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  #1  
Old Jan 2, '09, 9:31 pm
cholman cholman is offline
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Default Traditional/Liberal Dioceses in the U.S.

What are the notoriously liberal and conservative dioceses in the U.s.? (ex. Lincoln, Nebraska is very, very traditional, Los Angeles is very liberal)
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  #2  
Old Jan 3, '09, 7:46 am
Dicerning Dicerning is offline
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Default Re: Traditional/Liberal Dioceses in the U.S.

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What are the notoriously liberal and conservative dioceses in the U.s.? (ex. Lincoln, Nebraska is very, very traditional, Los Angeles is very liberal)
WHy is Lincoln VERY VERY traditional and Los ANgeles only very LIberal.

Of the two dioceses which one would have liturgies as a whole that resemble the reverence and style of the Vaticans liturgies? Hmm?

There used to be an online database that listed location of PEA chapels (adoration chapels). the 4.35 million member LA archdio only had a Fraction compared to the 89 thousand member diocese of Lincoln.

Which diocese has more seminarians per capita? just take a guess I dare you. Lincoln has 41 seminarians and LA has 50!!!!!

If you do the Math.....if the LA archdiocese were as successful at recruiting seminarians then they would have 2000 seminarians instead of 50.

I think the diocese of Lincoln is doing a VERY VERY good job at "being Catholic" and the Archdiocese of LA is doing VERY not good.
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Old Jan 3, '09, 8:38 am
cholman cholman is offline
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Default Re: Traditional/Liberal Dioceses in the U.S.

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WHy is Lincoln VERY VERY traditional and Los ANgeles only very LIberal.

Of the two dioceses which one would have liturgies as a whole that resemble the reverence and style of the Vaticans liturgies? Hmm?

There used to be an online database that listed location of PEA chapels (adoration chapels). the 4.35 million member LA archdio only had a Fraction compared to the 89 thousand member diocese of Lincoln.

Which diocese has more seminarians per capita? just take a guess I dare you. Lincoln has 41 seminarians and LA has 50!!!!!

If you do the Math.....if the LA archdiocese were as successful at recruiting seminarians then they would have 2000 seminarians instead of 50.

I think the diocese of Lincoln is doing a VERY VERY good job at "being Catholic" and the Archdiocese of LA is doing VERY not good.
Aux contraire, my conservative friend. In my opinion, the success of a diocese or archdiocese is not measured in how many seminarians they produce, it is in how the Catholics in each diocese respond to the particular worship instigated by the leader of that diocese. While priesthood vocations are important, I think that the congregations' support is more important, since that is what ultimately leads to a more Christian world.
In addition, I also think that the Lincoln diocese is extremely unfair to exclude the participation of altar girls (but that is for another thread). Not to bash them, but I think that any diocese that doesn't allow the full participation of CHILDREN in their public worship is being "Very not good."
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  #4  
Old Jan 3, '09, 8:45 am
bpbasilphx bpbasilphx is offline
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Default Re: Traditional/Liberal Dioceses in the U.S.

**Not to bash them, but I think that any diocese that doesn't allow the full participation of CHILDREN in their public worship is being "Very not good."**

What's to stop having a children's choir, or encouraging children to sing lustily during the Eucharistic Sacrifice and other services?

Or are you saying the only way one can "fully participate" in the services is to dress up in a cassock and surplice or alb?
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  #5  
Old Jan 3, '09, 8:57 am
cholman cholman is offline
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Default Re: Traditional/Liberal Dioceses in the U.S.

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**Not to bash them, but I think that any diocese that doesn't allow the full participation of CHILDREN in their public worship is being "Very not good."**

What's to stop having a children's choir, or encouraging children to sing lustily during the Eucharistic Sacrifice and other services?

Or are you saying the only way one can "fully participate" in the services is to dress up in a cassock and surplice or alb?
Not at all, but altar serving is one of the greatest ways to become closer to Christ, and I feel that when we shut out our children from participating fully in the liturgy, in a way such as altar serving, we are telling them (girls in particular) that they are not as good as the boys.
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  #6  
Old Jan 3, '09, 9:02 am
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Chatter163 Chatter163 is offline
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Thumbs down Re: Traditional/Liberal Dioceses in the U.S.

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In my opinion, the success of a diocese or archdiocese is not measured in how many seminarians they produce, it is in how the Catholics in each diocese respond to the particular worship instigated by the leader of that diocese. While priesthood vocations are important, I think that the congregations' support is more important, since that is what ultimately leads to a more Christian world.
Yes, that is what new age liberals always say when attempting to explain their dismal record of producing vocations, and failure to provide for the future of the Church. But then again, many of them desire a priestless Church, anyway, so...

Quote:
In addition, I also think that the Lincoln diocese is extremely unfair to exclude the participation of altar girls (but that is for another thread). Not to bash them, but I think that any diocese that doesn't allow the full participation of CHILDREN in their public worship is being "Very not good."
Goodness, how did the Chuch ever survive through 1994, without having had the the benefit of receiving enlightenment from modern politicized liberal thinking?
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  #7  
Old Jan 3, '09, 9:04 am
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Chatter163 Chatter163 is offline
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Exclamation Re: Traditional/Liberal Dioceses in the U.S.

