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  #16  
Old Dec 29, '04, 4:41 pm
rlg94086 rlg94086 is offline
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Default Re: advice on modesty....

plteen,

I know your post primarily deals with clothing, but don't forget to talk about attitude and actions. In addition to dressing like they are "looking for action", too many teenage girls flirt a little too aggressively.

Last week one of my 14yo son's hockey buddies brought a cousin (not sure of her age, but definitely a teen) to practice. In addition to wearing a tight, white, midrif-bearing top with a black bra underneath and tight, low-cut jeans, she was flirting with just about every boy on the team and then hanging around right outside the locker room as they were changing for practice. I had to constantly keep closing the door to keep the half-naked boys from flirting back.

I don't know what her intentions were (I'm trying to be charitable), but give me a break! I asked my son if he noticed her, and he said "Yeah, can you believe that?! She was even checking me out on the way out of the locker room!" I don't believe rape (date- or otherwise) is ever warranted and I know people hate to hear this, but this kind of activity invites serious sin.

I'm glad you are tackling this issue, and I will pray for your strength.

God bless,

Robert.
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  #17  
Old Dec 29, '04, 4:54 pm
rlg94086 rlg94086 is offline
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Default Re: advice on modesty....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tlaloc
I understand your position but part of kids growing up is getting them to realize they need to make decisions on their own. The point I'm trying to make is that what use is it to her what someone from the internet says? She's the one who has to live with it. Its not like in Psalms it says "Your skirt shall be at least 13 hands in length." Any answer she gets to a question like this will be based solely on personal prejudice so why not skip all that and go to the one person whose opinion on her clothes matters? Hers.
I don't think you do. I'm a Catholic on a Catholic forum giving and receiving info with other Catholics. I enjoy discussions on the board with non-Catholics when the thread is created for that purpose.

The original poster did not say, "I'm curious what an non-religious, iconoclast's views are about modesty?", so I'm making a huge logical leap in assuming that she was looking for a Catholic answer.

Is that clearer?

God Bless,

Robert.
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  #18  
Old Dec 29, '04, 5:08 pm
Tlaloc Tlaloc is offline
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Default Re: advice on modesty....

Quote:
Originally Posted by tkdnick
She's giving a presentation to girls about dressing modestly. So this whole thing isn't about her personal opinion of modesty. She has to address the culture's ideas of modesty and these people's ideas of modesty.
And she should base that on some stranger's opinion? All the more reason to encourage her to think clearly about the topic and not subscribe to some easy but inadequate answer. If you are going to present ideas, especially unpopular ideas, it's best to have a solid foundation.
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  #19  
Old Dec 29, '04, 5:16 pm
Sweetcakes Sweetcakes is offline
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Default Re: advice on modesty....

I think your original post is honest and authentic and would make a great talk.
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  #20  
Old Dec 29, '04, 5:58 pm
misericordie misericordie is offline
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Default Re: advice on modesty....

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlg94086
plteen,

I know your post primarily deals with clothing, but don't forget to talk about attitude and actions. In addition to dressing like they are "looking for action", too many teenage girls flirt a little too aggressively.

Last week one of my 14yo son's hockey buddies brought a cousin (not sure of her age, but definitely a teen) to practice. In addition to wearing a tight, white, midrif-bearing top with a black bra underneath and tight, low-cut jeans, she was flirting with just about every boy on the team and then hanging around right outside the locker room as they were changing for practice. I had to constantly keep closing the door to keep the half-naked boys from flirting back.

I don't know what her intentions were (I'm trying to be charitable), but give me a break! I asked my son if he noticed her, and he said "Yeah, can you believe that?! She was even checking me out on the way out of the locker room!" I don't believe rape (date- or otherwise) is ever warranted and I know people hate to hear this, but this kind of activity invites serious sin.

I'm glad you are tackling this issue, and I will pray for your strength.

