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  #1  
Old Aug 8, '08, 4:39 pm
redrosetea redrosetea is offline
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Default Do you think the Holy Grail could still exist?

I have been reading a bit a bout it. It seems like the most authentic claim could be that it is in Spain. But, I read someone from the Vatican Museum saying the grail would have been made of glass, as was the Jewish custom for passover? The one in Spain is made of stone

Have any of you been to Spain and had a peek at their Grail?
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  #2  
Old Aug 8, '08, 6:52 pm
bpbasilphx bpbasilphx is offline
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Default Re: Do you think the Holy Grail could still exist?

If Jesus of Nazareth was an historical person (as we believe) there is no reason to doubt that traces of His earthly sojourn would still exist.

The Cup of the Last Supper was probably a not-uncommon silver Kiddush cup--most of which are shaped like shot glasses.

Stone cups were also used.

Glass, not so much.
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  #3  
Old Aug 8, '08, 7:07 pm
redrosetea redrosetea is offline
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Default Re: Do you think the Holy Grail could still exist?

According to a site I read this wouldn't have been an everyday chalice..It would have just been used for passover

I was surprised when the museum guy said glass, but he said silver wouldn't have been used, because it could have been minted from old coins with the images of gods on them, and this would have been unclean....
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  #4  
Old Aug 8, '08, 7:08 pm
EasterJoy EasterJoy is offline
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Default Re: Do you think the Holy Grail could still exist?

There are a lot of things surrounding Jesus, the Passion in particular, that would have normally been unheard of. Breaking an alabaster jar worth approximately a year's wages onto someone's feet would just not have been done at that time and in that economic group. Friends such as Zaccheus, who would have been in the Jewish landed class, would have had the means and desire to provide Our Lord and the Twelve with a kiddush cup made of a noble metal. Certainly the people he hung out with showed Our Lord understood about real vs. ceremonial cleanliness. On that account, I don't think it is possible to make any kind of guess what sort of material the so-called Grail would have been made of.

Having said that, any vessel that could have been used could also have survived until now. Without divine revelation, though, it would be impossible to identify an object that has no verifiable description or means of provenance in the historical record.

Even if it were found, it would not compare in value to what we do have from that Last Supper, which is the Blessed Sacrament. Some things are beyond priceless.
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  #5  
Old Aug 8, '08, 9:33 pm
GerardP GerardP is offline
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Default Re: Do you think the Holy Grail could still exist?

There's a picture of it on Charles Coulombe's website

http://www.cheetah.net/~ccoulomb/index1.html

The grail itself would only be the cup portion. The Chalice stem etc. would have been added later.

I believe that's the one JPII used when he went to Spain. He seemed to believe it was the real McCoy.

Something that Coulombe and William Biersach said in their fireside chat on Chivalry regarding the Grail.

"Every Chalice used at every offering of the mass is the Holy Grail"
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  #6  
Old Aug 8, '08, 9:58 pm
Dawn Treader Dawn Treader is offline
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Default Re: Do you think the Holy Grail could still exist?

I have no idea whether that is the original (actually, I have to admit that with any claim of having an object such as this my initial reaction is skepticism), but I've said for a while that if you want to find the Holy Grail, all you have to do is walk to your nearest Catholic Church.
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  #7  
Old Aug 9, '08, 10:16 am
GerardP GerardP is offline
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Default Re: Do you think the Holy Grail could still exist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn Treader View Post
I have no idea whether that is the original (actually, I have to admit that with any claim of having an object such as this my initial reaction is skepticism), but I've said for a while that if you want to find the Holy Grail, all you have to do is walk to your nearest Catholic Church.
Just out of curiosity, do you believe the Shroud of Turin is the actual burial cloth of Christ?
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  #8  
Old Aug 9, '08, 5:20 pm
JharekCarnelian JharekCarnelian is offline
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Default Re: Do you think the Holy Grail could still exist?

