Habits vs. No Habits

[BarbaraTherese]

Apparently the Poor Clares in Bethlehem Monastery in Virginia do not remove veil and coif to work outside in the fields, I particularly noticed this picture because it brought back memories of when penance could be absolutely cruel, especially in the Australian summer out in the garden. I noticed too in the picture below that the sisters in the fields in full habit are novices, who in the old days were tested and tried to the limit in various ways and nothing like an hour or so out in the garden in an Aussie summer with beating sun and not a breathe of wind, or worse that persistent hot north wind we can have - and in full habit trying to keep a crusty old lawnmower doing its job to the demanded standard of perfection for novices.....ahhh now that's penitential ..... when I saw the pic I hoped that it was a cold day in winter for the novices.............it can be a demanding life and an extremely happy one if you are called to the life, and nothing quite like just listening quietly to the happy joyous gentle ripple of conversation and laughter of nuns at recreation. It used to remind me of the tinkling of different kinds of bells...........the website really is worth looking at.

[CarmeliteGirl25]

Originally Posted by BarbaraTherese

Apparently the Poor Clares in Bethlehem Monastery in Virginia do not remove veil and coif to work outside in the fields, I particularly noticed this picture because it brought back memories of when penance could be absolutely cruel, especially in the Australian summer out in the garden. I noticed too in the picture below that the sisters in the fields in full habit are novices, who in the old days were tested and tried to the limit in various ways and nothing like an hour or so out in the garden in an Aussie summer with beating sun and not a breathe of wind, or worse that persistent hot north wind we can have - and in full habit trying to keep a crusty old lawnmower doing its job to the demanded standard of perfection for novices.....ahhh now that's penitential ..... when I saw the pic I hoped that it was a cold day in winter for the novices.............it can be a demanding life and an extremely happy one if you are called to the life, and nothing quite like just listening quietly to the happy joyous gentle ripple of conversation and laughter of nuns at recreation. It used to remind me of the tinkling of different kinds of bells...........the website really is worth looking at.

The Poor Clare nuns of Belleville, IL, don't remove their veil or coif either to do work. They have a video on their website that demonstrates a day in the life of. http://www.poorclares-belleville.info/video/begin.htm I watched it and almost called them right afterwards because I had tears streaming down my face (call me impulsive), but I believe it was just because I strongly desire the austerity similar to them, but I belong to the Carmelites.

[BarbaraTherese]

Originally Posted by CarmeliteGirl25

The Poor Clare nuns of Belleville, IL, don't remove their veil or coif either to do work. They have a video on their website that demonstrates a day in the life of. http://www.poorclares-belleville.info/video/begin.htm I watched it and almost called them right afterwards because I had tears streaming down my face (call me impulsive), but I believe it was just because I strongly desire the austerity similar to them, but I belong to the Carmelites.

I dont have realtime player. My son will be here Monday from interstate and I'll ask him about downloading it and maybe then I will be able to have a look at the website.

Removing veil and coif especially for manual work around garden and cloister is certainly common sense I think. They can be terribly restrictive especially the old style veil and coif and the head become terribly itchy in summer especially - and working in them most uncomfortable. When they first came into being women in society wore a coif of type with a veil of type and hence it was cultural all those hundreds of years ago. I think the habit came into being to standardize clothing inside the cloister as noble women wore beautiful clothing (same even entered with their servants and jewellery) and the peasant type sister poor peasant clothing. There were quite a few factors back those hundreds of years ago that cried out for standardization inside the cloister. Hence some of religious life tradition came about due to necessity. Necessity being the mother of invention. Hundreds of years later the question "Why?" to some monastic practises, drew the answer "Tradition" which was enough to silence the most curious and desiring to understand.........a "magic" word one just did not question. Certainly I think that within Catholic society even today the religious habit for sisters and nuns is cultural, so much so that the religious habit speaks of the presence of Christ and The Gospel in society and is recognized by all in the general society as such. Consistency will bring about cultural change, no matter the culture. The pendant cross on shoulder or on a chain also announces Christ and The Gospel today. Certainly here in Australia distinctive pendant crosses on the shoulder or on a chain readily identify the woman as a religious sister of some kind, though in secular clothing. This is generally recognized by society here without problems...........consistency has brought about change in our culture. It actually has advantages re evangelization over and above the habit. People dont ask women in religious habits if they are nuns - they take it for granted they are. But with the pendant or chain, people often ask if one is a religious, which immediately introduces the subject of Catholicism.

