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  #1  
Old Jul 14, '08, 11:49 am
vocatio vocatio is offline
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Default EWTN Homily today: Fr. Frank Pavone

Priests for Life.
I'm a strong proponent for Pro-Life. So is my wife.

However, something Fr. Pavone really disturbs my wife. He said something about God not hearing our prayers if we don't do something. Could anyone first fill me in of what he said and then start giving feed back. My wife is a convert from the very Fundamentalist group known as the Church of Christ. She has issues with helping these women as if they are the victims. She's all for throwing them in jail if they get abortions. But she says this is just another entitlement society way of enabling these women. It's a way to get a free ride.

She also doesn't like most republicans because they have been so guilty lately of starting unjust war. It's pretty deep loathing I believe. I agree, but pro-life is also something to consider. Both of us believe that the so called Republican Pro-Lifers have had since 1982 with Ronald Reagan to change this but they are only saying it to get the Christian vote. I believe that is true. So now we consider my self a pro-life whatever will reduce the injustices occuring around us. I've voted Republican for so many years. But now I believe they are mostly all liers.

Last edited by vocatio; Jul 14, '08 at 12:04 pm.
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  #2  
Old Jul 14, '08, 12:50 pm
vocatio vocatio is offline
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Default Re: EWTN Homily today: Fr. Frank Pavone

If you have good comments please post. This is pressing to me. I need to figure out how to positively address the issue. My wife got beat over the head so many times with COCs saying God does not hear the prayers of non-Chrisitans like Catholics and Muslims for example.
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  #3  
Old Jul 14, '08, 12:54 pm
MichaelTDoyle MichaelTDoyle is offline
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Default Re: EWTN Homily today: Fr. Frank Pavone

Why are you two hanging out with people who beat your wife over the head?
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  #4  
Old Jul 14, '08, 1:03 pm
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lizaanne lizaanne is offline
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Default Re: EWTN Homily today: Fr. Frank Pavone

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelTDoyle View Post
Why are you two hanging out with people who beat your wife over the head?
He said "got" - past tense. I believe that may have been when she was still CoC.

~Liza
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  #5  
Old Jul 14, '08, 1:09 pm
vocatio vocatio is offline
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Default Re: EWTN Homily today: Fr. Frank Pavone

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Originally Posted by lizaanne View Post
He said "got" - past tense. I believe that may have been when she was still CoC.

~Liza

You interpreted correctly. I'm sorry if my words are not clear. There's a psychological element taking place here. It's a long very private story that I will not discuss. Believe me she has good reasons for her fear. Her family does not know we're Catholics. Her anxiety is through the roof.
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Old Jul 14, '08, 1:42 pm
LCMS_No_More LCMS_No_More is offline
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Default Re: EWTN Homily today: Fr. Frank Pavone

Quote:
Originally Posted by vocatio View Post

You interpreted correctly. I'm sorry if my words are not clear. There's a psychological element taking place here. It's a long very private story that I will not discuss. Believe me she has good reasons for her fear. Her family does not know we're Catholics. Her anxiety is through the roof.
I almost got caught up in the CoC, so I know a little of what you're talking about.
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Old Jul 14, '08, 2:01 pm
allhers allhers is offline
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Default Re: EWTN Homily today: Fr. Frank Pavone

