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  #226  
Old Aug 31, '08, 11:14 pm
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Kaninchen Kaninchen is offline
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Default Re: European Catholicism

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Originally Posted by Cinette View Post
[color="Blue"]Jesus' suffering on the cross is his great gift to us. We Christians, in turn, offer our sufferings to him and this has great redemptive power.My husband and I experienced suffering and today we have forgiven and have greatfull hearts. We are very happy. We have learned much. . . .
Because of the passion story, the concept of suffering is part of the central theological and emotional dynamic of Christianity, I appreciate that, I really do.
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  #227  
Old Aug 31, '08, 11:16 pm
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Kaninchen Kaninchen is offline
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Default Re: European Catholicism

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The chastisement will bring us together. This is the gift.
I'm sure that you'll always take every opportunity to present us with your 'gift'.
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  #228  
Old Aug 31, '08, 11:24 pm
Cinette Cinette is offline
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Default Re: European Catholicism

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Originally Posted by deborahaz View Post
i agree with you cinette about the cathedrals which are the sports stadiums.
athletes, celebrities, politicians. they are all put on pedestals and lavished with gifts and attentions and huge salaries. they are distractions. the rest of us live mundane lives compared to them. we are worshipping idols more than worshipping God in the world today.
You say mundane lives but would you really choose their lives?

When you look at a sunset I bet you see it in all its splendour and that your heart swells!

I know of a billionaire (I won't mention his name) who was on business in south Africa and instead of taking in the beauty around him he was busy with his taptop and talking on his mobile while being driven around some stunning places. He was too busy making more money!

We experience God. We receive the Eucharist. We gain insight into our Faith which we can pass on to others and other generations. We have a treasure. Do they? We are spiritually enriched as we live out our Faith.

So Deborah let us give Praise to Him who loves us and think of the promises to come. Our lives here is just a journey.

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  #229  
Old Aug 31, '08, 11:26 pm
Cinette Cinette is offline
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Default Re: European Catholicism

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Because of the passion story, the concept of suffering is part of the central theological and emotional dynamic of Christianity, I appreciate that, I really do.
I am pleased to know that
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  #230  
Old Aug 31, '08, 11:42 pm
Isa Almisry Isa Almisry is offline
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Default Re: European Catholicism

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Originally Posted by Augustine View Post
The thread is focusing on Catholic Western European countries, as the thread title states.

Not to be nit picky, but there is an Eastern Europe, which is as European (actually more, as the term first applied there) as the West.

You don't have Western in the thread title.
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  #231  
Old Aug 31, '08, 11:54 pm
Cinette Cinette is offline
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Originally Posted by Isa Almisry View Post
Not to be nit picky, but there is an Eastern Europe, which is as European (actually more, as the term first applied there) as the West.

You don't have Western in the thread title.

Great - Eastern Europe. This is wonderful. We can learn a lot! But from which country? Your country is not reflected in th top corner of the page.

Please introduce yourself and tell us all you have on your mind and heart
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  #232  
Old Sep 1, '08, 4:04 am
DAPDN DAPDN is offline
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I disagree, Capitalism started in Catholic Flanders and Venice before the Reformation. Many doctors actually paved the way for Capitalist economics, especially through the defense of private property, interest and profits.

What perhaps the Protestants did to push Capitalism, perhaps to its current form devoid of moral principles, was the Calvinist idea almost equated wealth with holiness.

Very good! How could I possibly forget that! And let's remind, too, that, in what concerns to one of the biggest and unexpendable triggers to capitalism and to free-market - the banking business - the first world's banking institution was founded in Italy in the medieval ages, a very Catholic country at that time, and still in our days.

Oh, and one of the world's first schools of Economy started at the University of Salamanca, in the 16th Century - guiding the study of a new economic phenomenon, among many, the inflation, triggered by the coming of gold and plate from the Spanish colonies in the New World. So, yes! Great remark! We might as well say that Capitalism and Corporations were invented by the Catholic culture.

On the other hand, still, the more liberal (at the 16th Century) politcal environment that England and the United Provinces of the Netherlands provided to its inhabitants, providing freedom of establishment and freedom of economic initiative, was in fact what gave greater impulse to the Capitalist first global economy. And that is a fact, that later the Holy Mother Church came to recognize, too, by, for example, giving permission for lending money while charging interest rates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Rand View Post
We all know that we sons of Abraham have each had our turn as oppressors, most often of eachother. Let's not forget that there are Muslims who suffer much injustice at the hands of Jews at the moment.

