Is the Catholic Church in America pro-life?

ishii · #1 Feb 8, '09, 12:52 am

Is the Catholic Church in America pro-life? In the past few weeks, in the archdiocese in which I reside, I have noticed a few things which have me questioning whether the leadership of the Catholic church here is seriously pro-life. First, our pro-choice governor is selected to be the keynote speaker for an event put on by the Washington State Catholic Conference on "faithful citizenship." I wrote our archbishop expressing my concern about this. Come to find out, he is the head of this organization that chose the pro-abortion governor to speak. He never replied to my letter. Then, today at church I noticed an ad for "40 days for life " - a pro-life event that is starting soon which involves prayer, fasting, and a vigil outside of abortion clinics. Right next to the ad, however, was another ad for something called, " The Northwest Catholic Women's Convocation." I noticed a common theme among the speakers: they are all radical, feminist, pro-abortion liberals. Now, how can a Catholic archdiocese promote pro-life events, while simultaneously approving of official Catholic events that involve pro-abortion speakers/politicians? How can an archdiocese be pro-life and also allow radical pro-abortionists to be promoted and given legitimacy? This is what is happening in the Seattle Archdiocese and I do not accept it. But if the Archbishop does not respond to a respectful letter pointing this out, what can one do? Any ideas?

Ishii

One Dove · #2 Feb 8, '09, 4:12 am

Dear Ishii,

Don't be discouraged, there's a lot of this going around right now. Fortunately, there are individuals, like yourself, who have the strength and conscience necessary to bring it to the attention of other like-minded people.

I just finished reviewing the Northwest Catholic Women's Convocation IV Keynote and Workshop Speakers list, and you are correct.

The first name that jumped out was one of the keynote speakers, Cokie Roberts. Ms. Roberts has a syndicated column with her husband Steve Roberts, wherein she has repeatedly espoused abortion rights and ridiculed pro-lifers as "extremists." The Robertses characterized the federal ban on partial-birth abortion as "off the track" and "cynical game-playing" by pro-life activists.

In an April 2007 segment for ABC News, Ms. Roberts even went so far as to say that she found the Supreme Court decision upholding this ban on partial-birth abortion "offensive as a woman."

In addition to her position on abortion, Ms. Roberts has also publicly attacked Pope Benedict XVI as "really lacking in the theological virtue of charity," "an extremely controversial choice" and "the most conservative voice of Catholicism."

Just having Cokie Roberts speaking at what is supposed to be a spiritually uplifting and faith building gathering of Catholic women, is insane.

The rest of the list, except for a few, is just as bad. If I didn't know this was for Catholic women, I would have thought it was some kind of New Age retreat. Very disturbing.

What can one do? You are doing it -- speaking up, speaking out for what is right and against what is wrong. You've just gained at least one ally in me, and though I'm getting ready to go to Mass this morning, I will be working on this when I get back.

Best Wishes,

One Dove
AbortionAbout.com

turtle18 · #3 Feb 8, '09, 7:32 pm

You have a very valid point.

To answer your questions, no I don't believe the Catholic Church in America is pro-life. You have this bizarre dichotomy where those on the left seem to believe that you are evil if you are pro-life & that pro-lifers don't really care about anyone but unborn babies. They don't even welcome or support the pro-life ministries in their Church--instead they constantly criticize it and/or bash it.

No matter what diocese you are in, you rarely ever hear intercessory prayers to end abortion. You rarely ever see priests speak out against the issue. I honestly believe if the Church would just offer up some prayers to stop this horrific tragedy, then abortion would end. It wouldn't matter who the president is or who is on the Supreme Court. What would be more powerful than to offer up these prayers at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass from every parish in every diocese every day across the country? We need to display some faith before the altar of God.

To answer your question, there is not a lot that can be done. The Roman Catholic Church in America simply doesn't follow the Vatican on a lot of issues & concerns. It is a question of obedience for a lot of the clergy and the bishops.

ethereality · #4 Feb 8, '09, 8:00 pm

I say you speak with your priest and work your way up the chain of authority as necessary. The Catholic Church is very organized, as every entity with authority must be these days.