I know of one monastic community today who only wear their veils to Chapel and parlour. The veil is a modified one. I have certainly thought that those that persevered in religious life and especially perhaps monastic life pre V2 certainly did have vocations as one just could not persevere without one and all the necessary Graces to persevere with sanity and sense of humour intact.
There is a place for, and vocations and calls to, traditional religious life........there is also a place and vocations and calls to new forms of religious living and life. There is a place for the habit, just as there is a place for secular clothing.......even a combination of the two. There is a place for a completely new design of 'habit' - what after all IS in a name?These are all matters of clothing ("be not anxious about what you are to wear")

Matthew 6
26 Behold the birds of the air, for they neither sow, nor do they reap, nor gather into barns: and your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are not you of much more value than they? 27 And which of you by taking thought, can add to his stature by one cubit? 28 And for raiment why are you solicitous? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they labour not, neither do they spin. 29 But I say to you, that not even Solomon in all his glory was arrayed as one of these. 30 And if the grass of the field, which is today, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, God doth so clothe: how much more you, O ye of little faith?

No matter what one wears, we are all religious sisters of type and sister servants of the same Lord and Master............it is the type of sister servant that greatly varies. Consider the colour green in nature......can you find two colours green precisely the same.......or the leaves on trees and plants, are any two precisely the same in colour or design? Unity in diversity and diversity in unity.
"You are the child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars, you have a right to be here.
And whether it is clear to you, or not........no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should" (Desiderata)

Room for all on this 'ere ship!

Barb

[BarbaraTherese]

Originally Posted by CarmeliteGirl25

The Poor Clare nuns of Belleville, IL, don't remove their veil or coif either to do work. They have a video on their website that demonstrates a day in the life of. http://www.poorclares-belleville.info/video/begin.htm I watched it and almost called them right afterwards because I had tears streaming down my face (call me impulsive), but I believe it was just because I strongly desire the austerity similar to them, but I belong to the Carmelites.

I watched it and almost called them right afterwards because I had tears streaming down my face (call me impulsive),

Never be afraid to invest fully in who you are, CG! I love that hymn "Come as you are, that's how I want you". I heard somewhere or other this great maxim "Be yourself, because everyone else is taken".
But I first cottoned on to what can happen in relationships from Bob Dylan, who taught me much! True contemplatives are listeners and can hear the voice of The Holy Spirit all around them in the whole of creation without exception..........for The Holy Spirit is not a snob and certainly not a spiritual snob. I first learnt this from a contemplative nun I know who used to amaze me with the wonderful lessons and thoughts she could draw from most anything and everything. For her the whole universe certainly was alive with the Spirit of God.

"I try to be myself, but everyone else wants me to be just like him". (Bob Dylan)

Wanting others to be like me and being wary of those who are different from me, is a way of my insecurities about myself being dealt with (in a way that is totally illusion and delusional) I start to feel deludedly secure because I fit in with all the rest and they fit in with me...........I am just like everyone else and everyone else is just like me and we can ignore the rest as "mentally ill" . Psychology calls it "the herding instinct". And individuality is supressed first by the self and then also by society and so Ann Raynd "Anthem" had a very valid point as her central theme. We suppress our individuality because we dont want to face the truth of matters that we really are alone in this universe, I am unique and a one off only as every single creature is.........borne out by the fact that at final judgement we must stand absolutely alone before God becuase that is where we always are - before He who knows me and all as well as we know ourselves, in fact better than that.
True individuality and an individual who is true to self cannot compromise community and the common good - it is totally illogical and impossible since both flow from God and can God compromise Himself?

Bears thought!

.

[BarbaraTherese]

From another post and another thread:

"some communities of course refused to do even that and refused to modernize at all as the Holy Father had instructed - this is something that those who cry "Disobedient!" for those that have decided to abandoned the religious habit and old ways do not consider - that is their own disobedience."


See my Post HERE

A document that I think every person considering a religious vocation and all others interested in religious life should read with prayerful careful reflection:

http://www.cin.org/v2relig.html

ADAPTATION AND RENEWAL OF RELIGIOUS LIFE Perfectae Caritatis

The document needs to be read very carefully and prayerfully, as one part can be qualified/balanced by another part.

