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  #1  
Old Jan 29, '09, 11:14 am
irishpatrick irishpatrick is offline
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Default Help? Why do they hate the faith so very much?

When speaking with other people about the Catholic faith, all sorts of horrific things come out of their mouths and is posted on many forums. I understand to a reasonable degree when people just do not agree with certain teachings...

However, why does it seem that so many people really, truly hate Catholics and the Catholic faith? I mean really hate--not just dislike...

It is hard to grasp.
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  #2  
Old Jan 29, '09, 11:32 am
Dauphin Dauphin is offline
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Default Re: Help? Why do they hate the faith so very much?

They crucified Our Lord, who was the Truth incarnate. The Catholic Church remains a sign of contradition, in imitation of Christ's passion.
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  #3  
Old Jan 29, '09, 7:29 pm
ericka1701 ericka1701 is offline
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Default Re: Help? Why do they hate the faith so very much?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dauphin View Post
They crucified Our Lord, who was the Truth incarnate. The Catholic Church remains a sign of contradition, in imitation of Christ's passion.
That is part of the answer, but I think Archbishop Fulton Sheen summed it up perfectly... to paraphrase, not many people really hate the Catholic Church for what it is... most hate it for what they think it is.

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  #4  
Old Jan 29, '09, 7:36 pm
Tantum ergo Tantum ergo is offline
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Default Re: Help? Why do they hate the faith so very much?

Jesus told us that the world would hate us because it hated Him first. But that's only part of it.

Those who love Jesus but hate Catholics hate because they misunderstand the Catholic Church and think it's 'against' Jesus; those who hate Jesus will hate Catholics because they understand that the Catholic Church is united WITH Jesus.
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  #5  
Old Jan 29, '09, 7:36 pm
Binary Binary is offline
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Default Re: Help? Why do they hate the faith so very much?

I was going to mention the same saying from Fulton Sheen. Also, in general, the internet is a cesspool. People talk and act differently when they are anonymous.
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  #6  
Old Jan 29, '09, 7:49 pm
tobinatorstark tobinatorstark is offline
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Default Re: Help? Why do they hate the faith so very much?

Quote:
Originally Posted by irishpatrick View Post
When speaking with other people about the Catholic faith, all sorts of horrific things come out of their mouths and is posted on many forums. I understand to a reasonable degree when people just do not agree with certain teachings...

However, why does it seem that so many people really, truly hate Catholics and the Catholic faith? I mean really hate--not just dislike...

It is hard to grasp.
One word. Mother Angelica from EWTN explains it quite well. Jealousy.
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  #7  
Old Jan 30, '09, 4:14 pm
TraceG TraceG is offline
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Default Re: Help? Why do they hate the faith so very much?

I kinda have a psychological take on this. Some, people have a tendency to try to tear down others and belittle them in hopes it will make them feel better. Instead of bettering themselves. I also think personal egos and pride have a part in it. They would rather attack something else(Catholic Church) than admit due to their egos they might actually be wrong. Deep down even subconciously they may be questioning themselves if they are wrong, so they not only go on the defensive but become the aggressor.
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  #8  
Old Feb 3, '09, 10:47 pm
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Junebug999 Junebug999 is offline
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Default Re: Help? Why do they hate the faith so very much?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TraceG View Post
I kinda have a psychological take on this. Some, people have a tendency to try to tear down others and belittle them in hopes it will make them feel better. Instead of bettering themselves. I also think personal egos and pride have a part in it. They would rather attack something else(Catholic Church) than admit due to their egos they might actually be wrong. Deep down even subconciously they may be questioning themselves if they are wrong, so they not only go on the defensive but become the aggressor.
I so agree with you TraceG -- the truth offends them and there is something in their spirit that recognizes the truth even if they can't admit it. And it comes out as hatred and offensiveness. They need prayer and compassion.

It just makes me more thankful we have seen the light -- A priest said at the end of my first confession, "Never forget what a grace it is that God has shown you the way to his Church."
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  #9  
Old Feb 4, '09, 8:17 am
ATL Granny ATL Granny is offline
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Default Re: Help? Why do they hate the faith so very much?

I think it goes deeper....

Two reasons come to mind:

When you leave an established group, you have to find some kind of rationale for leaving. Until Luther, Christianity WAS Catholicism. Those who left had to find a "rational" reason for leaving. Their rationalizations have been handed down for generations, becoming morphed as they get passed down. Many, many Protestants share that they grew up learning about the "heresies" of the Catholic Church. To them, we are idolators and they are brought up to despise Catholicism. They have been taught that we need to be shown the "truth" and saved from eternal damnation.

The second reason (and this is the most common reason I have found for Catholics who have left the faith and now "despise" it) is usually to be found "below the belt." Either they are divorced or they have had an abortion or practice birth control or want to belong to a church that allows them to live as they want. I have several siblings who fall into this group. They don't want to conform their lives to line up with the deeper understandings that Catholicism offers.
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  #10  
Old Feb 8, '09, 6:03 pm
Detales Detales is offline
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Default Re: Help? Why do they hate the faith so very much?

