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  #1  
Old Sep 4, '08, 7:28 am
cydonian cydonian is offline
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Default Is it sinful to lust one's wife?

Is it always a sin to 'lust', or have sexual thoughts or fantasies about one's own wife?
Say if you haven't been intimate for a while, or maybe you are physically a part for long periods of time.
Not that you are just thinking of her as an object, or because you just want sex, but becuase you love her and want to be 'with' her?
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  #2  
Old Sep 4, '08, 8:50 am
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newbetx newbetx is offline
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Default Re: Is it sinful to lust one's wife?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cydonian View Post
Is it always a sin to 'lust', or have sexual thoughts or fantasies about one's own wife?
Say if you haven't been intimate for a while, or maybe you are physically a part for long periods of time.
Not that you are just thinking of her as an object, or because you just want sex, but becuase you love her and want to be 'with' her?
There is a difference between lust and love. To lust is wrong. To love is right. There are proper thoughts about sex with her and improper thoughts.
Some may say that "anything goes" with your wife but I do not. If the fantasy you describe is more about the thrill of the sex, then you are considering her an object. (I.e., Picking her up at a bar as if she is a hooker or something.) If it more along the lines of romance (like a romantic getaway to a tropical island) then maybe not. There is nothing wrong with missing the physical intimacy with your wife when you are apart. Even for the day.
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  #3  
Old Sep 4, '08, 9:53 am
fbl9 fbl9 is offline
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Default Re: Is it sinful to lust one's wife?

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Originally Posted by newbetx View Post
There is a difference between lust and love. To lust is wrong. To love is right. There are proper thoughts about sex with her and improper thoughts.
Some may say that "anything goes" with your wife but I do not. If the fantasy you describe is more about the thrill of the sex, then you are considering her an object. (I.e., Picking her up at a bar as if she is a hooker or something.) If it more along the lines of romance (like a romantic getaway to a tropical island) then maybe not. There is nothing wrong with missing the physical intimacy with your wife when you are apart. Even for the day.
ah yes but to dwell on this matter for a period of time can open the door for one to be "weakened" in the face of temptations..especially if those temptations have been or are a problem for the person doing the fantisizing..this i know unfortunately in an my life..
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  #4  
Old Sep 4, '08, 10:59 am
iaskquestions iaskquestions is offline
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Default Re: Is it sinful to lust one's wife?

Lusting after one's wife is sinful.

"For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from unchastity; that each one of you know how to take a wife for himself in holiness and honor, not in the passion of lust like heathen who do not know God; that no man transgress, and wrong his brother in this matter, because the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as we solemnly forewarned you. For God has not called us for uncleanness, but in holiness." (1 Thes 4:3-7)
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  #5  
Old Sep 7, '08, 6:35 am
Newbie2 Newbie2 is offline
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Default Re: Is it sinful to lust one's wife?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cydonian View Post
Is it always a sin to 'lust', or have sexual thoughts or fantasies about one's own wife?
Say if you haven't been intimate for a while, or maybe you are physically a part for long periods of time.
Not that you are just thinking of her as an object, or because you just want sex, but becuase you love her and want to be 'with' her?
What you're decsribing isn't lust.
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  #6  
Old Sep 8, '08, 8:56 am
rwoehmke rwoehmke is offline
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Default Re: Is it sinful to lust one's wife?

This kind of question has come up before and for once, I would like to have someone define or describe for me what it is to "lust after one's spouse."
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  #7  
Old Sep 8, '08, 10:31 am
iaskquestions iaskquestions is offline
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Default Re: Is it sinful to lust one's wife?

Love seeks the good of another at the cost of oneself. Lust seeks the good of oneself at the cost of another.

That's the difference between love and lust! If a man seeks to pleasure himself at the cost of his wife, it's lust. If a man wants to have intercourse with his wife merely for the sake of self pleasure and not for the sake of expressing love, it is lust.
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  #8  
Old Sep 8, '08, 11:43 am
cydonian cydonian is offline
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Default Re: Is it sinful to lust one's wife?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iaskquestions View Post
Love seeks the good of another at the cost of oneself. Lust seeks the good of oneself at the cost of another.

That's the difference between love and lust! If a man seeks to pleasure himself at the cost of his wife, it's lust. If a man wants to have intercourse with his wife merely for the sake of self pleasure and not for the sake of expressing love, it is lust.
Thank you for helping to make it crystal clear to me!



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  #9  
Old Sep 8, '08, 12:11 pm
itsjustdave1988 itsjustdave1988 is offline
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Default Re: Is it sinful to lust one's wife?