Nope it's a medeival artistic creation - I visited my wife's home city earlier this year to meet her family. She comes from Eastern Russian, you're nearly into Siberia in fact (technically in fact she is Siberian but that's due to the oddities of the Russian administrative method of dividing oblasts) In any case we went to the museum in the city she comes from. Lo and behold there was a similar shroud very similar in style to the shroud of Turin from the 1500's in the exhibit on Islam and Christianity (as the original inhabitants of the area were nomadic Muslim tribes - although they had an er uniquely matriachal form of Islam where women were definitely the boss) .

The Holy Grail is mixed up with all sorts of Celtic and medieval legends and I place no credence on it except as as a potent (and in that way meaningful) smybol.
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  #9  
Old Aug 9, '08, 6:58 pm
Layman Layman is offline
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Default Re: Do you think the Holy Grail could still exist?

The search for the Holy Grail is a 'teaser' used by occult, quasi-masonic groups to divert people away from Christianity - gives rise to notions of being a knight (no one ever wants to be a page or a serf, funnily enough!)

The cup is not important, it's the wine it contains.

The Shroud is authentic, depending on who you talk to. Latest scientific tests suggest it is authentic. The later (radio carbon) date previously given was based on a fragment of cloth taken from medieval repairs to the artefact. The original shroud cloth dates from the time of Christ.

Then there's the odd thing that it's a photo-negative, photography only being invented recently. The fellah who developed the first photo of it nearly dropped the glass negative when he first saw it!

Be aware that a lot of half-educated people like to speculate about the Holy Grail, Turin Shroud, Kinghts Templar, etc.

I read somewhere that if someone brings the Knights Templar up in a conversation, it's a good indication they're loony.
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  #10  
Old Aug 9, '08, 7:03 pm
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estesbob estesbob is offline
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Default Re: Do you think the Holy Grail could still exist?

IIRC it was dropped in a chasm just after it was used to cure James Bond of a gunshot wound...................
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  #11  
Old Aug 9, '08, 7:08 pm
Kielbasi Kielbasi is offline
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Default Re: Do you think the Holy Grail could still exist?

Sure, it could still exist.


Other metallic cups and other items have survived from that period, so of course .


But there would be no way to authenticate it if someone came forward with it.
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  #12  
Old Aug 9, '08, 7:13 pm
redrosetea redrosetea is offline
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Default Re: Do you think the Holy Grail could still exist?

I was surprised when a Vatican Museum spokesperson suggested the grail would have been glass..I would have thought glass would have been far too expensive..but they are the expert so I guess they must know what was used
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  #13  
Old Aug 9, '08, 7:21 pm
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jmcrae jmcrae is offline
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Default Re: Do you think the Holy Grail could still exist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by estesbob View Post
IIRC it was dropped in a chasm just after it was used to cure James Bond of a gunshot wound...................
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According to Quentin Tarentino, (Kill Bill Volume 2) Clark Kent is Superman's opinion of the human race. It occurs to me that, using the same logic, Jesus of Nazareth is God's.

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  #14  
Old Aug 9, '08, 7:22 pm
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jmcrae jmcrae is offline
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Default Re: Do you think the Holy Grail could still exist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn Treader View Post
I have no idea whether that is the original (actually, I have to admit that with any claim of having an object such as this my initial reaction is skepticism), but I've said for a while that if you want to find the Holy Grail, all you have to do is walk to your nearest Catholic Church.
I agree. Since the definition of the Holy Grail is that it is the chalice of the Blood of Christ, I can say with honesty that I have drunk from the Holy Grail many, many times.
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According to Quentin Tarentino, (Kill Bill Volume 2) Clark Kent is Superman's opinion of the human race. It occurs to me that, using the same logic, Jesus of Nazareth is God's.

Tiber Swim Team - Class of 2001
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  #15  
Old Aug 10, '08, 9:50 pm
CassiusLonginus CassiusLonginus is offline
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Default Re: Do you think the Holy Grail could still exist?

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Originally Posted by Kielbasi View Post
But there would be no way to authenticate it if someone came forward with it.
Well, not technically true. Do you know how Saint Helena found the true cross?

Also, aside from the grail etc. does anybody know about the nails of the cross and Saint Longinus' spear? Cool.
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