Maybe it will help you understand your question if I quote one of my posts in another thread. I have a number of other such stories, about indiference on the part of clergy, harrasment by the same, etc, etc. Please note that mine is simply in the "spirit" of exposition. I certainly have had very good experiences in the Church, but in the end, despite much effort and prayer on my part, I found a much more comprehensive way and excused myself from its embrace. I don't condone hatred of the Church or anything or one, but looking at our history from the outside, there can be cause for disappointment, at least.

Here is my quote, in answer to a Catholic who was quite convinced that most adults are damned. It is a fraction of why I left the Church:

"My Dad was a wonderful man. He attended more than the required masses, did charitable work, gave to the poor, supported his family, worked in soup kitchens, etc, etc, and much of this at great physical expense, as he in his later years had gouty artheritis in much of his body. When I sorted through his things after he passed I found stacks of awards and notes of appreciation from churches, institutions, officials, and many other people thanking him for the wonderful work he did or for the contributions he made.

This man of exemplary goodness lay screaming on his death bed wanting to be resucitated again and again, despite agonizing pain, because he feared the judgement of god.* My Mother, though she doesn't have the string of paper acknowledgements that my Dad did, nevertheless deserves to have her name on them as well, as she did her own version of the same work or supported him in his. She is now declining, and her greatest fear is judgement from god.*

Is this what the faith has to offer to good people after eighty odd years of loving devotion to a church, a savior, and a god? Is this how your god welcomes his children back to his arms? Is this how we are to meet our fate, trembling and screaming, already in hell from the fear of judgement? Is this how you would treat your own children, having had a good Catholic upbringing? Is this the net mesaage that we are to glean from our years of guilt ridden practice of avoiding the alleged venial an mortal pitfalls of loving life for its own sake and doing good?

I see my Mom lying in bed, a shadow of her former vigorous, active self, yet shining with joy and gratitude at every leaf, at every bird, at every kind gesture, at every small thing in her life and in the glory of God's creation, having given her life and love and resources to all who knew her. And yet, she is terrified to die because of the legacy of guilt and fear that she has been given as her portion by the church, the representative of god's love on Earth.

For my part, Distracted, I can see a new and glorified Catholic Church that is capable of transmitting a valid and useful gospel. Yet, despite this vision, I see all around me my contemporaries who are Catholic living in fear of meeting their loving god. Where in this is Goodness, where in this is Love, where in this are all the virtues? And how is it that the god that is to be met, who offered his own son to a bloody tortuous death, is less merciful in the anticipated judgement than the poor wretches who fear his embrace?

In the face of this, are you surprised that you find the stories that are on here? Are you surprised that a comedian can say that people are leaving their churches every day to find God? Are you surprised that Mark Twain said "Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion - several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat if his theology isn't straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother's path to happiness and heaven.?" Are you surprised that Adolph Hitler said "It is great luck for leaders that men don't think?" I'm not.

The Catholic Church has done great and wonderful things, as have many of its members. I have nothing but respect and admiration for that. I am a grateful recipient of some of that myself. But there is a darker element that creeps in as false piety that is aided and abbeted by many clergy and by those such as preach and fear the wrath of a judgemental god. Fie on you all who are so. You are the ruination of souls by complicity to fear and separation. That is hell, and one need not die to experience it. One need only subscribe to any religion which has distorted the Love of the Father into dogmatized, ritualized, fearmongering about punishment, instead of elevating the Risen Christ into His place as the exemplar and giver of every good and perfect gift, and the giver of the Life blood of the Sacred Heart which pours out unto all who will have it.

If there is a Satan, he and his minions preach fear and separation. If Lucifer, the Light Bearer, fell, it is because he fell for his illusion of separation. Are you so arrogant as well to attribute the power to a mortal to "banish God?" Not even the damned see their own suffering but for the light of God, and if they suffer it is because the do not comprehend their never broken
at-one-ment with their Creator. The God we worship is Love and Light, and we support the glorification of his children as transparent in act to His goodness. What self induced fate awaits those who would decieve God's children into fearing their own Source rather that edifying their potential as Good?"

*I have used lower case in some instances here deliberately to signify that in that context "god" etc. are manufactured illusions.
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Last edited by Detales; Feb 8, '09 at 6:08 pm. Reason: punctation, spelling
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  #11  
Old Feb 8, '09, 6:08 pm
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jmcrae jmcrae is offline
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Default Re: Help? Why do they hate the faith so very much?

Why isn't someone bringing a priest to see these elderly relatives, so that he can hear their Confessions, and give them the assurance that they are safe in the arms of Jesus?
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  #12  
Old Feb 8, '09, 6:39 pm
Detales Detales is offline
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Default Re: Help? Why do they hate the faith so very much?