God bless,

Robert.
My God, what parents raised the one you describe here? This is failrly common unfortunatly nowadays with many girls who are not even aware at times that they are giving men the impression that they are easy, bimboish, etc, etc, etc. How sad. Well, most also lack the father figure at home, who actaully has some authority(if his wife has not taken it away from him)at home over his children to put discipline. Also, well there are many broken homes in divorce etc.
I highly admire any woman who has high self esteem where she does not need to get the self esteem from the attention of guys. Also, one who totally dresses modest, not giving in to peer pressure is what most decent well educated guys really want for a relationship. Unless the guy is a hoodlum, or well an anti-social, he will admire decent women who respect their bodies(ESPECIALLY IN SUMMER) enough not to give the impression that they are easy etc.
Many blessings to the very mature ones who so value modesty and self respect, that they actually start a thread as this one.
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  #21  
Old Dec 29, '04, 7:41 pm
Daniel Kane Daniel Kane is offline
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Default Re: advice on modesty....

My dear pro-life teen - Do an internet search for "Challenge Clubs" this is a Catholic teen girl's leradership club that has made great inroads in this area. I think they call it the "Pure Fashion Fashion Show" or something like that. They have appeared on TV shows and have influenced some of the big department stores.

In Atlanta, this show is a huge hit annually and is done in cooperation with the most exclusive mall (Lenox Mall) in Atlanta.

God Bless you for your courage and leadership.
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  #22  
Old Dec 29, '04, 8:14 pm
Island Oak Island Oak is offline
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Default Re: advice on modesty....

Sweetchuck and Chicago--good posts--I think they will be helpful to the question raised originally.

...and lead us not into the mall, but deliver us from Limited II.
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  #23  
Old Dec 29, '04, 9:54 pm
*pro-life_teen* *pro-life_teen* is offline
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Smile Re: advice on modesty....

Thanks, everyone, I really appreciate your advice! I am going to be giving this talk as part of a series (we start off with prayer, the difference between abstinence and chastity, dating, how far is too far, pornography, (modesty would go here), purity renewed, Reconciliation, tips on staying pure, and Q and As).

I do talk with a guy on the topic of modesty, so his perspective is also there. I am also going to take the advice of asking a woman whom I think dresses well to evaluate my clothes.
Quote:
I think your original post is honest and authentic and would make a great talk.
Thanks, I was actually also wondering if I approached my talk similarly if it would be effective!
Daniel Kane, I hadn't heard of Challenge Clubs, but I'll check it out! Thanks!
Quote:
That's exactly what you are! A tabernacle! You're Catholic, right? What do you think you become when you take communion every Sunday? A living breathing tabernacle, a dwelling place for Christ Himself! Act modestly out of reverence toward Him and His home: Your body!
Thanks Sweetchuck, I hope you don't mind if I use this in my talk- I think it is so beautiful!

So thanks again everyone for your prayers and advice, I really appreciate it!

***What do you think are good general guidelines I could suggest for modest dressing- like "no black bras under white shirts." Do you all have any more?***
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Last edited by *pro-life_teen*; Dec 29, '04 at 9:58 pm. Reason: addition
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  #24  
Old Dec 29, '04, 10:55 pm
Catholic_Mike Catholic_Mike is offline
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Default Re: advice on modesty....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tlaloc
If the midrift can be overtly seductive, why not the face?

The point is they are completely arbitrary boundaries and of the same mindset that compels muslim women to wear Burkas.

I'd posit that rather than rely on the arbitrary line chosen by some anonymous random internet poster the young woman might be better served by simply determining for herself what she considers modest or immodest. Then she can stay within the bounds that make her comfortable rather than some stranger.
I disagree. The limits of modesty may be subjective, but it's something that is determined by society - not by each individual. In some places it may be that going around shirtless does not tempt any of the males in the community to lust. There may also be communities where exposing the ears or toes can tempt one's fellow Christians.

I think that if a person wants to know what is modest, they need to figure out what would expose a member of the opposite sex to significant temptation. In the US, unfortunately, women have been so visually objectified that a young man like myself finds it difficult to overcome the media's messages about the female body at times. I really do appreciate it when women dress modestly: it really does help me avoid sin and give them more of the respect they deserve.

I think we are all obligated to help each other out. I'll add that modesty may be more of an issue for women than it is for men, but men have an obligation to be modest too.
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  #25  
Old Dec 29, '04, 11:04 pm
Catholic_Mike Catholic_Mike is offline
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Default Re: advice on modesty....

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveBj
Perhaps the #2 thing is that if someone dresses like she's sexually available, but she really isn't, that's false advertising. And the unfortunate thing about false advertising is that sooner or later there's going to come along a "buyer" who isn't going to take "no" for an answer. That's not something that the feminists want to hear, but it's the truth.

