an insult to your beliefs but to challenge you in your thinking about what others believe to be true.

Wyatt · #21 Jul 14, '08, 8:25 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by myredeemerlives

But what if Jesus is not physically present in the Eucharist? What kind of relationship do you have with Him then?

If Jesus is not present in the Eucharist, then that would mean He was a liar, and thus not the Son of God, and our faith would be in vain. Obviously that isn't the case though.

myredeemerlives · #22 Jul 14, '08, 8:38 pm

Well, if there was no way that His words could be taken symbolically (which they can) that would be the case. However, since they are to be taken symbolically, Jesus isn't a liar.

Kenneth Jones · #23 Jul 14, '08, 9:48 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by myredeemerlives

Well, if there was no way that His words could be taken symbolically (which they can) that would be the case. However, since they are to be taken symbolically, Jesus isn't a liar.

Well, that sums it up then. You go take whatever you want from Scripture and interpret it however you wish. That's pretty simple. Convenient, too.

On my side of the Looking Glass, however, I find it reassuring to lean on the Magisterium's Tradition. I suppose that's why it's called a religion, though, eh?

Cheers,
Ken

runandsew · #24 Jul 15, '08, 5:52 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by myredeemerlives

Well, if there was no way that His words could be taken symbolically (which they can) that would be the case. However, since they are to be taken symbolically, Jesus isn't a liar.

You know, I might agree with you, but Jesus didn't say: "This represents my body", He said : "This is my body". And He said "For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. "

St. John wrote the last statement in his Gospel, and he also passed on to others what he meant ( remember what St. Paul tells Timothy: "and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.") , and that is why St. Ignatius (who was taught by St. John) writes :
"I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, who was of the seed of David; and for drink I desire his blood, which is love incorruptible" (Letter to the Romans 7:3 [A.D. 110]).

"Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes" (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2–7:1 [A.D. 110]).

(St. Ignatius doesn't sound like he was taught that Jesus was speaking symbolically, it sound to me like St. John taught him that Jesus was being literal.)

And the fact that Eucharistic miracles have occurred and still occur (to a priest that I know personally), plus since I have spent several years before the Blessed Sacrament, I have to come to know in my heart that Jesus is truly, really, and substantially present under the appearances of bread and wine.

tessi · #25 Jul 15, '08, 6:07 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by myredeemerlives

Well, if there was no way that His words could be taken symbolically (which they can) that would be the case. However, since they are to be taken symbolically, Jesus isn't a liar.

To a blind person you can say that the sky is blue, but that blind person will never understand that concept of color. The presence of Jesus in the Eucharist is like the blue in the sky, you cannot understand.

myredeemerlives · #26 Jul 15, '08, 6:38 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tessi

To a blind person you can say that the sky is blue, but that blind person will never understand that concept of color. The presence of Jesus in the Eucharist is like the blue in the sky, you cannot understand.

That's not a good argument, for all you know... you could be the blind person.

Do you think a person decieved by Satan would actually know they are? I wouldn't be SO sure it's me.

tessi · #27 Jul 15, '08, 6:55 am

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That's not a good argument, for all you know

That's what I mean.

Quote:

There is no good argument.

You believe in Jesus and you know that you won't convince any atheist by arguments. This is the same.

Indyann · #28 Jul 15, '08, 6:57 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by myredeemerlives

That's not a good argument, for all you know... you could be the blind person.

Do you think a person decieved by Satan would actually know they are? I wouldn't be SO sure it's me.

What you are not understanding is that the Catholic Faith is a gift from God.

I do not know why some have been chosen to have been born into this faith. That is a mystery.

But God desires that all be saved, and desires to bestow this "gift of faith" on all who are open to it.

allhers · #29 Jul 15, '08, 7:05 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by myredeemerlives

The problem lies is that your worshipping the Eucharist as Jesus. So for you, partaking in the communion and believing that Jesus is present in the Eucharist is the extent of your relationship.

But what if Jesus is not physically present in the Eucharist? What kind of relationship do you have with Him then?

I'm not saying this as an insult to your beliefs but to challenge you in your thinking about what others believe to be true.

You know what is interesting? I can see where some people read things differently now. The first three words of your first sentence said it all. The problem lies------ read it this way...
The problem? Lies!!! You, and many others have been lied to.

You say that the problem lies in us worshipping the Eucharist as Jesus....etc, just read above for what you said, well, that isn't the problem as far as we see it, we see it as the problem lies in that you listened to someone's lies and walked away from Jesus, as He Himself said that He was present, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, it's HIM, He said so, read all of John 6 prayfully. We simply believe HIM. "This is My Body". He said so, we believe.

You know what else you said that isn't true? You said that was the extent of our relationship with HIM, it isn't. (more lies).

It is an insult.

allhers · #30 Jul 15, '08, 7:14 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by myredeemerlives

Well, if there was no way that His words could be taken symbolically (which they can) that would be the case. However, since they are to be taken symbolically, Jesus isn't a liar.

You are half right here, Jesus isn't the liar. You can take His words symbolically, however, that isn't how He meant them. That is explained when you read all of John 6. You'll notice how many walked away, much like you did, and then Jesus turned to HIS Apostles (those that stayed) and they received HIM.

One other thing that I'd like to clear up for you, in your little signature line by Charles S. it says this "If I were a Roman Catholic, I should turn a heretic, in sheer desperation, because I would rather go to heaven than go to purgatory", didn't you know that all in purgatory do go to heaven?