Since I didn't see today's Mass on EWTN, although, I will probably watch it later, it's on like 3 times a day on EWTN if you want to try to see it also, here are today's readings and Gospel reading, maybe that will help you get some idea of what she is talking about. If I see the Mass later I will come back and try to fill you in.
Isaiah 1: 10 - 17
10 Hear the word of the LORD, you rulers of Sodom! Give ear to the teaching of our God, you people of Gomor'rah!
11 "What to me is the multitude of your sacrifices? says the LORD; I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams and the fat of fed beasts; I do not delight in the blood of bulls, or of lambs, or of he-goats.
12 "When you come to appear before me, who requires of you this trampling of my courts?
13 Bring no more vain offerings; incense is an abomination to me. New moon and sabbath and the calling of assemblies -- I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly.
14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hates; they have become a burden to me, I am weary of bearing them.
15 When you spread forth your hands, I will hide my eyes from you; even though you make many prayers, I will not listen; your hands are full of blood.
16 Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean; remove the evil of your doings from before my eyes; cease to do evil,
17 learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; defend the fatherless, plead for the widow.
Psalms 50: 8 - 9, 16 - 17, 21, 23
8 I do not reprove you for your sacrifices; your burnt offerings are continually before me.
9 I will accept no bull from your house, nor he-goat from your folds.
16 But to the wicked God says: "What right have you to recite my statutes, or take my covenant on your lips?
17 For you hate discipline, and you cast my words behind you.
Matthew 10: 34 - 42
34 "Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
36 and a man's foes will be those of his own household.
37 He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;
38 and he who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for my sake will find it.
40 "He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives him who sent me.
41 He who receives a prophet because he is a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward, and he who receives a righteous man because he is a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.
42 And whoever gives to one of these little ones even a cup of cold water because he is a disciple, truly, I say to you, he shall not lose his reward."
Matthew 11: 1
1 And when Jesus had finished instructing his twelve disciples, he went on from there to teach and preach in their cities.
Hope that helps for now.
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  #8  
Old Jul 14, '08, 2:30 pm
allhers allhers is offline
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Default Re: EWTN Homily today: Fr. Frank Pavone

oops sorry, left out this part.
Psalms
21 These things you have done and I have been silent; you thought that I was one like yourself. But now I rebuke you, and lay the charge before you.
23 He who brings thanksgiving as his sacrifice honors me; to him who orders his way aright I will show the salvation of God!"
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  #9  
Old Jul 14, '08, 2:59 pm
vocatio vocatio is offline
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Default Re: EWTN Homily today: Fr. Frank Pavone

Quote:
Originally Posted by LCMS_No_More View Post
I almost got caught up in the CoC, so I know a little of what you're talking about.
I tried to run too, but my wife's family was so good in many ways, I just didn't know the hidden secrets of the COC. They are quite abusive in my opinion. They really mean well and truly believe what they teach. But that doesn't take away from the fact that it is deeply distorted. Why I stayed is way too complex to get into. I did run, but I literally heard a voice say 'it's okay you can marry her"...3 times in a row after giving 2 really good reasons not to...seeking Priesthood, she's not catholic. Then a warm tingling feeling from head to toes and walking on clouds the rest of the night. I asked her to marry me the following week. That's when the difficultly began...proselytizing me really hard and confusing me. They had convinced me they might be right and that my baptism was not valid. But that's another thread.

ECF brought me home in late October 2006 along with my wife and 3 children. She's Catholic now and still hiding it from mom. Her dad was an elder or bishop if you ask some. Her 2 oldest brothers are preachers and one is an elder. This can be related all the way through both of our famlies. My mom was Protestant. So there you go...a good argument against mixed marriages, especially with fundamentalists.
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  #10  
Old Jul 14, '08, 6:59 pm
allhers allhers is offline
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Default Re: EWTN Homily today: Fr. Frank Pavone

Vacitio, I watched the Mass on EWTN earlier and this is what I got from it.
Fr. Frank was saying that God no longer hears our prayers when we come before Him asking His help for ourselves when we are doing nothing to help our neighbor. God tells them that their hands are filled with blood, not that they themselves have killed someone but they stand by and do nothing about the killing of others. Fr. Pavone said the daily killing of babies in the womb, while we walk right by and act as though we are not our brothers keeper, because we all are, saying you are against abortion and that you don't have abortions isn't enough, you are responsible to bring it to an end. All of us. By keeping abortion legal and not doing anything to protest it or stop it by voting for "issues" that we feel are more important is saying as much as, "Well, I can't impose my beliefs on others." He said that people can't represent one another until they represent all people, including preborn people in the womb.
Prayer, Penance and Presence/ Pray daily to end abortion, do penance toward that end, and be a prayful presence at the abortion mills in your area, you just might be the agent God is choosing to use for a woman to see or talk to at an abortion mill, many women have deceided to not have an abortion after seeing people praying for them when they go to have their abortions, also some people who give the women information on where they can get help, some women have chosen to do that instead of killing their babies. Some women just need someone to be there for them when they get there. He said sometimes we are the only sign they need from God to stop them from going in. Without us, they may just go ahead, with us, they may change their minds.
Don't stop, prayer, penance, presence, help to make sure people do vote, vote for those who stand for life, protect the innocent with justice. Then God favors and blesses your undertakings. His website is : http://priestsforlife.org/
At this link, you can click on this and it will give you the abortion mill to go to in order to pray (You can click on your State and it matches your Parish up with an abortion mill in your area to go to pray at.) http://www.priestsforlife.org/mills/states.htm
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  #11  
Old Jul 14, '08, 9:54 pm
vocatio vocatio is offline
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Default Re: EWTN Homily today: Fr. Frank Pavone