Removing my signature, I've taken up enough space for sure in this thread! I have decided to leave school at least until mid 2009 when I will review my decision. This gives me free time (apologies! ) just until I adjust to having free time and will be a time of reviewing Bethany here as a lifestyle but not my commitment to Bethany.


.

[1234]

Originally Posted by BarbaraTherese

From another post and another thread:




Removing my signature, I've taken up enough space for sure in this thread! I have decided to leave school at least until mid 2009 when I will review my decision. This gives me free time (apologies! ) just until I adjust to having free time and will be a time of reviewing Bethany here as a lifestyle but not my commitment to Bethany.
.

Wha'?! Who??

Explain please!

--there is a very nice remnant of Bethany in Maine--Dominicans

http://w3.ime.net/~sisterop/

[BarbaraTherese]

Originally Posted by 1234

Wha'?! Who??

Explain please!

--there is a very nice remnant of Bethany in Maine--Dominicans

http://w3.ime.net/~sisterop/

Apologies! .............I am 63yrs old and until about a week ago had been a student at an adult campus (Sth. Aust) after giving it much thought over an extended period, I decided to leave for a while and review the lifestyle here I call "Bethany"..........I am under private vows to this way of life, which is simply a quite radical following of the Gospel in the spirit of Martha and Mary and Lazurus who lived in Bethany. I am under private vows (priest director) to the evangelical counsels.. I live alone.
I have impediments to traditional religious life and now age too here is against me - so I decided (putting things in the nutshell) to invent my own way of religious living.....though it unfolded in my path rather than an actual working out process undertaken. I have lived this way for over 25yrs now.

Over this break from school I will decide whether I will perhaps take up voluntary work or return to counselling on a voluntary basis (I am a trained counsellor) - or perhaps return to school. If none of those, then I will have decided to live a more intense contemplative lifestyle though with an apostolate, but this is another story.

Because I am in South Aust. and a different time zone from the majority on CAF here, I am usually up and about including on CAF while all others on CAF are asleep - hence I tend to post at times a number of posts into the one thread and my signature does take up a bit of space, so in the hope of creating the illusion I am not posting so much ........now and then I remove my signature

Barb

[Sister Helena]

I agree that this discussion will never end because, unfortunately, the pluralistic interpretation of Religious Life has splintered in the course of the ages. There is definitely a strong religious activism also going on in the Church and there will always be plenty of reasons and justifications over something if one is bent to prove one's case. I am a Carmelite Religious who wears the habit. I am convinced of its importance and meaning. I don't believe that the habit is a mere option. The Church in her documents is very clear that Religious should wear a religious garb which will identify them as consecrated women. Religious Life is a life of consecration and mission.
Opposition to the habit ranges from the intellectual to the personal. There will never be any want of a reason or explanation for something if one is bent in finding it. The habit truly does not make or define a Religious. But it is a constant reminder to the one who wears it that she is called to a life of self-forgetfulness, obedience, poverty and chastity.
It can be a turn-off for some people, but only initially. Once they get passed the external (habit) they react to the person normally. This can also happen both ways with a habited Sister- you can turn off an initial response of respect and admiration into disgust and disappointment because she has not lived up to the symbolism her habit is hoping to convey.
For practical side of things, a habit frees you from thinking of what clothes to wear or things like that.
But I agree with someone here who suggested that if you are discerning for the right community for you, spend your time on those which embodies what you are looking for and don't even waste time on the ones that don't attract you at all. The fiield of the Lord is huge and there are many mansions for everyone. It is sad though that we have to go through this dissensions and create a stumbling block for those who are searching.
I am happy with my Carmelite vocation and intend to stay with Rome.

[AllyC1991]

Although I feel wrong in criticizing any Religious Orders, I do not like the Orders that do not wear habits. For one thing, I can't take them seriously as Sisters, no matter how they act. They just don't seem like they really are Sisters. Second of all, I would not realize any Sisters were actually Sisters if they came up to me. When I went to open house at the College of St. Elizabeth, the Order of Sisters on the campus do not wear habits. One of the Sisters came up to me and introduced herself as Sr. Dianne (I believe her name was). In my mind I was thinking "Are you sure? If you say so" but of course I had to be respectful. I'm not transferring there anyway.

