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  #1  
Old Sep 25, '08, 10:17 pm
SenorSalsa SenorSalsa is offline
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Default Franciscans of the Primitive Observance

Does anyone know anything about them, contact wise? I found these two addresses, but I don't know if they are still current or if one is better than the other to send inquiries to.

Co-Redemptrix Friary
30 Trinity Street
Lawrence, MA 01841

Mother of Good Shepherd Friary
16916 Annadale Rd.
Emmitsburg, Md. 21727


also any general info would be welcomed, as I think I have read every page for them that shows up on google, and am hungry for more
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  #2  
Old Sep 25, '08, 10:58 pm
christlight christlight is offline
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Default Re: Franciscans of the Primitive Observance

is it ok to ask why?
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  #3  
Old Sep 26, '08, 4:44 am
SenorSalsa SenorSalsa is offline
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Default Re: Franciscans of the Primitive Observance

So I can get some vocation info as well as hear a little more about them that isn't just reported by the local papers.
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  #4  
Old Sep 26, '08, 2:06 pm
bpbasilphx bpbasilphx is offline
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Default Re: Franciscans of the Primitive Observance

I checked Co-Redemtrix Friary on

whitepages.com

and came up with nothing.
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  #5  
Old Oct 21, '08, 12:59 pm
stirenaeus stirenaeus is offline
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Default Re: Franciscans of the Primitive Observance

I know for certain that the Lawrence address is current. There are six friars in Lawrence, four in Boston, and four in San Marcos, Nicaragua.

Peace and blessings.
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  #6  
Old Jan 4, '09, 9:36 pm
foolishmortal foolishmortal is offline
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Default Re: Franciscans of the Primitive Observance

I'm sorry to the moderators for replying to an old thread (and for other angry retorts to penalty mail), but, for my reasons, I think it's necessary.

Did you find more out about the FPO? You said you were hungry for more about them in a post and so am I. Do you have a phone number and/or know if they allow for one of theirs to have any medication they need every day? It's only like $36 a month (without insurance) and that could be offset by family easily, though they aren't rich.

This is the kind of Franciscan bunch I've wanted to join since falling in love with the order of St. Francis--old school. I even talked to Fr. Sweeney, but said, "No", because it wasn't a Latin Mass. I was afraid they might just be another order that allows irregularities in their Masses--at least when serving at a parish. Other than EWTN and the Canons Regular, I fear cheesiness and religious in plain-clothes at N.O. communities--at least in America and Europe. Since I started reading about them recently, I've been smacking my head for being so stupid! Still being under 35, and hearing some have joined the SPO after being a party animal, I think I might have a chance. I know it sounds romantic and might feel sucky after a honeymoon period, but my soul needs this, I feel, or it might just wither elsewhere, except maybe Clear Creek (Benedictine) Monastery, the Chartreuse one, Madonna House or other reputable places I've been to or heard about. Still, the franciscan saints, blesseds and venerables of the Franciscans have always been my favorites.

Could you help them out where they're at or travel with them, if need be, if they don't accept you or if you want them to observe you (as they probably don't have a place for observers).

Thank you!
Phil
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  #7  
Old Jan 5, '09, 9:18 am
SenorSalsa SenorSalsa is offline
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Default Re: Franciscans of the Primitive Observance

Quote:
Originally Posted by foolishmortal View Post
I'm sorry to the moderators for replying to an old thread (and for other angry retorts to penalty mail), but, for my reasons, I think it's necessary.

Did you find more out about the FPO? You said you were hungry for more about them in a post and so am I. Do you have a phone number and/or know if they allow for one of theirs to have any medication they need every day? It's only like $36 a month (without insurance) and that could be offset by family easily, though they aren't rich.

This is the kind of Franciscan bunch I've wanted to join since falling in love with the order of St. Francis--old school. I even talked to Fr. Sweeney, but said, "No", because it wasn't a Latin Mass. I was afraid they might just be another order that allows irregularities in their Masses--at least when serving at a parish. Other than EWTN and the Canons Regular, I fear cheesiness and religious in plain-clothes at N.O. communities--at least in America and Europe. Since I started reading about them recently, I've been smacking my head for being so stupid! Still being under 35, and hearing some have joined the SPO after being a party animal, I think I might have a chance. I know it sounds romantic and might feel sucky after a honeymoon period, but my soul needs this, I feel, or it might just wither elsewhere, except maybe Clear Creek (Benedictine) Monastery, the Chartreuse one, Madonna House or other reputable places I've been to or heard about. Still, the franciscan saints, blesseds and venerables of the Franciscans have always been my favorites.