In the case of my parents, as delineated above, that was the case. Given their strong and strict Catholic education over time, the damage had been done, the conviction of guilt driven deep. No number of confessions or communions changed it in my Dad's case, and there doesn't look like there is much hope in my Mom's.

It is not that the Church is intrinsically wrong. It is that in effect, due to ignorance and other vices, but primarily ignorance, that essentialy good people are irrevocably burdened with the weight of sins that they are not even capable of proving they commited. It is just an atmosphere of culpability encouraged to the point of deadly scrupulosity in so many cases, coupled with the adamantine conviction of an intrinsic separation from God. For many people, that in itself is an a priori definition of hell.

I feel, myself, from my own experience and watching that of many Catholic friends, that there are large portions of emotionalism and literalism that are cancers on the body of the church. It is simply not viable for many in terms of the needs they have brought to its feet for reconciliation.

Such was my case, and my knowledge of theology was of a degree that I was occasionally able to stump priests. It is not in my case anger, but disappointment. In the case of more emotional individuals, anger and hatred might come to the fore as a reaction to the failure of the church to show them a practical way. And please, I am not speaking here of any of the dogmatic issues that have been presented as possibilities for "falling away." It might be its history of abuse of Love through the ages. I don't know. But in my case, at least, and in many others, the prime issue has not even been alluded to. It is in that and those areas that neither the church nor its dogma, even after serious inquiry of years duration, was even remotely satisfactory as a solution, resolution, or even palative to me.

That does not touch the very sincere and honest devotion of the many Catholics who are not faced with what I was, or what many I know were. Obviously and clearly the Church can be a way of devotional accomplishment for many. So bless you all who have their faith intact.

Last edited by Detales; Feb 8, '09 at 6:41 pm. Reason: spelling
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  #13  
Old Feb 8, '09, 10:52 pm
ATL Granny ATL Granny is offline
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Default Re: Help? Why do they hate the faith so very much?

Detales:

What a sad perception both you and your parents have of the Catholic Church. All of us have baggage we've brought with us from childhood, and none seem to be heavier than those we've heaped upon ourselves over things we believe we can't be forgiven for. The fact that your father never accepted the forgiveness that God offers through the Sacrament of Reconciliation does not in any way negate the fact that he was truly forgiven. Those who dwell on God's Judgement rather than His Mercy indeed have a living hell. And while you may have heard somewhere or even experienced this yourself through improper teaching, living in fear of judgment with no hope of reconciliation with God is most definitely not what the Catholic Church teaches.

I would like to recommend a wonderful book that your Mom may want to read -- or you can read it to her if she is too infirm. It is called "Glimpses of Heaven" by Trudy Harris, R.N. It's subtitle is "True Stories of Hope & Peace at the End of Life's Journey." Trudy was a Hospice Nurse for decades. The true stories she relates give us concrete examples of how God reaches down to shower us with His Mercy and love before He brings us Home. The book is available through Amazon.com.

I hope it will give your Mom the comfort and peace she so desperately needs.
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Old Feb 9, '09, 9:36 am
Detales Detales is offline
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Default Re: Help? Why do they hate the faith so very much?

Thanks, ATL, for your kind words. One of those she has, and the other I will see if I can get for her.

I have no sad perception of the Church, because that is an anonymous entity to me oter than as my experience with its members as far as I have met them, and my rather extenstive, albeit amature, studies. What I do have is a perception that my folks and my friends have misconstrued Meaning in its highest sense that I am capable of percieving, and due to whatever it was that they accepted as a cosmology, they are suffering very unnecesarily. Somehow they got those perceptions in the course of following their understanding ot the teachings of the Church and the Saints as they were presented. There is a dysfunction somewhere; that is all.
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Old Feb 9, '09, 10:39 am
ATL Granny ATL Granny is offline
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Default Re: Help? Why do they hate the faith so very much?

Detales:

There was one book mentioned -- not two. The second "title" was actually the subtitle of the original book. (Sorry to confuse you!) It has only been out less than a year so I suspect your Mom has not read it yet.

Here is a snippet from the back cover: "You'll marvel at how patients receive exactly what they needed to see or hear in order to die peacefully and well. And you'll find great hope and peace in knowing that God goes to great lengths to redeem, comfort, and prepare His children to come home."

You can find it and read the reviews here: http://www.amazon.com/Glimpses-Heave...4200550&sr=8-1

Again, I believe a book such as this will help your Mother see God in a different light and I pray that she will pass on with a smile on her face , eager to meet her Savior.

You, on the other hand........ I wish you well in your journey. I was raised Catholic then left and had much anger and ugly things to say about the Catholicism I had been taught to believe. As I said in my first post, I have siblings who are still in that camp. For me, after dabbling with other religions, the Eucharist brought me back.

You are here in this Catholic forum for a reason other than to simply tear down the Church. God is good and merciful. Again, I wish you well on your journey.
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