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  #1  
Old Dec 12, '08, 9:22 am
OneTrueCathApos OneTrueCathApos is offline
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Default Positive Proof The Catholic Church Is The Only True Church

The proof lies in the fact that the Catholic church alone corresponds exactly to the exact religion established by Christ. Now, the Christian religion is that religion which--
a.) Was founded by Christ personally
b.) Has existed continuously since the time of Christ;
c.) Is Catholic or Universal, in accordance with Christ's command to go to all the the world and teach all nations;
d.) Demands that all her members admit the same doctrine;
e.) Exercises Divine authority over her subjects, since Christ said that if a man would not hear the Church he would be as the heathen.

Now the Catholic church alone can claim--
a.) To have been founded by Christ personally. All other churches disappear as you go back through history. Christ said "Thou art Peter, and upon this Rock I will build my church." Matt 16:18
There are many claimants to the honor of being Christ's Church. But among all non-Catholic Churches, we find one built by John Wesley, another on a Martin Luther, another on a Mrs. Eddy, etc..
But the Catholic church alone can possibly claim to have been built on Peter, the chief of the Apostles, and one-time Bishop of Rome.
b.) To have existed in all the centuries since Christ
c.) That every one of her members admits exactly the same essential doctrines
d.) To be Catholic or Universal
e.) To speak with a voice of true authority in the name of God.

  #2  
Old Dec 12, '08, 9:38 am
Hisalone Hisalone is offline
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Default Re: Positive Proof The Catholic Church Is The Only True Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneTrueCathApos View Post
The proof lies in the fact that the Catholic church alone corresponds exactly to the exact religion established by Christ. Now, the Christian religion is that religion which--
a.) Was founded by Christ personally-presupositionb.) Has existed continuously since the time of Christ;-presuposition
c.) Is Catholic or Universal, in accordance with Christ's command to go to all the the world and teach all nations;-presuposition
d.) Demands that all her members admit the same doctrine;
e.) Exercises Divine authority over her subjects, since Christ said that if a man would not hear the Church he would be as the heathen.-presuposition

Now the Catholic church alone can claim--
a.) To have been founded by Christ personally. All other churches disappear as you go back through history. Christ said "Thou art Peter, and upon this Rock I will build my church." Matt 16:18
There are many claimants to the honor of being Christ's Church. But among all non-Catholic Churches, we find one built by John Wesley, another on a Martin Luther, another on a Mrs. Eddy, etc..
But the Catholic church alone can possibly claim to have been built on Peter, the chief of the Apostles, and one-time Bishop of Rome. -presuposition
b.) To have existed in all the centuries since Christ-presuposition
c.) That every one of her members admits exactly the same essential doctrines
d.) To be Catholic or Universal-presuposition
e.) To speak with a voice of true authority in the name of God.-presuposition

  #3  
Old Dec 12, '08, 9:41 am
AshleyBelle AshleyBelle is offline
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Default Re: Positive Proof The Catholic Church Is The Only True Church

I noticed that you consider the claim of the Church to have existed since the time of Christ to be a "presupposition."

How do you account for the documented fact that we can trace apostolic succession all the way back to Peter?
  #4  
Old Dec 12, '08, 9:51 am
Shai22 Shai22 is offline
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Default Re: Positive Proof The Catholic Church Is The Only True Church

Matthew 16:18 was misinterpreted.

Matthew 16:17-18 Is speaking about TRUTH, Jesus called Peter a rock, (solid) because Peter was solid in the Truth.

Jesus said he will build his church on solid truth. He didn't say it would Catholic, Judaism, Islamic or any other church. All he said was that he will build his church on solid truth.






Shai22
  #5  
Old Dec 12, '08, 9:56 am
phil8888 phil8888 is offline
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Default Re: Positive Proof The Catholic Church Is The Only True Church

Jesus said Peter is the Rock. He didn't say you just said "rock", he said you ARE Rock. Peter = Rock. So Jesus said, "Upon Peter I will build my Church".