Personally I pray at an abortion clinic with our parish. However, the person in the lead or heading it up is a little wacky going out of the way to try to get NEW cars paid for by our parish. Father said NO and was accused of not being prolife by the leader and spouse. That is absolutely sinful. My wife and I are discusted by this improper bahavior because when we were down and out we indure the most ridicule and still did what we were supposed to do. The thought of abortion never enter our thoughts because we know it is wrong and sinful...murder. If it were up to us, the new laws against those who've had abortions would go retroactive and imprison grandmas and grandpas that helped. There is one thing called a crime of passion, but this is not a crime of passion this is a calculated crime that is the most cruel in our society. We let people off the hook way to easy for the worst crimes. And then if someone had a tubiligation or ever used ABC we act like that is worse. That's twisted.

BTW. Our parish priest is very orhtodox and does not like to listen to the twisted agendas that certain "popular" priests push. I am very conservative and in an attempt to work through this with my wife have come to understand where she's coming from. It's not hate, it's that she gave up her family for this faith and some priest comes along and twists the readings to fit his agenda. She says Catholics acuse Protestants of twisting scripture to mean what they want and then says "what's the differnce"....I talked her down from her moment of anger...anxiety. STOP the nonsense. Father told us that we could write Fr. Pavne and the Bishop on this. I am active in prolife, but now I will not support our particular group because of the twisted nature of the leaders. So I have to find better ways to support them. I'm sorry, we settled and still settle for hand-me-downs and this group will not accept them. They are even nice and in good condition so we gave it to the DRE. It's a really messed up society when we can not figure out what is wrong with this thinking.

Even the Bishop has scolded these individuals in our area for some things they were doing. It is more productive to pray without shoving catholic devotions on people. We need to be very eccumenical in our approach so that we as a whole of Christians can defeat this horrible slaughter. I propose we pray the Liturgy of the Hours. That is more paletable to Protestants. Rosaries just freak out most Protestants. But I do it because I think its not bad and is good. But holding up giant Mary pictures really blows it out of proportion. That only communicates to Catholics, not the others that are going in for abortions. So then we are only ministering to our own, not all.

Come on, when people blow things out of wack it takes away from our credibility. That's like some wacko saying that women who've had ABC or tubilagations have changed their scent and become less attractive to men. That's like reducing me to a dog. Thanks for treating me worst than an animal....that is disordered. That's my point. I heard a lady call in the other day on our Catholic radio and she was a very sweet sounding almost shy lady and I immediately thought she was some soccer mom with silly ideas that I hear so often. She elaborated that she was a pediatrician and was really sad at hearing all the misinformation on the various media programs by Catholics about the kids vaccines. She had a really good point and elaborated. They cut her off to allow other people's calls. but she had a lot of time and they asked her for her information so that they could set her up as an expert on their show. That told me that the folks that put that information that scared the hell out of all those parents did not really know what they were doing...and are not qualified to correctly interpret statistical data.

My wife suffers from extreme anxiety and all Fr. Pavone does is triggers her anxiety with fear. Fear of being beaten up by over agressive men from her past that claimed to be good Christians. That is sad. I lived in that community much of my life and if you really understood what it was like you would not support the overly agressive behavior. I know my wife's reaction. I wonder how many other women have major anxiety issues like my wife where they've given up the families to become Catholic. Family as in brothers, sister, friends, etc...mom in this case. We live secret Catholics lives. Fortunately we live far enough to where we don't have to take sacramentals off of our walls or person all the time. It's a realy hell of our own that I honor for my wife's sake...with the support from our pastors who know our situation and why. So now that she's so anxious I have to avoid EWTN until Fr. Frank Pavone goes away. I can just ignore his over statements. I know balony when I hear it. I agree with what he says, but not to the extreme he pushes it. We are also required to live in peace you know. That is the life of a transformed Christian. Not everyone has the same calling...vocation. This is for those that can handle it. Just as Fr. Pavone is not called to marriage, neither is my wife called to listen to someone say God does not hear her prayers again...just like they did in the Church of Christ. That just makes her blood boil...who are they to say that? They have no right. God hears our prayers...our cries. That text is taken way out of context and if I remember correctly wasn't even the readings for the day.

