Do we HAVE to vote for McCain?

[MDK]

Originally Posted by sedonaman

Yes, and they always attach some good to it to mislead the unwary, for evil must appear good to be accepted; hence, we get statements like "pro-choice" and "Obama's policies will result in fewer abortions than McCain's."

Satan has to be smooth and slick in order for people to be deceived. He couldn't have persuaded Eve or 1/3 of the angels if not deceptively persuasive. If the outer packaging showed what was on the inside, Satan wouldn't get many takers. Come to think of it, there is one in this election that has these characteristics.

[Suudy]

Originally Posted by MDK

Therefore, 0bama is disqualified. One cannot be in communion with the Pope and Magisterium, while supporting 0bama's pro-death platform.

I couldn't help but notice you are using '0' instead of 'O' for his name. And I think it is apt.

If he is elected, there will be 0 reduction in abortion.

[MDK]

Originally Posted by zab

Thank you, Katrinka

If you can come up with a better solution, that will be within the guidelines of the Bishops and Pope, then that will be a service.

Your proposals won't work for this election cycle, and are not in keeping with Catholic principles and the teachings of Bishops for what we should do in this case.

God bless those who are truly pro-life, and are seeking to do the will of the Lord.

[MDK]

Originally Posted by Suudy

I couldn't help but notice you are using '0' instead of 'O' for his name. And I think it is apt.

If he is elected, there will be 0 reduction in abortion.

Nice catch. This is true that there would be 0 reduction. 0bama really is a zero, a con man, an empty suit, supporting zero of the non-negotiables, so we as Catholics who are in communion with the Pope and Magisterium give him the proper respect and support which is zero.

[JimG]

Anyone thinking of voting for pro-abortion candidate Obama should listen to Kansas City Bishop Finn. He called in to a radio station to warn Catholic listeners against such a thing. The audio file can be found here:

http://catholickey.blogspot.com/2008...-election.html

"I’m very very concerned that we have a group of people calling themselves Catholic—‘Catholics in Alliance’, ‘Catholics United’, and so forth---which are basically providing nothing more or less than a kind of salve for the conscience of Catholics who want to vote for a pro-abortion candidate and somehow appear pro-life."

Later in the interview, the host asks this: "There are Catholics listening right now who are thinking strongly or are convinced that they will vote for Barack Obama. What would you say to them?"

Bishop Finn begins his reply with "I would say, give consideration to your eternal salvation."

[MDK]

Originally Posted by SORROWS

Once a "bad" politician like Obama takes office and opens the door to all types of atrocities like partial-birth abortion, embrionic stem cell testing and cloning, it's very very very difficult to undo the damage. Especially with removing GOD from everything as I believe he will do. In God We Trust will be a thing of the past.

This is all the devils work. We are allowing this to be a Godless society and it's being done with our own free will. Sad indeed.

Very true. The people who desire to do good in the world are not perfect, but will succeed in promoting good things and occasionally stumble or not always be able to clear the high standard bar they have.

On the other hand, those who cooperate with evil, bring much more with it as a package. 0bama has the full gamut of evils. He tries to buy people off offering money taken from someone else's pocket, if you'll just overlook all the evil of abortion promotion, or human cloning, taxpayer funding of abortion, gay marriage, opposition to babies that survive botched abortions... replacing God with government, etc.

[MDK]

Originally Posted by JimG

Anyone thinking of voting for pro-abortion candidate Obama should listen to Kansas City Bishop Finn. He called in to a radio station to warn Catholic listeners against such a thing. The audio file can be found here:

http://catholickey.blogspot.com/2008...-election.html

"I’m very very concerned that we have a group of people calling themselves Catholic—‘Catholics in Alliance’, ‘Catholics United’, and so forth---which are basically providing nothing more or less than a kind of salve for the conscience of Catholics who want to vote for a pro-abortion candidate and somehow appear pro-life."

Later in the interview, the host asks this: "There are Catholics listening right now who are thinking strongly or are convinced that they will vote for Barack Obama. What would you say to them?"

Bishop Finn begins his reply with "I would say, give consideration to your eternal salvation."

True... do they desire non-smoking or are they willing to go into the smoking section!

[zab]

Originally Posted by MDK

Are you going to follow the Pope and Bishops, or are you going to disregard their words and guides? If you will be in communion with the Pope and Bishops, you need to make an adjustment to what you've posted above, because what you've posted above does not have it's foot in reality for this election cycle.

0bama will not protect any human life from conception until birth. 0bama will expand the access to abortions, eliminate parental notification, and increase public funding for abortion... this will increase abortions according to Planned Parenthood, who know this evil business.

