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  #1  
Old Oct 26, '08, 5:51 am
TBolt1000T TBolt1000T is offline
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Default traditional Catholic vs. traditionalist Catholic, any difference?

I'm not clear on exactly what the terms "traditionalist Catholic," and "traditional Catholic" mean. What are the differences if any? If I'm very orthodox in my beliefs, and I don't go against the pope or Vatican II, would I fall under one of these terms?
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  #2  
Old Oct 26, '08, 6:40 am
thistle thistle is offline
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Default Re: traditional Catholic vs. traditionalist Catholic, any difference?

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Originally Posted by TBolt1000T View Post
I'm not clear on exactly what the terms "traditionalist Catholic," and "traditional Catholic" mean. What are the differences if any? If I'm very orthodox in my beliefs, and I don't go against the pope or Vatican II, would I fall under one of these terms?
Pope Benedict told us all to stop giving labels. He said we are all Catholics.
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  #3  
Old Oct 26, '08, 6:41 am
brotherhrolf brotherhrolf is offline
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Default Re: traditional Catholic vs. traditionalist Catholic, any difference?

Interesting question. I consider myself to be a traditional Catholic in that I was baptized, made my First Holy Communion, and was confirmed before Vatican II. I am a product of 13 years of Catholic education and my conscience was formed before Vatican II.

I was in high school when we transitioned from the TLM to the NO. It's too long a story but I and my parents were marginalized to the Saturday vigil Mass in those days because of the music and everything else that went on. It took me until 1983 before I found my reverent cathedral parish. I've not looked back even though I have to drive 25 miles one way. I'd love to be able to kneel and receive the Eucharist and have never received in the hand.

That having been said, it is important to understand that we in the pews back then submitted to the Magesterium of HMC. We were faithful Catholics. I am happy that there are traditionalist Catholics. Young people who have discovered their rich and vibrant heritage. Unfortunately, they are used to protest as the norm. I'm not saying this in a pejorative manner. Lord knows it was my generation in the 70s that installed protest as a norm.

Traditional Catholics submitted to the will of HMC. My oldest son is now 27. He grew up in the cathedral parish. He has heard Gregorian chant and sacred polyphony not only in Latin but in English, French, and Spanish. He has never been to a TLM but took it upon himself to learn the Pater Noster in Latin. I was so proud of him!

The problem as I see it, is that in being a baby boomer, I DO remember HMC before Vatican II. That is the church in which I was raised. There were many in my generation who embraced what happened after Vatican II. There were many in my generation who submitted to the Magesterium of HMC. I believe that the Holy Father recognizes this dichotomy. I've waited 40 years for this. My bishop merely "recognized" the Motu Proprio. (Bureaucratese for " I hear ya' but I ain't doing nothing about it). OK. I submit to the Magesterium as I have always done.

I did not know of Cardinal Bugnini nor of the Ottovani Intervention. I could not cite you conciliar documents to this day. All I know is that there were announcements from the pulpit, "Two weeks from know we will no longer chant the Kyrie". "Two weeks from now we will no longer chant the Gloria".

I have not been to a TLM since the late 70s. I watched the Solemn High Mass on the Feast of the Holy Cross on EWTN. I didn't need my missal and I was able to respond in Latin with the acolytes, I am a traditional Catholic.
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  #4  
Old Oct 26, '08, 7:48 am
TBolt1000T TBolt1000T is offline
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Default Re: traditional Catholic vs. traditionalist Catholic, any difference?

I'm in the process of coming into the Church. However, my beliefs are more orthodox than quite a fiew Catholics I know. When it comes to music, I'm mostly a traditionalist, because of my own tastes, and there's a parish in my city that provides a NO mass with the old music. They also provide a TLM, which I may attend sometimes when I learn more about it. I personally see nothing wrong with the NO mass, and I actually like it, and I don't see anything wrong with the music, though due to my traditional music tastes, I don't like the newer music that much.

I didn't know that Pope Benedict XVI said what he said about labels, but I like his message.
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  #5  
Old Oct 26, '08, 11:44 am
JKirkLVNV JKirkLVNV is offline
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Default Re: traditional Catholic vs. traditionalist Catholic, any difference?

Pope Benedict XV in Beatissimi Apostolorum:

"24. It is, moreover, Our will that Catholics should abstain from certain appellations which have recently been brought into use to distinguish one group of Catholics from another. They are to be avoided not only as "profane novelties of words," out of harmony with both truth and justice, but also because they give rise to great trouble and confusion among Catholics. Such is the nature of Catholicism that it does not admit of more or less, but must be held as a whole or as a whole rejected: "This is the Catholic faith, which unless a man believe faithfully and firmly; he cannot be saved" (Athanas. Creed). There is no need of adding any qualifying terms to the profession of Catholicism: it is quite enough for each one to proclaim "Christian is my name and Catholic my surname," only let him endeavour to be in reality what he calls himself."
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  #6  
Old Oct 26, '08, 7:36 pm
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pnewton pnewton is offline
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Default Re: traditional Catholic vs. traditionalist Catholic, any difference?

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Originally Posted by JKirkLVNV View Post
Pope Benedict XV in Beatissimi Apostolorum:

"24. It is, moreover, Our will that Catholics should abstain from certain appellations which have recently been brought into use to distinguish one group of Catholics from another.
If that's what the boss has said, then I guess I will comply. I hope that the term "modern Catholic" will also evaporate.
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  #7  
Old Oct 26, '08, 9:52 pm
JKirkLVNV JKirkLVNV is offline
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Default Re: traditional Catholic vs. traditionalist Catholic, any difference?