I'm a college student. If I object to something in the classroom, I can't just go to the Provost or President of the university and demand that he fix it. First I speak with the professor, then the section coordinator, then the department chair, etc.

All branches of the Church should be deemed in communion with the Vatican until their heresy becomes clear and they are excommunicated (but hopefully they would repent and it wouldn't come to such therapeutic measures.)

Don't just write one letter; write several (working through the proper chain of command, of course). Jesus tells us the parable of the woman asking something from the corrupt judge, how if not from his charity, then from her repeated requests will he grant her what she asks. If I recall, this parable was teaching us about our prayer to God -- if God does not at first grant our prayer, we should continue to pray, and to pray unceasingly and with thanksgiving, as Paul writes. (Of course, God will be far more generous and communicative than the corrupt judge, if we open our hearts and listen!) As an exemplary case we have St. Augustine's mother (whose name escapes me -- St. Martha?) who prayed for what, forty years before her wicked son converted -- and then what great fruit he bore!

So, don't lose hope or faith, and know that God is always in control; "The truth that God is at work in all the actions of his creatures is inseparable from faith in God the Creator" (CCC 308). See V. GOD CARRIES OUT HIS PLAN: DIVINE PROVIDENCE, CCC 302-314.

My point in all this is, if Jesus tells us this parable to guide us in prayer with God, how much more patience we must have with each other! So, don't give up after a few tries, and I would definitely speak with the pastor of your local church about this matter.

Also, see USCCB Pro-Life Activities; our bishop spoke recently at a TN Pro-Life rally, stating that all bishops across USA are working together in unanimous opposition to FOCA, etc.

It seems to me that we are decidedly pro-life, even though we make mistakes, just as we are individually decidedly Christian, yet make mistakes.

Hope this post helps.

DelicateMelody · #5 Feb 8, '09, 8:40 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereality

I say you speak with your priest and work your way up the chain of authority as necessary. The Catholic Church is very organized, as every entity with authority must be these days.

I'm a college student. If I object to something in the classroom, I can't just go to the Provost or President of the university and demand that he fix it. First I speak with the professor, then the section coordinator, then the department chair, etc.

All branches of the Church should be deemed in communion with the Vatican until their heresy becomes clear and they are excommunicated (but hopefully they would repent and it wouldn't come to such therapeutic measures.)

Don't just write one letter; write several (working through the proper chain of command, of course). Jesus tells us the parable of the woman asking something from the corrupt judge, how if not from his charity, then from her repeated requests will he grant her what she asks. If I recall, this parable was teaching us about our prayer to God -- if God does not at first grant our prayer, we should continue to pray, and to pray unceasingly and with thanksgiving, as Paul writes. (Of course, God will be far more generous and communicative than the corrupt judge, if we open our hearts and listen!) As an exemplary case we have St. Augustine's mother (whose name escapes me -- St. Martha?) who prayed for what, forty years before her wicked son converted -- and then what great fruit he bore!

So, don't lose hope or faith, and know that God is always in control; "The truth that God is at work in all the actions of his creatures is inseparable from faith in God the Creator" (CCC 308). See V. GOD CARRIES OUT HIS PLAN: DIVINE PROVIDENCE, CCC 302-314.

My point in all this is, if Jesus tells us this parable to guide us in prayer with God, how much more patience we must have with each other! So, don't give up after a few tries, and I would definitely speak with the pastor of your local church about this matter.

Also, see USCCB Pro-Life Activities; our bishop spoke recently at a TN Pro-Life rally, stating that all bishops across USA are working together in unanimous opposition to FOCA, etc.

It seems to me that we are decidedly pro-life, even though we make mistakes, just as we are individually decidedly Christian, yet make mistakes.

Hope this post helps.

Thank you for the useful and uplifting post!