Anyway, I've recorded it so that I can listen to it again when everyone is asleep. I hope he's not on in the morning.
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Old Jul 14, '08, 10:44 pm
vocatio vocatio is offline
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Default Re: EWTN Homily today: Fr. Frank Pavone

You know, I watched it and listened very careful. I didn't have a problem myself with what he said. So then why is my wife so upset with him? I don't get it. The only thing I figure is that Fr. Pavone looks a lot like one of here uncles and even talks strong like him. Prechers in the COC, especially the elders, can bed quite abusive and very harsh. Having grown up under such a strict rule may be what's triggering her fear. It is an association thing...kind of like Pavlove's Dog experiement. I bet that's it. I think harsh readings instill a scared not fear thing. I know she often stood up for visitors and others that were abused by the elders and teachers. I mean verbal and harsh punishments for really dumb things. She described some of them. I've seen it myself. Most good Christians would give the elders a knuckle sandwich if an elder talked to their wife the way I experienced a few talk to mine. Their lucky I didn't "terminate" them. I was a soldier getting ready for deployment at the time. And those sorry excuse for humans pulled a real doozy on us. Heartless people reallyk...now that is the kind of people the readings were about today...not abortion in particular...it applies to many of the injustices in our world. It's very sad.

I have one idea of why she may be reacing. I knew this might come back to haunt her. I even warned her of it. That will have to be between her, god and her confessor. Prayers would be nice. No I don't beleive she ever had an abortions...she's dead set against it...always has been I believe. But I learn new things all the time...even after 19 years of marriage. If you're a Catholic thinking about marrying a non-Catholic...DON"T. It's a very difficult thing to adjust to, even with conversion of the spouse. I've heard so many stories like ours. It's very hard. Now I know what my own parents went through before they divorced. Ruined our lives. But COCs do not believe in divorce thankfully. Many if not most do not believe in abortion or rather that it is a sin. So that would never be an option. We love each other too on top of that. I was just hoping to get an ideas of something I'm not thinking about. Deep dark secrets? I doubt it. She doesn't exhibit signs and we've gone through all the prenatal stuff together. So the worst is not probable.
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Old Jul 15, '08, 3:03 pm
DaveBj DaveBj is offline
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Default Re: EWTN Homily today: Fr. Frank Pavone

I get a little nervous when I hear people saying that God will not hear my prayers if I don't do what they want me to do.

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Old Jul 15, '08, 9:02 pm
vocatio vocatio is offline
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Default Re: EWTN Homily today: Fr. Frank Pavone

The thing is that you'd expect to hear that from a fundamentalist, but a Catholic priest is something else. Even Fr. Corapi comes across much more gentle than that. I love that "In the end....it's either Heaven...or Hell... We love to mimic him. He right you know. But it comes across so stern...carry the scared of the Lord instead of the fear of the Lord.

Now God won't even hear our prayers is a whole new level of abuse. I'm thinking about writing the Bishop for this one. It's just really bad to aim guns at people without knowing your audience. My wife has turned them off...in fact EWTN will be off limits during the brain washing season of who to vote for. We gave up news about 3 years ago after I was finally released from the National Guard. They were trying to send me to Iraq with my aging and broken body. Lucky I didnt' have to leave my family. We were so stressed out over anxiety issues that we decided to leave the decisions up to God instead.
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Old Jul 16, '08, 5:59 am
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Default Re: EWTN Homily today: Fr. Frank Pavone

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Originally Posted by vocatio View Post
T I'm thinking about writing the Bishop for this one. It's just really bad to aim guns at people without knowing your audience.
I am having a very hard time understand your points, but some of what you seem to be saying I find very strange. Why would you blame a good priest for people misunderstanding what he said? Should the people in question not place what he said in the best possible light and seek greater understanding rather than immediately use terms like brain washing and all the rest?

Is the problem really what the priest said or perhaps is the lack of understanding on the part of those who heard the greater problem?
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