Peter understood his role as the Rock, because we can see in the Acts of the Apostles, the apostles always go to Peter for the last word whenever there's an argument or disagreement.
  #6  
Old Dec 12, '08, 10:05 am
OneTrueCathApos OneTrueCathApos is offline
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Default Re: Positive Proof The Catholic Church Is The Only True Church

Christ terms his church a kingdom, which supposes some organized authority. However the explicit steps in the establishing of an authoritative hierarchy are clear. Christ chose certain special men. "You have not chosen Me: but I have chosen you." He gave them his own mission. "As the Father hath sent me, I also send you." This commission included his teaching authority "Teach all nations....whatsoever I have commanded you." His power to sanctify "Baptizing them", forgiving sin, "Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven," offering sacrifice, "Do this in commemeration of me." His legislative or disciplinary power, "He who hears you, hears me, and he who despises you despises me.", "Whatsoever you shall bind on earth, shall also be bound in heaven,". "If a man will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen,"
The Apostles certainly exercised these powers from the beginning. We read in the Acts of the Apostles "They were all persevering in the doctrine of the Apostles."
St. Paul himself did not hesitate to excommunicate the incestuous Corinthian. 1Cor. 3:5 and he wrote to the Hebrews, "Obey your prelates, and be subject to them."
  #7  
Old Dec 12, '08, 10:12 am
joshua_b joshua_b is offline
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Default Re: Positive Proof The Catholic Church Is The Only True Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai22 View Post
Matthew 16:18 was misinterpreted.

Matthew 16:17-18 Is speaking about TRUTH, Jesus called Peter a rock, (solid) because Peter was solid in the Truth.

Jesus said he will build his church on solid truth. He didn't say it would Catholic, Judaism, Islamic or any other church. All he said was that he will build his church on solid truth.






Shai22
There are several problems with this.

First it either undermines or completely ignores 2 very important elements to the Scripture, which are imperative to the context of the passages. First, Peter is given a name change. This is NOT insignifigant. Others who are more brilliant and educated than me can give better commentary on how many times a person is given a new name by God, and what that signifies. The other element that this ignores is the handing of the keys to Peter by Jesus. This was a direct reference of Jesus to the O.T. and Peter (and the rest of the Apostles) would have immediately understood the signifigance of this (as would all first century Jewish converts).

If you correctly understand the giving of the Keys, and the duties and responsibilities it carries with it, then it is impossible to deduce that Jesus was referring to some abstract concept of "absolute Truth", because a concept can not effectively carry out the duties and responsibilities that would come along with posessing the keys.
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  #8  
Old Dec 12, '08, 10:12 am
OneTrueCathApos OneTrueCathApos is offline
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Default Re: Positive Proof The Catholic Church Is The Only True Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai22 View Post
Matthew 16:18 was misinterpreted.

Matthew 16:17-18 Is speaking about TRUTH, Jesus called Peter a rock, (solid) because Peter was solid in the Truth.

Jesus said he will build his church on solid truth. He didn't say it would Catholic, Judaism, Islamic or any other church. All he said was that he will build his church on solid truth.






Shai22
Hello Shai22, welcome to CAF
I hope you are really listening to this evidence of our One, holy, Catholic, and Apostolic church. Have an open mind to this church Christ established, and just listen to what is being said.

God Bless you.
  #9  
Old Dec 12, '08, 10:43 am
ckempston ckempston is offline
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Default Re: Positive Proof The Catholic Church Is The Only True Church

A few comments from my perspective:

a.) Was founded by Christ personally

Agreed.

b.) Has existed continuously since the time of Christ;

I would think, "has existed continuously, unchanged, since the time of Christ" would be more correct. That being said, I would say changes, even contradictions, have occurred numerous times in the Catholic Church's history, which make me doubt the applicability of this statement to the Catholic church, or the understanding of exactly what "the church" is.

c.) Is Catholic or Universal, in accordance with Christ's command to go to all the the world and teach all nations;

Agreed.

d.) Demands that all her members admit the same doctrine;

Paul seems to have no problem with differences, even in doctrine, to a pretty liberal extent.

e.) Exercises Divine authority over her subjects, since Christ said that if a man would not hear the Church he would be as the heathen.

Who is the "her" in this statement? The leadership? The laity? Who wields this authority? Jesus is speaking to Peter and the Apostles, the "first Pope," and Bishops. Why would they, of all people, have to appeal to a higher authority in "the church?"
  #10  
Old Dec 12, '08, 10:57 am
theresa bloom theresa bloom is offline
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Default Re: Positive Proof The Catholic Church Is The Only True Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai22 View Post
Matthew 16:18 was misinterpreted.

Matthew 16:17-18 Is speaking about TRUTH, Jesus called Peter a rock, (solid) because Peter was solid in the Truth.

Jesus said he will build his church on solid truth. He didn't say it would Catholic, Judaism, Islamic or any other church. All he said was that he will build his church on solid truth.

Shai22
First he asks Peter "Who do you say that I am?" Peter answers and based on that answer Jesus says, Peter you are rock and upon this rock I will build my church. Then he goes on to give the keys to the kingdom to Peter. Jesus did not say Peter you speak the truth and the truth is rock or That is true and I will build my church on what you said. He clearly states that Peter is the Rock upon which he would build his Church. When you read the entire passage it makes more sense. Don't just extract a few words and take them out of context.
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  #11  
Old Dec 12, '08, 11:02 am
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happilycatholic happilycatholic is offline
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Default Re: Positive Proof The Catholic Church Is The Only True Church

If the Catholic Church is not Christ's Church, which denomination is it? Which faith is it? Which group of individuals all practicing faith individually is it? Where is it?