Dori1 · #6 Feb 9, '09, 5:32 am

Ethereality put it very well. The Catholic Church in America definitely claims to be pro-life. There are some areas, however, where disobedience is rampant. What I have been taught is that you, as was stated, start talking locally.......write letters as necessary, but face to face dicussion is better where possibe.

Start with your priest, then try the bishop, then the Archbishop of your diocese, go to the Vatican if you must. The only way for heresy and disobedience to be addressed in the Church is for members to be willing to speak up and expose it. It thrives in the dark. Shine a light on it. Start privately, assuming the local leadership may not know how corrupt the speakers at these activities are. If it becomes clear that they are not ignorant but are complicit, then start turning on lights and reporting up the chain of command.

I will be praying. Good luck in your battle.

BTW, Ethereality, It's St. Monica.

Much love in Christ

Verisimilitude · #7 Feb 9, '09, 7:04 am

Yes, I think it is but I think many American Catholics are confused and conflicted. There is a secular ideology at work that competes with the religious ideology and to a large degree the secular ideology is winning.

Popular culture has warped the view of the 1st Amendment so that people in public life (politicians & media pundints) must divorce their faith in order to participate in public life in an effort to abide by a 'separation of Church and State' ideology. Look at Catholic politicians like Nancy Pelosi, Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, Rudy Guiliani, Bill Richardson...all very pro-abortion politicians cheered by the non-Catholic electroate as more sophisticated in belief and practice than 'traditional' Catholics. Barack Obama is deemed a 'reasonable Christian' by many anti-Christians because he won't 'force' his religious views down peoples throats- much less define them.

It does not help that many American Catholics are pro-war in Iraq and Afghanistan, War on Terror... These American Catholics adopt a view of using the might of the American military is justified in 'helping the less fortunate/oppressed' around the world much in the same way some American Catholics accept open borderes and refuse to stem the flow of illegal immigrants because 'they are only looking for work' and should not be turned away because we are commanded by Christ to not turn away any that ask.

To the non-Catholic American this presents a conflcited view of Catholicism. How can an American Catholic be commited to the protection of human life in the womb and be so callous about born human life in offensive pre-emptive war overseas? How can an American Catholic respect US national soverignty when they encourage, hide, and assist illegal immigrants obtain housing, education, and medical care at the expense of public funds- not just Catholic charity?

American Catholics do not act consistantly with respect to their faith and let the media, non-Catholics, and poor practicing Catholics define the Catholic position. It is not so much the Church speaking a unified message which I think they do, but the people in her acting in a unified way which I think they do not.

wcknight · #8 Feb 9, '09, 7:15 am

I think the official Catholic Church is pro-life, meaning the Church hierachy, priests, ministers and clergy are pro-life. But many of the members are not pro-life.

I think as much as 70% of Catholics are Democrats but there is not much of a pro-life movement in the Democratic party.

We ran a pro-Life petition after masses and many refused to sign or look at it.

manualman · #9 Feb 9, '09, 3:39 pm

Of course it is.

But there are many members, priests and probably even some bishops who are not in accord with the teaching of the catholic Church on that matter. Others may not have a doctrinal problem with Church teaching, but have as their first principle to operate in a manner so as to be the least offensive to the most people.

IMO, there is a link between abortion attitudes and contraception. Find me a diocese or even a parish where Church teaching is proclaimed on the matter of contraception and there you will ALSO find a healthy, grass roots pro-life advocacy.

Catholicism is not just a cultural inheritance. It's time Americans started learning that.

ishii · #10 Feb 9, '09, 8:24 pm

One Dove, thanks for your encouraging words. This Northwest "Catholic" women's convacation is radical enougth, although this kind of stuff is rampant on "catholic" college campuses around the country. My concern right now is not so much with the existence of these groups and their events. Right now there isn't much I can do about them. But rather the juxtoposition of the ad for this radical group and its pro-abortion speakers with the pro-life (anti-FOCA) ad right next to it. What I am finding is there are all sorts of pro-abortion speakers being advertised right next to our pro-life events. That is misleading, inconsistent, and sows confusion among Catholics in America. We need clarity and unity in the entire Catholic church in America, from the bishops right on down to the parish priests.