Could you help them out where they're at or travel with them, if need be, if they don't accept you or if you want them to observe you (as they probably don't have a place for observers).

Thank you!
Phil
No problem, since then I have actually found a guy who had visited them, and got the "vocations brochure" they hand out(a typed page that was probably threefolded by hand by the friars). I can assure you that the below link is word for word what is on that brochure.

http://www.head-of-holofernes.com/fpos.htm
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  #8  
Old Jan 5, '09, 10:53 am
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Default Re: Franciscans of the Primitive Observance

foolishmortal,
As someone who is still in formation to SFO I suggest you be careful. You should carefully discern how you are feeling and whether you are called to a religious order. If you feel cheesiness in "all N.O. communities" and can only join a community that uses the Latin Mass then religious life may not be for you yet. St. Francis above all preached obediance to the church. If you are going to Masses and only finding the faults in Masses you may be doing the same thingt that is talked about in scripture where you are addressing the flake in someone's eye while ignoring the plank in yours. Yes abuses may occur during Mass and depending on where you live they may be a lot of them, but not all Ordinary Form Masses contain abuses. There are also different types of abuses, abuses that affect validity of the Mass and are major should be viewed differently then things that don't.

Just because a Mass may be in Latin doesn't mean it is any more obediant then the ordinary form of the Mass.

As far as FPO goes, many groups in the past have tried to live exactly as Francis did and by his rule and none have succeeded for long. Either they disbanded or ended up being similar to other First or Third Order Franciscan groups. It is admirable that they are doing but you need to look into yourself and find out if that is what you are really looking for and why you are looking for it. Make sure you are looking for it for the right reasons. There are many different Franciscan groups out there, each with different personalities, callings, and degrees of obediance. Part of discernment is finding the right group.
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where there is error, truth;
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  #9  
Old Jan 5, '09, 2:55 pm
foolishmortal foolishmortal is offline
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Default Re: Franciscans of the Primitive Observance

I am just very cautious about N.O. orders as they have declined in numbers for very objective reasons, which I mentioned in my last post. A poster on a blog mentioned tv watching going on and I've heard of clergy and religious of our and other religion being hooked into porn, of all things!

This tradition with a small "t" thing is true and all (and an outdated puritanical response to an overdependence on externals that overlooked mass psychology and thus, modern people), but as wrong as it is to leave the Church because of pre-V2 traditions being tossed out, it is a fact that people actually do like formality in rites and paganism is rising in the West, because, if people don't give up faith and become like Bill Maher or George Carlin, they will be drawn to religions that respect their patrimony in practical ways. That'd the way it is. I appreciate your concern, but the board over your eye passage sounds a bit judgmental and often used by those who look for the bright side against anyone complaining about how the Church runs things these past 4 decades. The Latin Masses are done without the scandal. They respect the Faith and its boundaries. They know what happens if you greenlight average Catholics, who are usually not well-informed, looking for lightening of restrictions, or are uncatechized to mix it up with those of other faiths in these ecumenical events or at others' churches (where devils reside to lie to the people about what God wants us to believe). The same goes for bad books written by them and secularists. Sadly, most Catholic bookstores sell those. The Church assumes we won't get confused. The Latin Mass orders don't even want their people checking this stuff out as the "one bad book can ruin a convent" adage goes. They know what the Vatican 2 era clergy will not admit is true, despite all the defections and heretics thinking they are in good standing with God. I don't know if the FPO gets into those, but it seems they, anyway, will know their faith and their plan seems virtuous. Living a rough life builds character, so as long as they stick to their guns, they'll be protected from much those of established communities are not. The F.I. and the EWTN monks are still possibilities.

If only the Church had been learning from what happened to St. Francis's order when disciplines were lightened. The allowing of people to go to Mass on Sundays instead of the holy day most times, clergy and religious not wearing their uniform (I saw Buddhists in S. Korea wearing theirs--even in summer, thus not thinking it was too hot, old-fashioned, too separating from the people, etc.) the dropping of ember days, etc. have, measurably, resulted in our corruption as we average slobs are not all with the faith of the early Benedictines, Franciscans, etc.. Thanks to the disinterest in exorcisms by many bishops and the sloppy rite put together from scratch, the possessed are going to suffer more.

