Is transgender a sin?

[Dale_M]

Originally Posted by brandymmiller

Nothing that the Church does is under secrecy, and I would ask where you got the information that it was.

I posted the link to the news article, which was published by the Catholic News Service.

Here it is again:
http://www.tgcrossroads.org/news/archive.asp?aid=599

Originally Posted by brandymmiller

Turn to God in prayer. Remember that prayer is a conversation with Him. Ask Him to show you what He intended when He gave you your gender. I promise you that if you seek that answer with vigilence He will reveal it to you and it wil bring you comfort and encouragement on your journey.

I'm curious about the basis of your statements about gender. Do you have transsexual feelings or do you know many persons with transsexual feelings?

[jfhh]

Originally Posted by Dale_M

I posted the link to the news article, which was published by the Catholic News Service.

Here it is again:
http://www.tgcrossroads.org/news/archive.asp?aid=599

Thanks Dale. I missed the link.

Do you have a link to the actual document too? I just want to read more about it.

[jfhh]

Dale, I noticed that contrary to what you seemed to be saying (maybe I didn't read you right), according to your link sex change operation is NOT always sinful. It appears that psychological factors can in certain extreme cases make it "morally acceptable"

http://www.tgcrossroads.org/news/archive.asp?aid=599

The Vatican document's specific points include:

* An analysis of the moral licitness of "sex-change" operations. It concludes that the procedure could be morally acceptable in certain extreme cases if a medical probability exists that it will "cure" the patient's internal turmoil.
* But a source familiar with the document said recent medical evidence suggested that in a majority of cases the procedure increases the likelihood of depression and psychic disturbance.
* A provision giving religious superiors administrative authority to expel a member of the community who has undergone the procedure. In most cases of expulsion from religious life, the superior must conduct a trial.
* A recommendation of psychiatric treatment and spiritual counseling for transsexual priests. It suggests they can continue to exercise their ministry privately if it does not cause scandal.
* A conclusion that those who undergo sex-change operations are unsuitable candidates for priesthood and religious life because of mental instability.
* A conclusion that people who have undergone a sex-change operation cannot enter into a valid marriage, either because they would be marrying someone of the same sex in the eyes of the church or because their mental state casts doubt on their ability to make and uphold their marriage vows.
* An affirmation of the validity of marriages in which one partner later undergoes the procedure, unless a church tribunal determines that a transsexual disposition predated the wedding ceremony.

[jfhh]

Dale, could you clarify for me what "sub secretum" means? Is that the Pontifical Secret?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontifical_secret

[Dale_M]

Originally Posted by jfhh

Dale, I noticed that contrary to what you seemed to be saying (maybe I didn't read you right), according to your link sex change operation is NOT always sinful. It appears that psychological factors can in certain extreme cases make it "morally acceptable"

Yep, that apparently is what the secret document says. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that sex change is always sinful. Its not a position I personally hold, and I don't think the Church always holds it either.

As for the original news article, it was published five years ago and the online archives of the Catholic News Service don't go back that far. So we are stuck with third party versions of the original.

As for the meaning of the phrase sub secretum, I don't know. I don't think I had seen it before reading the news article (which I did see five years ago).

[jfhh]

Originally Posted by Dale_M

Yep, that apparently is what the secret document says. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that sex change is always sinful. Its not a position I personally hold, and I don't think the Church always holds it either.

As for the original news article, it was published five years ago and the online archives of the Catholic News Service don't go back that far. So we are stuck with third party versions of the original.

As for the meaning of the phrase sub secretum, I don't know. I don't think I had seen it before reading the news article (which I did see five years ago).

Thanks Dale, if we can dig up this article from this canon law journal then that MAY give some further insight into the document too. Were there any other media outlets that reported it? I'm not doubting you, I just want to see if I can find any other information. I know there WILL be people who doubt you though, so I'm going to try and find it for you in the Wayback Machine

A Vatican source said the text was prepared largely by Jesuit Father Urbano Navarrete, now a retired canon law professor at Rome's Gregorian University.

In 1997, Father Navarrete wrote an article on transsexualism in an authoritative canon law journal and has been consulted by the doctrinal congregation on specific cases involving transsexualism and hermaphroditism.

[Dale_M]

Originally Posted by jfhh

I'm going to try and find it for you in the Wayback Machine

Great! I hadn't thought of that, and yes, getting the original will be more persuasive than a third party rendering of the article.

[brandymmiller]

Originally Posted by coco2

I don't think it could be a sin, and these people suffer so much.

As Catholics, we believe that suffering entered the world through sin, and so we can realistically say that the greater the sin the greater the suffering. In this case, I believe the sin was not your friend's, but someone who sinned against her. Whomever it was, and it may have been a father or a mother, an aunt or an uncle, or even a close friend - has rejected her femininity at a very young age causing her to believe that her only hope for acceptance was in siding with the masculine and attempting to emulate that. This, of course, creates a massive confusion because she cannot escape who she is mentally. She is and will always be a woman, no matter how she may try to act otherwise.

I grew up with a less severe form of gender confusion. My mother rejected her own femininity, and my stepfather (the only male in my life) called me Michael. Furthermore, he was constantly making fun of women and she belittled feminine behaviors such as discussion relationships and wearing makeup. Their rejection of my femininity made it hard for me to form friendships with other women and girls, and it made me more inclined to hang out with guys and mimic masculine behaviors in order to fit in. It still causes me some trouble, but with the grace of God I am healing and coming to appreciate my womanhood for all that it is. My confusion was man made, not God made, even though it started from such a young age.

[PoliSciProf]

Transgender issues seem to me to be quite different than those of homosexuality. Here is an excellent article from the November 2008 issue of the Atlantic Monthly which all posters to this forum should read before rushing to judgment.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/20081...ender-children

[Epistemes]

A heterosexual, transgender man with a girlfriend:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwD6mjsZveI

[aspawloski4th]

Im going to Mass as the woman I truely am this morning.

[scarlet19]

I do accept my sexual identity. I am a woman. However, I have a birth-defect: a Y-chromosome.

Transgenderism/transsexuality is not something which is man-made in all cases. I came from a normal family, was raised by loving parents, have two sisters. I was never abused, nor was my masculinity ever impugned--in fact it was encouraged.

But there was always something indicating that all was not right, actions that set me apart from other boys. I had a fascination with my sisters' toys (though my attention eventually shifted to my Star Wars and Batman toys) and even their dance things. I recall feeling jealous when I saw them in skirts, though I never wore women's clothing until recently.

The way I see things, God created a good world. But the Fall resulted in changes to the world, which is why we have birth defects, cancers, and everything. My particular case is only an extreme one, and another sad consequence of Original Sin. With Jesus Christ the world is renewed, though the effects will linger until His work is done.

[coco2]

God bless you, Scarlet. I'll be praying for you. I'm sure your life journey will be more difficult than most.

[Biblioassistant]

I don't know. There's a woman in my department at work who has recently announced that she's identifying as a man. She was always a very "manly" kind of woman so I am not surprised. I have an in-law whose brother dresses and acts like a woman. I love this guy, he really is a nice guy, but dear Lord he is one confused individual. All I can do is pray, and leave them to God and His mercy.

[brigid12]

No, I do not think so, since the huge amount of hurt (lifelong) is/has been creating a severe penance in itself. Trust Him! Pray and discern clearly (including not going against what the Magisterium says about disordered actions) as to what the Lord wants for this person to do.