[bigquests]

When I look at pictures of religious women on websites, It's hard not to take them as--religious women. When so many are middle aged and beyond, what I see is a middle aged woman with short hair, not much or any makeup, in a plain simple suit or white blouse, dark skirt and vest with a crucifix and/or pin on the lapel. No, it's not a full habit and veil with lots of starch and a fifteen decade rosary, but in today's world, that simple modern garb is very conspicuous. I think that it fulfills the Vatican norms. It's simple, modest, becoming and religious. Many communities appear now to have a number of options in veil/no veil, modified habit with cowl neck vs. a white blouse with vest, sweater, jacket.

There is a tendency to equate habits with growth. But there are a relatively few congregations of women that attract a lot of final professions. There are a lot of habited congregations who, according to their websites and the few published sources out there (The Guide to Religious Ministries, Institute for Religious LIfe for CMSWR members) aren't attracting many new members--that's final professions, not necessarily candidates, aspirants, postulants. One case in point is that two monasteries of Discalced Carmelite nuns closed last year--both in full habit. The aging congregations that are shrinking include many who opted to modernize, it is true. But there were too many sisters in the first place, who entered a new era that could not sustain their growth. It many be that in time the growth of the habited congregations, fueled by the web and electronic media, will stabilize, too.

[JReducation]

Speaking as a religious (one who does wear a habit) I don't know how aware the lay faithful are of how uncomfortable we who wear habits become when this conversation comes up. We (religious) do not see this as a us vs them or habit vs non habits. We see this is a question that is about charisms, history and choice. It makes us very uncomfortable when it is discussed as A vs B, because it sounds as if there are two camps of religious who are in opposition to each other. This is not the case at all. We actually work well together. We get along well and we do wonderful things together. Please don't do this to us. Don't classify us into those who look like religious and those who don't. We don't like it. You're not doing us favors. You're creating a juxtaposition in an area where we religious have none. Those of us who wear a habit do not care if another religious does not do so. We care about his/her charism.

The habit is no guarrantee that someone is faithful to the charism of the community, obedient to the founder, faithful to the Gospel, charitable in all things, prayerful and penitential. We had habits for centuries. We had sisters in habits breaking kids' arms in schools, religious molesting children, priests living in sin with men, women or both, dirty politics inside monasteries and so on. Holiness is a journey that involves the will of man and the grace of God.

When we look at the question of habits we ask ourselves what was the wish of the founder? I don't mean to be rude, but we never ask what does the laity want or what is good for the laity when speaking about a habit. The response to religious life is very much like the response to marriage. You fall in love with a charism just as a man falls in love with a woman. The habit may or may not be part of that charism.

It may have been the intent of the founder to have a habit. It may have been the intent of the founder not to have a habit. In many cases, founders did not think it was necessary. Sometimes the habit crept in because it was the thing to do. Other religious were doing it. Those religious have to examine themselves and ask if they should or should not wear a habit. They certainly should not wear it, if their founder did not want it. Just because someone else says that it makes them feel good is not a good enough reason. The founder is the patriarch or matriarch of the community. He or she is the person with the vision and to whom the Holy Spirit revealed the charism.

Even the most sinful founders were gifted by the Holy Spirit with a vision. That vision is what should govern the community. If there is a habit in that vision, it must be followed. It there is not, then one has some flexibility. If there was adamant opposition to the habit, from the founder, then there should be no habit.

A perfect example is Mother Teresa. Her vision was to found a society in which the women were Indian. She made it clear from the beginning that this was what Jesus had told her and that her sisters, whethere they came from India or America, were to be Indian in their form of dress and in their customs. Therefore, they wear a sari and bow. The European model of the habit is taboo among them. They would not trade the sari for a shorter veil, blouse and skirt, because that's not Indian. People don't know that the Missionaries of Charity also have men religious. You don't know it because Christ told Mother Teresa that he did not want them to be noticed. There rule prohibits the use of a habit by male Missionaries of Charity. They call themselves brothers, but they follow the Franciscan model. Some brothers are ordained. However, it is their mission to go through the world doing good for the poorest of the poor without being noticed. They wear no habit and no Roman collars. It would be wrong for the faithful to wish that they did so, just so that they could recognize them. Would anyone here want a Missionary of Charity to act contrary to the vision of Mother Teresa?