The Catholic Church is THE ONLY recognizable and nameable "church" that can trace its history back to the time of Christ or even as close to that time as can be traced whether through tangible evidence or Apostolic Tradition. It is the only Church practicing the faith in the same way that Christ and His Apostles were practicing the faith 2000 years ago. What "denomination" can claim that?

We call this Church "Catholic" because it truly IS universal. It's universal in the geographical sense but also in doctrine and in all practical aspects of the faith.
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  #12  
Old Dec 12, '08, 11:10 am
Shai22 Shai22 is offline
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Default Re: Positive Proof The Catholic Church Is The Only True Church

Matthew 16:18 And so I tell you, Peter you are a rock, and on this rock foundation I will build my church and not even death will ever be able to overcome it.

Jesus is speaking about TRUTH......... HE built his church on TRUTH. Peter was a rock [solid]in the truth.

The scripture was taken from the Good News Bible with Deuterocanonical Apocryphal Books.

Shai22
  #13  
Old Dec 12, '08, 11:29 am
joshua_b joshua_b is offline
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Default Re: Positive Proof The Catholic Church Is The Only True Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai22 View Post
Matthew 16:18 And so I tell you, Peter you are a rock, and on this rock foundation I will build my church and not even death will ever be able to overcome it.

Jesus is speaking about TRUTH......... HE built his church on TRUTH. Peter was a rock [solid]in the truth.

The scripture was taken from the Good News Bible with Deuterocanonical Apocryphal Books.

Shai22
This still does not address the signifigance of Peter's assigned change of name, the signifigance of the Keys to the Kingdom, or to whom/what Jesus is handing the keys to (and why), if the Church is to be built on the abstract, intangible concept of "Truth".

Furthermore, I mean no disrespect or ill feelings, but, the Good News Bible is not exactly renowned for it's accuracy in translation.
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  #14  
Old Dec 12, '08, 11:44 am
ckempston ckempston is offline
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Default Re: Positive Proof The Catholic Church Is The Only True Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by happilycatholic View Post
If the Catholic Church is not Christ's Church, which denomination is it? Which faith is it? Which group of individuals all practicing faith individually is it? Where is it?
I think the problem here is the definition of "church."

It is an undeniable fact that in the first century, there was no central government in the church, yet it was still the church. Everyone didn't submit to Rome, yet it was still the church. Not everyone even agreed on every single doctrine, yet it was still the church. Therefore, it is safe to conclude that when Catholics set up a requirement of "communion with the Pope" as the indicator of one's position to God, they are quite obviously mistaken.

I find the Catholic definition of church that you seem to be suggesting with comments like, "where is it?" to be rather unbiblical.

Christ said by their fruit, and by their love for one another, will the world know who his followers are. Nothing about clubs, associations, or submission to one or another earthly authority.

"The church" is all believers in Christ, everywhere, every time, and in every nation, both dead and alive, regardless of association.
  #15  
Old Dec 12, '08, 12:07 pm
DocSoos DocSoos is offline
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Default Re: Positive Proof The Catholic Church Is The Only True Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneTrueCathApos View Post
The proof lies in the fact that the Catholic church alone corresponds exactly to the exact religion established by Christ. Now, the Christian religion is that religion which--
a.) Was founded by Christ personally
b.) Has existed continuously since the time of Christ;
c.) Is Catholic or Universal, in accordance with Christ's command to go to all the the world and teach all nations;
d.) Demands that all her members admit the same doctrine;
e.) Exercises Divine authority over her subjects, since Christ said that if a man would not hear the Church he would be as the heathen.

Now the Catholic church alone can claim--
a.) To have been founded by Christ personally. All other churches disappear as you go back through history. Christ said "Thou art Peter, and upon this Rock I will build my church." Matt 16:18
There are many claimants to the honor of being Christ's Church. But among all non-Catholic Churches, we find one built by John Wesley, another on a Martin Luther, another on a Mrs. Eddy, etc..
But the Catholic church alone can possibly claim to have been built on Peter, the chief of the Apostles, and one-time Bishop of Rome.
b.) To have existed in all the centuries since Christ
c.) That every one of her members admits exactly the same essential doctrines
d.) To be Catholic or Universal
e.) To speak with a voice of true authority in the name of God.

I just gotta give this post a big AMEN!
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