True Christians have had their turn in the past--before we turned on eachother--and they will have it again. One day, the Body of Christ will be brought together and will again function as a whole. It will be our turn, and it will be our passion.

The chastisement will bring us together. This is the gift.
So true. Amen to that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isa Almisry View Post
Not to be nit picky, but there is an Eastern Europe, which is as European (actually more, as the term first applied there) as the West.

You don't have Western in the thread title.
I make Cinette's words mine! Welcome! Let us all hear from you and also about the situation about Eastern Christianity! To start with it, let us now: are you a Eastern Catholic or an Orthodox Christian?
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  #233  
Old Sep 1, '08, 4:56 am
deborahaz deborahaz is offline
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Smile Re: European Catholicism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinette View Post
You say mundane lives but would you really choose their lives?

When you look at a sunset I bet you see it in all its splendour and that your heart swells!

I know of a billionaire (I won't mention his name) who was on business in south Africa and instead of taking in the beauty around him he was busy with his taptop and talking on his mobile while being driven around some stunning places. He was too busy making more money!

We experience God. We receive the Eucharist. We gain insight into our Faith which we can pass on to others and other generations. We have a treasure. Do they? We are spiritually enriched as we live out our Faith.

So Deborah let us give Praise to Him who loves us and think of the promises to come. Our lives here is just a journey.

i know there are many athletes who are very spiritual, there is jim caviezel who was Jesus in the mel gibson movie and is a devoted catholic, and i am sure there are some politicans out there who actually practice their faith and have a deep understanding about it, unlike nancy pelosi. yes, i would say that my life is mundane compared to theirs. there are some, that take for granted the athletic skills they have, definitely celebrities who have lost their way, and politicians who are corrupt, but i think there are many that realize that God blessed them in a special way and they have a chance to use it in order to help others. they can be spokespersons for various charities or medical organizations, they can help raise money, they want to give back to society in exchange for the way their lives have been blessed. granted, a lot of responsibility comes with their fame, but they get a lot of perks too. that doesn't mean that they are any different to God, we are all His children.
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  #234  
Old Sep 1, '08, 5:03 am
deborahaz deborahaz is offline
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Smile Re: European Catholicism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Rand View Post
We all know that we sons of Abraham have each had our turn as oppressors, most often of eachother. Let's not forget that there are Muslims who suffer much injustice at the hands of Jews at the moment.

True Christians have had their turn in the past--before we turned on eachother--and they will have it again. One day, the Body of Christ will be brought together and will again function as a whole. It will be our turn, and it will be our passion.



The chastisement will bring us together. This is the gift.
how are muslims suffering injustice at the hands of the Jews at the moment?
i don't see where you are coming from there. I believe there are muslims suffering injustice because of the action of other muslims. i was also wondering if perhaps Christianity or Catholicism might be stronger in eastern europe and if there is the spread of Islam in eastern europe as there is in western europe.
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  #235  
Old Sep 1, '08, 5:26 am
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JharekCarnelian JharekCarnelian is offline
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Default Re: European Catholicism

Once you move past Poland and Lithuania (and some would debate whether they are Eastern or Western Europe) many of the countries in Eastern Europe are Orthodox not Catholic, (with some exceptions such as Croatia) so on the whole the question of the Catholic church been stronger in Eastern Europe would be moot. There are also a few states such as Albania which are majority Muslim when you get towards the edges of Eastern Europe - this tends to be due to their proximity to what was the Ottoman Empire's sphere of influence and as a result there are historic er 'tensions' between Muslims and Christians in these regions.
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  #236  
Old Sep 1, '08, 5:38 am
deborahaz deborahaz is offline
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Default Re: European Catholicism

i have to admit that my knowledge of geography and current affairs of eastern europe is not very good.

i did think that there were some countries which were muslim. albania and i am not sure if chechnya is a country yet, but i know the muslim extremists from chechnya have caused many problems in russia.

so we must pray for the revitalization of catholicism and christianity in eastern europe as well as western europe and also russia and china.

it seems wherever christians and muslims reside in close proximity, there are tensions, unfortunately.
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  #237  
Old Sep 1, '08, 5:48 am
DAPDN DAPDN is offline
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Default Re: European Catholicism