I hear the Mormons are gathering Catholic big numbers in Guatemala. Most of my family (extended ones included), believe something heretical. Maybe that, not a plank over my eye, is what has me pointing my finger judgmentally.

This one, though, looked the best of Franciscan orders--and I could have been looking at the FI, which does Latin Masses. They may get lame later, but it's far less weakened than ones that have been around and individual communities, unlike the Catholic Church, could go extinct. I think we have an obligation to join a community that is in good shape, if we're going to join a religious community, because consecration in that way is serious business and you are a bigger target for Satan. We all cannot be strong like the reformers of orders, so, if the good order goes sour, we'll just have to hope and pray we are. Hopefully, the Church will wise-up and enforce bishops to do their shepherding jobs right or not be in charge and will wise-up in the mass-psychology department. It's not just my opinion. We all have a right to right teaching. It saddens me to "see" how irregularities in liturgy, music, architecture, etc. must be scandalizing believers. God cannot exist in a soul where Satan is allowed to dominate; how can God speak to us where a Mass is the priest's show?

Thanks Senor Salsa!
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  #10  
Old Jan 5, '09, 4:38 pm
Waldron Waldron is offline
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Default Re: Franciscans of the Primitive Observance

My brother is an FPO currently at their friary in Nicaragua.
I must say that I've never seen him happier in his entire life. There is a certain level of happines that can only be achieved when a man lives every minute in servitude to God.
Please email me if I can help assist you with contact information.
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  #11  
Old Jan 6, '09, 6:17 am
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Default Re: Franciscans of the Primitive Observance

Honestly foolishmortal your last post shows me how not ready you are for a religious order yet, especially a Franciscan order. If you took my post as judgemental and an attack then you are not grasping the ideals of the Franciscan order. Key ones being continual conversion/penance and humility.

You sound like you have been blindsided by the traditionalist movement within the church. The Latin Mass is not without abuse. All versions of the Mass can be abused and have been abused. Has the Ordinary form of the Mass been abused by many people? Yes. Are all Ordinary form Masses abused, NO! Can an Ordinary form Mass be just as religious/solemn as a Extraordinary form Mass, yes. Have you ever attended a noon Mass at the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception? Have you attended the Holy week liturgies at the Franciscan monastery in DC? The difference between the Ordinary Mass and the Extraordinary Mass is a preference, if you are judging an Order or group just on that preference you may find yourself in a group that is similar to the Pius X society.

If you are going to Mass and looking at minor abuses and getting angry, you really should be concentrating on what is important in Mass and worshipping God. St. Francis would kiss the hands of any priests he would meet, whether they were in scandel or not because those were the hands that make Jesus present to the world.

You also talk about people not being allowed to do this and that in different religious orders. That is another difference between Franciscans and those that are not. Franciscans are supposed to live in the world not apart from the world as Benidictines do. Yes, they should avoid pornography and things like that but that goes with everyone being sinners. I doubt any community tells their members to view pornography. Any order that has to live in the world gets exposed to temptation, it is how they deal with it that shows what they are.

You mention the church doing this and the church doing that, instead you should be concentrating on your religious journey. If you are just looking for an escape from your past or the problems of the world you will not find it in any religious order. ALL religious orders have issues. and you cannot escape from yourself ever.

If you have not already done so, read some books about St. Francis, especially those written by people like Thomas of Celano and others that were around during his life. Get a feel for what the Order was like and the actual ideals of the Order.
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Lord, make me an instrument of Thy peace;
where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury, pardon;
where there is error, truth;
where there is doubt, faith ...

Last edited by Marauder; Jan 6, '09 at 6:36 am.
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  #12  
Old Jan 6, '09, 7:50 am
Shin Shin is offline
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Default Re: Franciscans of the Primitive Observance

I too am only interested in learning about religious orders that practice the Latin mass.

It is not a sign of immaturity or otherwise to prudently believe this is the best course. I think those who protest that this is the case judge and protest too much.

It is a very good sign to see the Latin mass practiced by a religious order, because it is superior in form in many ways to the Novus Ordo -- yes one mass can in its form be superior to another, just as one priest can flub the same type of mass and another do it very well. So it is perfectly natural to desire a Latin mass with its superiority of form in reverence and tradition -- or alternatively a Byzantine liturgy vs. the Novus Ordo as generally practiced.