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If that's what the boss has said, then I guess I will comply. I hope that the term "modern Catholic" will also evaporate.
Me, too, along with Charismatic Catholic, progressive, cranky, whatever.
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  #8  
Old Oct 27, '08, 1:31 am
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I_Believe I_Believe is offline
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Default Re: traditional Catholic vs. traditionalist Catholic, any difference?

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Originally Posted by TBolt1000T View Post
I'm in the process of coming into the Church. However, my beliefs are more orthodox than quite a fiew Catholics I know. When it comes to music, I'm mostly a traditionalist, because of my own tastes, and there's a parish in my city that provides a NO mass with the old music. They also provide a TLM, which I may attend sometimes when I learn more about it. I personally see nothing wrong with the NO mass, and I actually like it, and I don't see anything wrong with the music, though due to my traditional music tastes, I don't like the newer music that much.

I didn't know that Pope Benedict XVI said what he said about labels, but I like his message.
Hello Josh, you certainly landed in the right place. St Martin of Tours is a wonderful parish. Are you enrolled in the RCIA there ?

I could go on for hours about St Martin's. The doors are never locked, Perpetual Adoration, two of the only three skeletal remains of Saints open to public veneration, the life size statuary, the stained glass, and so much more. But hey, you already know that

I went to the 12:30 pm Mass yesterday. Fr.S is wonderful. He's 93or may have turned 94 by now. Have you met him yet ? All the priests you will meet there are wonderful of course, but Fr.S is a treasure. Please do attend his mass on Sunday of one of the 7am Low Masses on tuesday or thursday. There are red Missalettes in the church near each entrance usually. On Sunday, they have an insert with the day's Propers, but on weekdays, you can go here and print them out...
http://tridentine-mass.blogspot.com/
If it says ferial day, just scroll down and use the Propers for the previous Sunday.

If you have any questions about the TLM at St Martin's I'll be glad to help. I'm still learning the TLM, but I've got it down to where I only lose my place in the missal once or twice each time I go now.

God Bless you brother,
J+M+J
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  #9  
Old Oct 27, '08, 5:56 am
ncjohn ncjohn is offline
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Default Re: traditional Catholic vs. traditionalist Catholic, any difference?

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Originally Posted by JKirkLVNV View Post
"There is no need of adding any qualifying terms to the profession of Catholicism: it is quite enough for each one to proclaim "Christian is my name and Catholic my surname," only let him endeavour to be in reality what he calls himself."
Amen!!

Thanks for the reminder; my continued prayers that we might all keep this in mind.

Peace,
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  #10  
Old Oct 27, '08, 8:40 am
MatrAdmirabilis MatrAdmirabilis is offline
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Default Re: traditional Catholic vs. traditionalist Catholic, any difference?

I only differentiate between Novus Ordo Catholic and Traditional Catholic. I am a Traditional Catholic in that I reject the Novus Ordo and Vatican II. I consider all who do not reject it to be Novus Ordo Catholics as do my priests and fellow parishioners. I dare say some of you would not consider me to even be Catholic, but I am and I love Holy Mother Church and pray for its restoration daily.
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  #11  
Old Oct 27, '08, 8:43 am
bpbasilphx bpbasilphx is offline
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Default Re: traditional Catholic vs. traditionalist Catholic, any difference?

**I did not know of Cardinal Bugnini nor of the Ottovani Intervention. I could not cite you conciliar documents to this day. All I know is that there were announcements from the pulpit, "Two weeks from know we will no longer chant the Kyrie". "Two weeks from now we will no longer chant the Gloria".**

Which is odd, because even the 1970 Missal and various directives from Rome not only allow but encourage them to be chanted.
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  #12  
Old Oct 27, '08, 8:43 am
maurin maurin is offline
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Default Re: traditional Catholic vs. traditionalist Catholic, any difference?

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I only differentiate between Novus Ordo Catholic and Traditional Catholic. I am a Traditional Catholic in that I reject the Novus Ordo and Vatican II. I consider all who do not reject it to be Novus Ordo Catholics as do my priests and fellow parishioners. I dare say some of you would not consider me to even be Catholic, but I am and I love Holy Mother Church and pray for its restoration daily.
In your opinion, MatrAdmirabilis, who do you accept as the current Successor to St. Peter?
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  #13  
Old Oct 27, '08, 8:44 am
bpbasilphx bpbasilphx is offline
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Default Re: traditional Catholic vs. traditionalist Catholic, any difference?

**I am a Traditional Catholic in that I reject the Novus Ordo and Vatican II.**

If you reject Vatican II or any authorized rite of the Catholic Church, you are neither tradtional NOR Catholic.
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  #14  
Old Oct 27, '08, 8:49 am
MatrAdmirabilis MatrAdmirabilis is offline
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Default Re: traditional Catholic vs. traditionalist Catholic, any difference?

in my opinion, the last valid pope we had was his most Holy Pope Pius XII who died in 1958. How I wish we had another Pius XII right now guiding us through this storm.
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  #15  
Old Oct 27, '08, 8:52 am
maurin maurin is offline
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Default Re: traditional Catholic vs. traditionalist Catholic, any difference?

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In your opinion, MatrAdmirabilis, who do you accept as the current Successor to St. Peter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatrAdmirabilis View Post
in my opinion, the last valid pope we had was his most Holy Pope Pius XII who died in 1958. How I wish we had another Pius XII right now guiding us through this storm.
Allow me to clarify my question, MatrAdmirabilis: Do you accept His Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI as the current Successor of Saint Peter, The Vicar of Christ, the Head of the Visible Church on earth?
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