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Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian View Post
Once you move past Poland and Lithuania (and some would debate whether they are Eastern or Western Europe) many of the countries in Eastern Europe are Orthodox not Catholic, (with some exceptions such as Croatia) so on the whole the question of the Catholic church been stronger in Eastern Europe would be moot. There are also a few states such as Albania which are majority Muslim when you get towards the edges of Eastern Europe - this tends to be due to their proximity to what was the Ottoman Empire's sphere of influence and as a result there are historic er 'tensions' between Muslims and Christians in these regions.
True, but still, there are a few Eastern Catholic Churches. And I'd like to know about the situation there - if it is as bad as in Western and Central Europe, in what concerns to Western Catholicism.
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  #238  
Old Sep 1, '08, 5:58 am
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JharekCarnelian JharekCarnelian is offline
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Default Re: European Catholicism

Been married to someone Russian I have naturally mixed feelings about Chechyna. I have some sympathy been Irish for them as a small state struggling towards independence (and if you look at the way the USSR treated the Chechens you will see they do have SERIOUS grievances ) but the Chechens tactis passed the limit of acceptability with the campaign of terrorism they started wagin in Russian cities just as the IRA passed beyond any reasonable justification when they did the same. I could see a reasonable justification for fighting the Russians as they had allowed them de facto independence but unfortunately the situation as it stands now is not what it was in the first Chechen war. Overall all though the whole situation there has been a disastrous emberassment for Russia as they cannot effectively control of reconquer what is ultimately relatively a tiny area of territory.

As regards Eastern Europle in those states which are Catholic I would hope for a revival of faith but in those states which are Orthodox I would pray for a revival of the Orthodox faith where it has lapsed. But the Orthodox have on the whole (especially in those areas which were inside Russia or Soviet sattelite states) suffered more real persecution than the majority of Catholics over the last century or so. I was in Russia though when Medved took over from Putin and it was interesting to note that they made a point of having Orthodox church leaders be key speakers during the ceremony which was good to see as there was a feeling of Russia coming aware again of it's long Christian tradition. There have been so many sad and painful episodes between the Catholic and Orthodox church that I believe both must think and act with care when dealing with each other lest we add any more episodes to our history of estrangement from one another.
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  #239  
Old Sep 1, '08, 6:01 am
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JharekCarnelian JharekCarnelian is offline
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Default Re: European Catholicism

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Originally Posted by DAPDN View Post
True, but still, there are a few Eastern Catholic Churches. And I'd like to know about the situation there - if it is as bad as in Western and Central Europe, in what concerns to Western Catholicism.
I can only really answer this question in regards to Ireland where I am from originally or the UK where I live. My wife could if asked state here opinion on Russia but as to Eastern Europe really all I can state is which countries have populaces largely from the Orthodox, Catholic or other Christian traditions and maybe some minor insights.

There are probably Eastern European people on the forum who could give more detailed answers though with insights no-one who had not lived there could offer.
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  #240  
Old Sep 1, '08, 6:06 am
deborahaz deborahaz is offline
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Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian View Post
Been married to someone Russian I have naturally mixed feelings about Chechyna. I have some sympathy been Irish for them as a small state struggling towards independence (and if you look at the way the USSR treated the Chechens you will see they do have SERIOUS grievances ) but the Chechens tactis passed the limit of acceptability with the campaign of terrorism they started wagin in Russian cities just as the IRA passed beyond any reasonable justification when they did the same. I could see a reasonable justification for fighting the Russians as they had allowed them de facto independence but unfortunately the situation as it stands now is not what it was in the first Chechen war. Overall all though the whole situation there has been a disastrous emberassment for Russia as they cannot effectively control of reconquer what is ultimately relatively a tiny area of territory.

As regards Eastern Europle in those states which are Catholic I would hope for a revival of faith but in those states which are Orthodox I would pray for a revival of the Orthodox faith where it has lapsed. But the Orthodox have on the whole (especially in those areas which were inside Russia or Soviet sattelite states) suffered more real persecution than the majority of Catholics over the last century or so. I was in Russia though when Medved took over from Putin and it was interesting to note that they made a point of having Orthodox church leaders be key speakers during the ceremony which was good to see as there was a feeling of Russia coming aware again of it's long Christian tradition. There have been so many sad and painful episodes between the Catholic and Orthodox church that I believe both must think and act with care when dealing with each other lest we add any more episodes to our history of estrangement from one another.
yes, we need to pray for the orthodox church also. i did not mean to leave them out!! we must keep them in our prayers!!
i remember when the chechnyan terrorists took over the school in breslan, i think was the name of the town. there was a show i saw on tv about it.
what a terrible things for those children to go through.
since you are from ireland, i would like to hear of the current state of the Catholic church or christianity as a whole in ireland these days.
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