near occasion of sin?

2008catholic · #1 Jan 7, '09, 12:25 pm

I am new here and i am in my 20's and Catholic. How do you know if something or someone is a near occasion of sin?

kage_ar · #2 Jan 7, '09, 12:34 pm

Does that someone or someone strongly tempt you to sin?

**puzzleannie** · #3 Jan 7, '09, 12:35 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2008catholic

I am new here and i am in my 20's and Catholic. How do you know if something or someone is a near occasion of sin?

are you tempted to sin when you are around this person, doing this activity, or in this place

2008catholic · #4 Jan 7, '09, 1:17 pm

Well its about me and my gf. I have always had to fight masturbation. And had it somewhat under control (meaning I could go two weeks with out it). And ever since I have been with her (we are long distance) I seem to fall everyweek.

But I am not sure if its her or if its me. Because anytime before that I have been interested in a girl I have had to fight extra hard to be pure.

She also has to fight the same thing. Theres been a few times we have both fallin on the phone (we are not proud of that).

We are both Catholic. She says she wants us to be pure. And I do too. But sometimes over the phone we have a hard time not getting turned on or stuff.

Does it sound like being together is a near occasion of sin? Or does it just sound like we both need to help each other fight and be more pure?

**whatevergirl** · #5 Jan 7, '09, 1:24 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2008catholic

I am new here and i am in my 20's and Catholic. How do you know if something or someone is a near occasion of sin?

I liken a near occasion of sin...to a cliff on the edge of a mountain. If you are standing near a cliff...you just know it! You look over and woah....one wrong move, and you'll plummet down the mountain. That is what near occasion of sin is, to me. If you feel like you are nearing the edge of a cliff...and if you make another move, you might end up plummeting into sin...then it's a near occasion. Hope that helps. My analogy might be weird, I know.

**whatevergirl** · #6 Jan 7, '09, 1:27 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2008catholic

Well its about me and my gf. I have always had to fight masturbation. And had it somewhat under control (meaning I could go two weeks with out it). And ever since I have been with her (we are long distance) I seem to fall everyweek.

But I am not sure if its her or if its me. Because anytime before that I have been interested in a girl I have had to fight extra hard to be pure.

She also has to fight the same thing. Theres been a few times we have both fallin on the phone (we are not proud of that).

We are both Catholic. She says she wants us to be pure. And I do too. But sometimes over the phone we have a hard time not getting turned on or stuff.

Does it sound like being together is a near occasion of sin? Or does it just sound like we both need to help each other fight and be more pure?

talking over the phone is not the near occasion of sin, but perhaps what you are talking about...how you are talking (your tones...are they sexy sounding, and meant to entice each other?) etc are what is causing you both to stumble. Think about what you are both chatting about, and move away from the cliff--and talk about something else. Make certain subjects 'off limits,' if you feel they lead you both down the path of temptation.

kage_ar · #7 Jan 7, '09, 1:49 pm

Have your phone calls in public places. Do you or she live at home? Then, take the phone call in the kitchen or living room, you should not have any conversation that another person cannot hear.

If you are in a dorm, go to a cafe, coffee shop, the lobby, to make calls.

Don't talk on the phone if you have been drinking. Don't talk on the phone in bed.

It is not difficult to avoid dirty phone calls if you put your common sense to work.

GraceDK · #8 Jan 7, '09, 2:30 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2008catholic

I am new here and i am in my 20's and Catholic. How do you know if something or someone is a near occasion of sin?

Someone is never a near occasion of sin. Human fellow beings are our neighbours, everyone of them. We are all essentially lost without Christ and His Salvation, we have all sinned and lost the glory of God. Calling another person an occasion of sin is the same as not taking responsibility of ones own actions.
Even if someone does something immoral to you or infront of you you have the freedom of your own reaction.
A person who has been sexually assaulted has not sinned, nor is he or she guilty, although sin has occured. The perpretrator will sometimes blame his victim but this is always gravely wrong and not acceptable to western systems of justice.
The near occasion of sin is a situation, a circumstance that you place your self in knowing that you might likely become tempted in it.. like if you turn on a tv channel where you know some enticing and lustful movie is going on and where your natural curiosity is likely to win over your moral resolve not to sin. Another situation is being alone and cuddling at night with your girlfriend that you find highly attractive, or going out to a bar with severel friends who drink and curse and in whose presense you might feel pressured to to act like a monkey in order to be accepted as a cool guy....

I think you get it.
Near occasion of sin is a concept that is only useful in a context where we acknowlege both the freedom of choice and the weakness of our will as human beings.

Hope that helps.
Grace

BamaRider · #9 Jan 7, '09, 2:46 pm

Quote:

But I am not sure if its her or if its me. Because anytime before that I have been interested in a girl I have had to fight extra hard to be pure.

You don't know if its you are her?? Well how about taking charge and it won't matter!

Now c'mon man, you KNOW phone sex isn't right, you don't need us to tell ya that, and if you're seducing her on the phone, then stop it.

You're making it sound like the phone is at fault. What ya gonna do, pull all the phones outta the house?

How old are ya? 20 something? I know it might be hard for ya to know things at that age, but ya might as well start learning. And seducing your gf on the phone and then saying you're not sure how that happens is one of em.

Sheeesh.

Norseman82 · #10 Jan 7, '09, 4:02 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GraceDK

Someone is never a near occasion of sin. Human fellow beings are our neighbours, everyone of them. We are all essentially lost without Christ and His Salvation, we have all sinned and lost the glory of God. Calling another person an occasion of sin is the same as not taking responsibility of ones own actions.

That is not entirely correct.

I remember reading in the old Baltimore Catechism the concept of "bad companions", so yes, according to the traditional teaching of the Church people can most certainly indeed qualify as occasions of sin. And that does not diminish personal responsibility; on the contrary, it only demands more personal responsibility from us by expecting us to choose our companions and situations we put ourselves in more wisely.

If more people took more seriously the concept of "bad companions" and avoided them I think a lot of people would avoid some of the bad relationships they find themselves in.

GraceDK · #11 Jan 8, '09, 1:03 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norseman82

That is not entirely correct.

I remember reading in the old Baltimore Catechism the concept of "bad companions", so yes, according to the traditional teaching of the Church people can most certainly indeed qualify as occasions of sin. And that does not diminish personal responsibility; on the contrary, it only demands more personal responsibility from us by expecting us to choose our companions and situations we put ourselves in more wisely.

If more people took more seriously the concept of "bad companions" and avoided them I think a lot of people would avoid some of the bad relationships they find themselves in.

We will agree to disagree I suppose.
I have a tendency to disagree with you in the past and at one point you made me even angry.
I could then call you a near occasion of sin to me, but I dont because I know its my own passion and going into debates with you that is the near occasion.. Its not something I will blame you for. There will always be people who dress, act, speak etc in ways that are challenging to us. I will still not call them near occasions of sin.
I have just come out of a relationship with a man that repeatedly challenged my commitment to chastity. I still do not call him a near occasion of sin. The occasion is just that.. occasion (situation, circumstance), not person.. and its my choice if I want to enter this occasion and how I wish to react.

Peace and Shalom