DaveBk
I think you have to be careful when saying things like that. Yeah, entering into situations where sex is likely expected and looking like you're ready to make it available can be dangerous. As someone who got chewed out by a classmate in his Psychology of Women class for trying to explain that this is not "blaming the victim," I just want to point out that you can't be too sensitive in making that point.

And really, I think this is an issue that should prompt us to try and form ranks with the feminists. I think they have some interesting observations as to the causes and results of the culture's hypersexualized view of the female body.

Oh! And I forgot. Prolifeteen - what you're doing is really commendable. Good luck!
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  #26  
Old Dec 30, '04, 12:22 am
sweetchuck sweetchuck is offline
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Default Re: advice on modesty....

Quote:
Originally Posted by *pro-life_teen*
Thanks Sweetchuck, I hope you don't mind if I use this in my talk- I think it is so beautiful!

As I read through the thread, I became discouraged after reading Tlaloc's posts attempting to connect my line of thinking with repression of women, as if I and those who equate women with lower beings are one in the same! But PLT, your affirmation of my post more than makes up for the rebuke of Tlaloc.

Of course I don't mind if you use something I said in your talk! My thoughts are not mine to posess. I share them for all. If I have a pure thought that brings someone closer to God, that in itself is a gift from God, and I am to share it (Matt. 25:14-30). Because the true gift lies not in that God gives someone a gift to keep all to himself or herself, but that God reaches from one person to the next to the next to the next and so on.

God bless and good luck with your talk. To whom is it addressed?
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When they got out on land, they saw a charcoal fire there ...
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  #27  
Old Dec 30, '04, 12:31 am
sweetchuck sweetchuck is offline
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Thumbs up Re: advice on modesty....

Quote:
Originally Posted by *pro-life_teen*
Not only that, but I personally don't think I've attained that virtue well yet.
And by the way, you're well on your way to that virtue. Humility, which you express here, is essential in coming to understanding and will carry you to the side of the Lord.

As the angel Gabriel says to Daniel (10:12)
' "Fear not, Daniel," he continued; "from the first day you made up your mind to acquire understanding and humble yourself before God, your prayer was heard." '

James 4:10
"Humble yourselves before the Lord and he will exalt you."
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"He who has seen me has seen the Father" Jn 14:9.


When they got out on land, they saw a charcoal fire there ...
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  #28  
Old Dec 30, '04, 6:38 am
goravens goravens is offline
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Default Re: advice on modesty....

Maybe you could bring some examples of modest, stylish clothes to show during your talk? I admit those are difficult to find out there and I get especially frustrated with summer clothes. Do you have a Maurices near you? They have some good modest clothes (not everything, but a lot.)

Another thing to examine is motive. Encouraging teens to ask what their motive is behind the clothes they wear - is it to attract attention to themselves? Is it to show off an area of their body they think is especially attractive, though may be indecent (such as cleavage)? Or is it to honor themselves as a child of God and wear something attractive without being revealing? Such as a shirt that's not clingy but not baggy either with a color that looks good on you.

Also, you might look at the way men think since that's something girls may or may not be aware of. Jason Evert's books and pamphlets are good resources for this - just how guys tend to be more visual. And if we want to treat them as brothers in Christ and not hinder their Christian walk, why would we wear clothing that might bring them down and tempt them? You can refer to what Jesus said about looking at a woman lustfully being equal to adultery - if it's a Christian/Catholic talk of course.
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  #29  
Old Dec 30, '04, 9:11 am
tkdnick tkdnick is offline
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Default Re: advice on modesty....

You might want to check out Jason and Crystalina Evert's "Pure Love Club". You can get to it from catholic.com. They cover the whole gamut of stuff that seems to be in your talk.
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  #30  
Old Dec 30, '04, 9:20 am
Tlaloc Tlaloc is offline
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Default Re: advice on modesty....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catholic_Mike
I disagree. The limits of modesty may be subjective, but it's something that is determined by society - not by each individual. In some places it may be that going around shirtless does not tempt any of the males in the community to lust. There may also be communities where exposing the ears or toes can tempt one's fellow Christians.
Well in that case I'd have to argue that bare midrifts have been embraced by our society. As has wearing low cut jeans and thong underwear. See the problem with this argument is that the whole point of "modesty" is to go above and beyond what society accepts, otherwise its not modesty, it's just common sense.
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