I have to question the source of such remarks aimed at insulting those who support a candidate who truly represents the teachings of the Catholic Church. God bless Alan Keyes for having the courage to speak the truth. And may God have mercy on those who chose not to listen to the servant He sent.

[maggiemay2u]

We HAVE to vote for McCain, only if we don't want union bosses standing over our shoulders "encouraging" us to vote for a closed shop, or if we don't mind refinancing our homes to pay for the heating bills as Obama drives the coal industry into bankruptcy....

Please remember in your prayers the 21,000 doctors, scientists, priests, authors, religious, social workers and teachers who were slaughtered in the womb by abortion this week.

NARAL projects the number will double once FOCA passes.

[cfdmpo]

Originally Posted by Roy5

A CHRISTIAN DEFENSE OF OBAMA

As always, neither candidate meets the qualifications that most of us have in mind. We usually end up voting for the one who is least offense.

I will vote for Obama because of my faith. Here are three of many reasons - briefly stated.

1. The election of Obama will electrify the world and will strengthen our position considerably against Islamic terrorism by weakening the influence of bin Laden & Co among Muslims and by increasing the trust of our allies and others in the policies and general wisdom of the USA. At the moment, most of the world regards us as gun-happy.

2. Obama had the sense to oppose the foolish and costly war in Iraq and recognized that our enemy was in the mountains and Afghanistan and neighboring Pakistan. McCain still declares that the invasion of Iraq was justified. Obama will go after bin Laden, but will also emphasize negotiation and, like Jesus, be ready to sit down with sinners. I trust God to bless his efforts. McCain and Palin, in contrast, appear too attached to military solutions, while I agree with Christ re peacemakers in his sermon on the mount.

3. The election of Obama will go a long way toward ending the racial chasm that has been so injurious for centuries in America. It will serve as a balm among African-Americans and Obama will become an influential and urgent role model for black men. Obama would be a well-spoken, moderate biracial president and will eclipse such racial exploiters as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.

I have regarded myself as a lifelong Republican, but far more important, a would-be faithful disciple of Christ. We need to be people of deeper trust in the ideology of Jesus and not in the sinister political machinations of the world.

As for the abortion issue, both parties are unlikely to make it a crime. The goal must be to make abortions rarer and rarer. I believe this is as likely, perhaps more likely, with Obama as with McCain.

I also have trouble with McCain unfaithfulness to his first wife and his remarriage to the richest woman in Arizona. And as for Palin, she makes a wonderful cheerleader, but she scares me. That whole end-times theology of version of Christianity with which she has been associated is off the wall and dangerous.

I guess I will disagree with you on all these points. You are led to believe these because that is what Obama says, but the facts are different.

Point #1 The radical nations that are the problem nations (Iran, North Korea, etc) are going to promote the destruction of the “Evil One” are not going to change their rhetoric no matter who is in the office. Their goal is a world in their image, no matter what. By the US being “gun-happy” is probably the only thing keeping these nations from attacking us through terrorism .

Point #2 Easy to say you are against going to war when you weren’t even in office to vote for it. Just for your knowledge, 98 senators voted to go to war, so a lot a people supported the war when it started. Now the going is tough, the weak leave. If it was easy to get Bin Laden, he would have been had by now, what is Obama going to do that is different? If you think that negotiations have not been tried, then you do not have a good understanding of the world and how it operates.

Point #3 The racial chasm still exists because people let it exist. If people really cared for each other, there would be no divide. I do not believe the Obama will become a role model for the black male, he is not their type. What makes you think he will be a moderate role model when he was trained by the radicals?

[sedonaman]

Originally Posted by Lujack

I do not believe the Republican party will end abortion, because[indent][/they have made no move towards doing so.

I don't think you realize what's been happening. From a letter from the Supreme Knight [of Columbus] Carl A. Anderson:

"Following the shock of the Supreme Court's decision to preempt all state and federal laws regulating abortion in Roe v. Wade in 1973, we launched a long-term battle to fight legalized abortion. While achieving the ultimate goal of overturning Roe remains somewhere in the future, we have been able to achieve many small successes along the way:

· the Hyde Amendment, which restricts federal funding for abortions;
· the federal law banning partial birth abortions, which was finally upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court in April 2007;
· the "Mexico City Policy," which has barred the use of federal taxpayers' money to pay for abortions in other countries;
· laws in 44 states that preserve a parental role when children under 18 seek abortions;
· laws in 40 states that restrict late-term abortions;
· laws in 46 states that protect the right of conscience for individual health care providers;
· laws in 27 states that protect the right of conscience for institutions;
· laws in 38 states that ban partial birth abortions;
· laws in 33 states that require counseling before having an abortion;
· and laws in 16 states that provide for ultrasounds before an abortion."