Some founders had a vision that included a habit and others did not. Our own founder, St. Francis, included a habit in his rule. However, he was much more liberal than St. Dominic. That's why you see only one version of the Dominican habit and literally over 100 versions of the Franciscan habit. The only rule that Francis had is that it be a tunic with or without a hood and a chord. Franciscan men and women can decide what that tunic should look like. You have many variations. You always recognize the chord. St. Clare's advice was even more flexible. She told her nuns to wear a habit that was modest, comfortable, appropriate for the climate and the culture where they found themselves. That was a radical way of thinking to include culture in the admonition.

Every community has its founder, its charism and its reasons. For some, the founders did not want them to be so visible. Another group that I just recalled that were told by their founder not to distinguish themselves in public are the Brothers of Mary. They wear whatever is worn by secular educators. Their founder wanted the to be excellent Christian teachers, not visible religious.

When I meet a religious from a religious family that I don't know, I don't ask myself why they don't do things the way that the Franciscan family does them. Take it easy on religious that do not wear a habit and be mindful that it's not about what the faithful want or like. It's about the charism that the Holy Spirit gave to the founder for the good of the religious and the world.

Pray for and support religious who are trying to be faithful to their charism, whether the charism includes a habit or not. If you're not sure of the charism, get curious. Read about it. I don't know about every founder and every charism. I just look it up or I ask them.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

[DaughterOfMary6]

I just want to point out that I started this topic in October 2008 under an old, retired screename. I no longer feel as strongly as I used to about habits. Of course, I still prefer the wearing of a habit, but I've relaxed somewhat.

[czechestowa]

Some of the best arguments I have heard about wearing the habit have come from Archbishop Fulton Sheen. It would take to much time to go in to them all here but one story im reminded of here is that of a nun without a habit who was kidnapped in San Francisco by two men who told her they were going to rape her. She told them she was a nun they said to her we dont believe you. She said to them then ring up my school. So they rang up her school. The school confirmed what she said. So they ran a knife down her back. and made the sign of the cross on it. And they said to her 'just so we'll know the next time we see you' Bishop Fulton sheen commenting on this says 'The world wont let you forget your a religious'.
You are right in saying a religious should be different this is what the word holiness means. It means 'set apart'.
Try to get hold of some of Archbishop fulton sheens tapes or cds they are well worth listening to.
May God bless you and guide you in your choice of life for him.

[DaughterOfMary6]

Originally Posted by czechestowa

Some of the best arguments I have heard about wearing the habit have come from Archbishop Fulton Sheen. It would take to much time to go in to them all here but one story im reminded of here is that of a nun without a habit who was kidnapped in San Francisco by two men who told her they were going to rape her. She told them she was a nun they said to her we dont believe you. She said to them then ring up my school. So they rang up her school. The school confirmed what she said. So they ran a knife down her back. and made the sign of the cross on it. And they said to her 'just so we'll know the next time we see you' Bishop Fulton sheen commenting on this says 'The world wont let you forget your a religious'.
You are right in saying a religious should be different this is what the word holiness means. It means 'set apart'.
Try to get hold of some of Archbishop fulton sheens tapes or cds they are well worth listening to.
May God bless you and guide you in your choice of life for him.

I was blessed enough to listen to a tape when I visited my former community during silent supper. It was the first time I'd ever heard of him and his voice stuck in my head. Then I saw him on EWTN from years past. Then my mom bought a CD about Easter with his narration. I think he follows me around quite a bit.

I was also fortunate enough to meet Fr. Andrew Apostoli who is Vice-Postulator for his cause for canonization. He told me all about him and how he was ordained to the priesthood when Bishop Sheen was Bishop of New York. Pretty cool!

[bigquests]

[quote=czechestowa;7838900]Some of the best arguments I have heard about wearing the habit have come from Archbishop Fulton Sheen. It would take to much time to go in to them all here but one story im reminded of here is that of a nun without a habit who was kidnapped in San Francisco by two men who told her they were going to rape her. She told them she was a nun they said to her we dont believe you. She said to them then ring up my school. So they rang up her school. The school confirmed what she said. So they ran a knife down her back. and made the sign of the cross on it. And they said to her 'just so we'll know the next time we see you' Bishop Fulton sheen commenting on this says 'The world wont let you forget your a religious'.
You are right in saying a religious should be different this is what the word holiness means. It means 'set apart'.
Try to get hold of some of Archbishop fulton sheens tapes or cds they are well worth listening to.
May God bless you and guide you in your choice of life for him.[/QUOTE

This story sounds apocryphal.

I don't think that a habit would protect her at all now.