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Not at all, but altar serving is one of the greatest ways to become closer to Christ
It is indeed one of the greatest ways to become closer to joining the priesthood, which is why it was traditionally understood to be limited to males.
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  #8  
Old Jan 3, '09, 9:08 am
kaws kaws is offline
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Default Re: Traditional/Liberal Dioceses in the U.S.

Cholman, Are you from the Lincoln, NE diocese? just curious.
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  #9  
Old Jan 3, '09, 11:35 am
JuanCarlos JuanCarlos is offline
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Default Re: Traditional/Liberal Dioceses in the U.S.

As a Catholic of the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, I can assure you there are pockets of conservatism here and there. I manage to get to a licit EF every Sunday and Holy Day and High Mass once a month. All within a 20 minute drive.
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Old Jan 3, '09, 8:10 pm
ravenonthecross ravenonthecross is offline
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Default Re: Traditional/Liberal Dioceses in the U.S.

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Originally Posted by cholman View Post
Not at all, but altar serving is one of the greatest ways to become closer to Christ, and I feel that when we shut out our children from participating fully in the liturgy, in a way such as altar serving, we are telling them (girls in particular) that they are not as good as the boys.
I think it is very much vital in one's understanding, to recognize the fact that Altar servers were traditionally "acolytes." Acolytes are a minor order to which young boys and young [and even older gentlemen] were ordained and still are (with any particular form of ordination being reserved and permissible to males alone; for as any orthodox Catholic knows, that the Catholic Church possesses no power or authority to ordain females at all; and that is dogma).
It was only by intense pressure by Ultra-Leftist Liberals within the Catholic Church that finally pressured the Holy Father John Paul II to finally concede the permission of girls to be altar-servers in1994. (not acolytes mind you, just "altar-servers.") Having female altar-servers is not only opposed to Tradition, but traditionally the position of altar-server or rather "acolyte" has always been reserved for boys and young men, in the hopes and the influence upon them would encourage and nudge into the joining the Holy Priesthood.
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Old Jan 3, '09, 9:08 pm
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Default Re: Traditional/Liberal Dioceses in the U.S.

You know, I couldn't even rate my own diocese. I think we can rely too much on news articles and rumors and proceed to rash judgement, good and bad. I must say I have been favorly impressed with AB DiNardo so far. His articles are solidly Catholic, neither snotty or wishy-washy.
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Old Jan 3, '09, 9:13 pm
m134e5 m134e5 is offline
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Default Re: Traditional/Liberal Dioceses in the U.S.

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Originally Posted by cholman View Post
In addition, I also think that the Lincoln diocese is extremely unfair to exclude the participation of altar girls (but that is for another thread). Not to bash them, but I think that any diocese that doesn't allow the full participation of CHILDREN in their public worship is being "Very not good."
That has only been done licitly for about 15 years, and it's within the right of the local bishop not to allow it. I heard a pretty good children's choir at a church in Lincoln one time- it had both boys and girls in it. There should be ways for everyone in the parish to get actively involved. As strong as the Lincoln diocese is- and with the reputation they have for both male and female vocations, I am sure there are ways for women and girls to get involved with in their parishes that do not make them feel somehow less than the men. Other dioceses should follow their example. If they did, the Church in America would be in MUCH better shape.
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  #13  
Old Jan 4, '09, 4:17 am
kaws kaws is offline
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Default Re: Traditional/Liberal Dioceses in the U.S.

Yes it is up to each bishop. Bishop Bruskewitz, unfortunately in my opinion, choses not to allow girls to serve.

We are very lucky to have many seminarians in our diocese - including 6 from our parish alone and a friend of mine!

I am glad that allowing girls to serve is now licit in most places (except Lincoln ). I am also glad that Lincoln FINALLY allows women to lector at Sunday masses.

Growing up in this diocese it did send the message that girls and women were inferior and imperfect in comparison to boys/men.

Most of the boys who serve are called to a married vocation. If serving for boys strengthens chances for boys to chose a priestly vocation is it not logical that allowing girls to serve would also encourage vocations toward the religious life?

I hope this decision changes and my daughter will be allowed to serve as an altar girl when she is older.
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  #14  
Old Jan 4, '09, 4:22 am
puzzleannie puzzleannie is offline
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Default Re: Traditional/Liberal Dioceses in the U.S.

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Not to bash them, but I think that any diocese that doesn't allow the full participation of CHILDREN in their public worship is being "Very not good."
by this measure any diocese that does not encourage every lay person to take their turn serving at the altar is "not good" at public worship and that laity are not able to fully, actively participate in public worship unless they serve at the altar.

That is not BTW what the Archdiocese of Los Angeles teaches in their instruction to the laity on full active participation, a video and study series called Gathering Faithfully Together.
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  #15  
Old Jan 4, '09, 5:02 am
KCT KCT is offline
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Default Re: Traditional/Liberal Dioceses in the U.S.

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Originally Posted by cholman View Post
Not at all, but altar serving is one of the greatest ways to become closer to Christ, and I feel that when we shut out our children from participating fully in the liturgy, in a way such as altar serving, we are telling them (girls in particular) that they are not as good as the boys.
IMHO, receiving the Eucharist is the best way to become close to Christ and for that. we need priests. (male priests )
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