[My note: If the Democrats helped in passing any of these laws it would be news to me. Any Democrat who did help I would wager was probably run out of town on a rail by his party leadership.]

Knight Carl A. Anderson continues:

"All of these restrictions on abortion - all of the progress we've made over the past 35 years in trying to limit and reduce abortions in the United States - would be invalidated with the stroke of a pen if the next Congress passes, and the next president signs, the so-called "Freedom of Choice Act" (FOCA)."

So much for the idea that Obama will reduce the number of abortions.

[Leonius]

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. "

Not voting or voting for someone who you know is not competitive is doing nothing, if you do that Obama will win and the result will be just as bad as if you had voted for him

[sedonaman]

Originally Posted by Roy5

[b][size="3"]
1. The election of Obama will electrify the world and will strengthen our position considerably against Islamic terrorism by weakening the influence of bin Laden & Co among Muslims and by increasing the trust of our allies and others in the policies and general wisdom of the USA. At the moment, most of the world regards us as gun-happy.

It's somewhat off topic, but consider this from The Wall Street Journal, October 22, 2008"

"Barack 0bama's declaration that, if elected, he would be willing to sit down and talk to Iran 'without preconditions' has been widely discussed in this country. It's a key policy difference between him and John McCain, who rejects unconditional talks with Tehran.

"So what does the Islamic Republic think? The enterprising reporters at the state news agency recently asked a high-ranking official for his opinion on talks with the U.S. As it turns out, Iran has its own 'preconditions' and they don't suggest a diplomatic breakthrough, or even a summit, anytime soon.

"Mehdi Kalhor, Vice President for Media Affairs, said the U.S. must do two things before summit talks can take place.

First, American military forces must leave the Middle East -- presumably including such countries as Iraq, Qatar, Turkey, and anywhere else American soldiers are deployed in the region.

Second, the U.S. must cease its support of Israel.

"Until Washington does both, talks are 'off the agenda,' the Islamic Republic News Agency reports. It quotes Mr. Kalhor as saying, 'If they [the U.S.] take our advice, grounds for such talks would be well prepared.'

"Iran is one of the toughest and most urgent foreign policy problems the new U.S. Administration will face. If Mr. 0bama ends up in the Oval Office on January 20, he may find that solving it will take more than walking into a room and smooth talking to Iranians 'without preconditions.'"

Iran is not upping the price for peace because it feels "electrified" and "trust" in 0bama like so many Americans do. They are doing it because they know he is weak.

So much for 0bama's diplomacy.

[Valke2]

Originally Posted by Leonius

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. "

Not voting or voting for someone who you know is not competitive is doing nothing, if you do that Obama will win and the result will be just as bad as if you had voted for him

I think Obama takes your quotation to heart. He is a good man who refuses to do nothing.

[MDK]

Originally Posted by zab

I have to question the source of such remarks aimed at insulting those who support a candidate who truly represents the teachings of the Catholic Church. God bless Alan Keyes for having the courage to speak the truth. And may God have mercy on those who chose not to listen to the servant He sent.

Don't know why you or anyone would misunderstand... what was written was very clear and unambiguous. Do you oppose following the admonitions and guidelines published by the Catholic Bishops and the Pope?

The red herring you posed is to say the issue was about not supporting or insulting a person who touted a pro-life candidate. This is misleading and since your comment is falsely accusing, it does not provide that same consideration as I gave by not falsely accusing. Your false accusation could be considered as an insult. It is also lacking proper perspective and discernment to call what I did an attempt at insulting one or "those"... as what I wrote was honest, truthful and on target. It's exposing false arguments... and it was done honestly and openly.

The real issue was about following the true Catholic teaching of the Bishops and Pope, which I did, and was also promoting. This is clear to anyone who reads what I wrote. We must follow the Bishops. What the person was promoting was actually harmful to the Catholic principle of voting to limit the harm that may be done. What do you find wrong with taking up for the guidelines of Catholic Bishops instructing us how to do so as Catholics as we go into the voting booth?

In addition, the person who reads with understanding would easily determine that I do respect Alan Keyes. You've implied otherwise, which is another less than accurate and not an honest depiction of what I have written. That could therefore be considered an insult from you.

Why do you only say "God have mercy on those who chose not to listen to the servant He sent?" Is there no effort to straighten up and follow Him? What about God please guide those who are lost, so that they can come into communion with You and do Your Holy Will.