CCC 2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.
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  #10  
Old Sep 9, '08, 5:13 pm
Prime Prime is offline
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Default Re: Is it sinful to lust one's wife?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iaskquestions View Post
Love seeks the good of another at the cost of oneself. Lust seeks the good of oneself at the cost of another.
By this definition, denying one's spouse of sex for selfish reasons is just as bad. Or is it not?
For instance the wife who finds sex with hubby a 'boring chore' and considers it good only for the hubby but at a 'cost' to her.
Is there any sin committed here?
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  #11  
Old Sep 10, '08, 8:54 am
itsjustdave1988 itsjustdave1988 is offline
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Default Re: Is it sinful to lust one's wife?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime View Post
By this definition, denying one's spouse of sex for selfish reasons is just as bad.
It is a sin, according to Catholic moral theology, to unjustly withhold conjugal relations among spouses.
Quote:
For instance the wife who finds sex with hubby a 'boring chore' and considers it good only for the hubby but at a 'cost' to her.
Is there any sin committed here?
No. So long as the spouse does not unjustly withold conjugal relations, she does not sin. However, there's nothing in Catholic moral theology, that I am aware of, that the spouse must not think it a "boring chore." That would be surely unfortunate for both spouses, and perhaps caused by involuntary psychological or other factors. But, overcoming what one consideres a "chore" in order to meet one's obligation would be a "cross" to carry, I would think.

I have several obligations, for example, that I think are boring chores, but ya know, I must meet my obligations as a matter of justice (e.g., to pay the bills.)
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  #12  
Old Sep 10, '08, 9:07 am
manualman manualman is offline
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Default Re: Is it sinful to lust one's wife?

As noted above, lust is not a synonym for passion.
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Old Sep 10, '08, 10:01 am
rwoehmke rwoehmke is offline
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Default Re: Is it sinful to lust one's wife?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iaskquestions View Post
Love seeks the good of another at the cost of oneself. Lust seeks the good of oneself at the cost of another.

That's the difference between love and lust! If a man seeks to pleasure himself at the cost of his wife, it's lust. If a man wants to have intercourse with his wife merely for the sake of self pleasure and not for the sake of expressing love, it is lust.
So if a husband and wife mutually enjoy each day "the embrace" morning and night and sometimes at noon as well would be perfectly OK? Would that be considered inordinate?
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  #14  
Old Sep 10, '08, 10:07 am
Militant Ellen Militant Ellen is offline
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Talking Re: Is it sinful to lust one's wife?

I'm trying to figure out in my practical reality,how it's part of the Lords' Plan..The Lord knows us better than any soul..

Lust,passion,you betcha ,if there is anyone I can "sin"with in this way it's my husband.(With all reverence and dignity for the "theology"of his body!,of course!) I "love" him more fully now than I ever did as a young bride,and I'm not talking strictly sexually.,our marriage union has grown and is growing in love and "Com-Passion"for each other.
We both strive to live our lives centered on the Lord .There is such tremendous joy involved in sharing in that together.Vulgar discussion demeans the sacramentality of My union,so I won't go there,but I will say I think my husband is a "Hottie"!
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  #15  
Old Sep 10, '08, 3:38 pm
itsjustdave1988 itsjustdave1988 is offline
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Default Re: Is it sinful to lust one's wife?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwoehmke View Post
So if a husband and wife mutually enjoy each day "the embrace" morning and night and sometimes at noon as well would be perfectly OK? Would that be considered inordinate?
If done with modesty, it would not be considered inordinate (not ordered).

It would only be considerd morally disordered if such pleasure was sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes. It is "ordered" desire, otherwise.

Does that mean that when one desires their spouse, they must also desire the birth of another child? No. That's not what "isolated from its procreative purpose" means. The Church teaches:
Quote:
"...those who in exercising it [conjugal act] deliberately frustrate its natural power and purpose [procreation and unity between spouses] sin against nature and commit a deed which is shameful and intrinsically vicious." (Casti Connubii, 54).

"... If therefore there are well-grounded reasons for spacing births, arising from the physical or psychological condition of husband or wife, or from external circumstances, the Church teaches that married people may then take advantage of the natural cycles immanent in the reproductive system and engage in marital intercourse only during those times that are infertile, thus controlling birth in a way which does not in the least offend the moral principles which We have just explained. (20)
Neither the Church nor her doctrine is inconsistent when she considers it lawful for married people to take advantage of the infertile period but condemns as always unlawful the use of means which directly prevent conception, even when the reasons given for the later practice may appear to be upright and serious. In reality, these two cases are completely different. In the former the married couple rightly use a faculty provided them by nature. In the later they obstruct the natural development of the generative process. It cannot be denied that in each case the married couple, for acceptable reasons, are both perfectly clear in their intention to avoid children and wish to make sure that none will result. But it is equally true that it is exclusively in the former case that husband and wife are ready to abstain from intercourse during the fertile period as often as for reasonable motives the birth of another child is not desirable. And when the infertile period recurs, they use their married intimacy to express their mutual love and safeguard their fidelity toward one another. In doing this they certainly give proof of a true and authentic love." (Humanae Vitae, 16).
The "procreative" purpose is where most have difficulties.

Clearly, if a spouse were to demand sex, forcing themselves upon their spouse, for example, this would be a rather non-"unitive" act for a spouse. In such a case, the other purpose of marriage and conjugal acts, the "unitive," would also be isolated, and therefore disordered.

Thus, sexual desire is disordered if engaged contrary to unitive purpose of marriage, or when one acts to deliberately frustrate the intrinsic relationship of conjugal acts to the procreation of human life.
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Last edited by itsjustdave1988; Sep 10, '08 at 3:54 pm.
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