While each mass is of infinite value and part of Calvary, man being finite, does not receive infinite value from it -- he receives a finite amount according to his capacity, and depending upon his reverence and devotion at it. Which is only a part of why form is important.

Anyone who wants to see what superiority of form means only has to look at the F.S.S.P.'s mass instructional DVD to see how -much- is put into it, compared to a Novus Ordo mass.

That being said let's not get too sidetracked from the thread topic eh?

I would love to find a directory of religious orders who solely use the extraordinary form of the mass and are completely submitted to the authority of the Church.
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Old Jan 6, '09, 8:03 am
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Default Re: Franciscans of the Primitive Observance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shin View Post
It is not a sign of immaturity or otherwise to prudently believe this is the best course. I think those who protest that this is the case judge and protest too much.
I think the problem is that people that are looking at a religious order and using whether they use the Extraordinary Form of the Mass as the sole indication of the faithfulness, suitability, etc. is blinding themselves to what is out there. There are many great Orders that use the Ordinary form of the Mass. The graces extended by either Mass are identical. To believe otherwise is to not believe in the Church and its hierarchy.

It is one thing to have whether they celebrate the Extraordinary form as one item on a large check-list or items. It is another thing to have it as the only thing.
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  #14  
Old Jan 6, '09, 9:49 am
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Default Re: Franciscans of the Primitive Observance

[quote=Shin;4631258
...........I would love to find a directory of religious orders who solely use the extraordinary form of the mass and are completely submitted to the authority of the Church.[/QUOTE]

The member "Cloisters" or "Cloister" here on CAF has such a list, mainly for women, but prolly also including men.
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  #15  
Old Jan 6, '09, 4:16 pm
foolishmortal foolishmortal is offline
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Default Re: Franciscans of the Primitive Observance

I'm sorry marauder. I'm not a crusader who knows he is impervious to corruptions within a community. Thus, whatever order does Mass the way it is meant to be done for whatever rite--nothing more and nothing less--is the correct one. Ones that wear the habit means something as do those where they don't. Ones that do--you know, it is kind of Puritanical how the old ways were tossed out decades ago. Some priests put them back in. That's good, but if the liturgy is separated by announcements before Mass is over or children's bulletin time comes before "Mass is ended", it does noone any benefit to feverishly hold on to whatever positive things were done. If Mass is done correctly, no harm has been done. I'm tired of hearing how great the N.O. is when its fans in high places let us have the priest's show (it may be well-intentioned, but we've seen the road many Catholics have taken since the N.O. after these good intentions were popular). I'd like to see the N.O. of whatever rite always without innovations outside of the places you've mentioned.

I understand how it is to feel you need to keep people around so you want to lighten things up. I tried teaching English in S. Korea in a cram school. If the kids complain about something, their parents may pull them out. That doesn't make the boss happy. I had a boss that cared about their education, but still. Still, the students lose respect for the teacher and whatever is taught if the teacher is a softy. That's the way it is. We are not helping priests by looking at the bright side. We have a right to a proper liturgy and that is only harsh and inflammatory to ones not seeing things clearly due to something or other. We also don't help gays by "accepting them" or Protestants by believing they are just as ok being Protestants (how often do people get perfect contrition?). We would help priests by pressuring bishops to support them in being firm and promoting the border security of our Faith against Protestant and other ideas from Satan, like modernism, from entering our souls.

The judge not and the board over the eyes remarks can be used subconsciously, by the well-meaning, as a judgment upon your soul. My sins are always before me as one suffering from scrupulosity.

Regarding the Latin Mass. It's not just the Mass. We got a blessing of gold, Frankincense and myrrh for those who brought them and an exorcism prayer was said over them. The same went for the chalk, which was given out with instructions. We got a True Cross blessing after one Mass and a Sacred Heart blessing after another recently. Baptisms get the exorcism prayer said over them as their bodies are fallen. I mean, they, provided their instruction and organization is reputable, have the tools; they have the talent! N.O. orders that are orthodox may be good places for the soul (I know there's problems that can come up, but the newer communities, N.O. or Latin Mass style, are still in better shape), but the Latin Mass ones (in full obedience, of course) are safer. Still, because of the way they are living, ones like the FPO would be good enough. If they got lazy about something, hopefully, I'd be a full member and able to weather the storm after quality time spent in good times.
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