Ethereality, you are right. One must start at the lowest level and work your way up, andt that is what I have done. I have sent letters and emails out but have yet to hear back from anyone except for a response from the church "outreach coordinator" who basically said, "sure our governor is pro-choice, but she is right on so many other issues like poverty, environment, etc." You are also right that we must also pray. I am sure that prayers are just as important as activism (though we have to do both).

Wcknight, I have to say that sadly, many of the church heirarchy in the Church (atleast in my diocese) talk a big pro-life talk but don't walk the walk. The Washington State Catholic Conference has embraced our pro-abortion governor by giving her the keynote speech for its big event at the state capitol. The archbishop is the head of that organization. I may have to forward this to the papal nuncio.

Thanks for your responses thus far. I will keep you posted on any progress.

Ishii

GodLovesTheSpek · #11 Feb 10, '09, 3:40 pm

The entire Catholic Church is Pro-Life. End of Story. Right here, straight from the Pope -- essential reading:

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/jo...-vitae_en.html

ex cathedra.

The out of communion Catholics who are so-called Pro-Choice have excommunicated themselves from The Church. It is automatic by the act itself. Those who didn't know, have now been informed.

The Sacrament Of Reconciliation is the recourse.

We can pray for the excommunicants.

captbackfire · #12 Feb 11, '09, 9:31 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by turtle18

You have a very valid point.

To answer your questions, no I don't believe the Catholic Church in America is pro-life. You have this bizarre dichotomy where those on the left seem to believe that you are evil if you are pro-life & that pro-lifers don't really care about anyone but unborn babies. They don't even welcome or support the pro-life ministries in their Church--instead they constantly criticize it and/or bash it. "Dichotomy: division into two mutually exclusive, opposed, or contradictory groups: a dichotomy between thought and action." Care to offer a non-biased description of the other side of this dichotomy?
No matter what diocese you are in, you rarely ever hear intercessory prayers to end abortion. You rarely ever see priests speak out against the issue. I honestly believe if the Church would just offer up some prayers to stop this horrific tragedy, then abortion would end. The abortion dilemma is considerably more complex than one which could be addressed by prayer alone. It wouldn't matter who the president is or who is on the Supreme Court. What would be more powerful than to offer up these prayers at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass from every parish in every diocese every day across the country? We need to display some faith before the altar of God. I believe the faith is there to a degree, but that the solution is not.
To answer your question, there is not a lot that can be done. The Roman Catholic Church in America simply doesn't follow the Vatican on a lot of issues & concerns. It is a question of obedience for a lot of the clergy and the bishops.I feel that what we are witnessing is the evolution of the Catholic Church in America. Another few generations and the "old school Catholics" will be a memory.

capt

**fix** · #13 Feb 11, '09, 11:17 am

Quote:

I feel that what we are witnessing is the evolution of the Catholic Church in America. Another few generations and the "old school Catholics" will be a memory.

I think it is the direct opposite. The left wing relativists still shaking their fists like it is 1968 are dying out. As the older liberals who refuse to submit are dying out the new and orthodox will fill their places.

captbackfire · #14 Feb 11, '09, 5:30 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fix

I think it is the direct opposite. The left wing relativists still shaking their fists like it is 1968 are dying out. As the older liberals who refuse to submit are dying out the new and orthodox will fill their places.

I disagree that the "left wing" relativists are dying out. I am a relativist of sorts, as are most of the people I call my friends. We are generally in our fifties and sixties and have mellowed a great deal with age and experience. It has been decades since I've witnessed any of my fellow relativists carrying on as if at a war rally or demonstration. We live, we learn, we love, we vote.

To each his own.

capt

**fix** · #15 Feb 12, '09, 7:14 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by captbackfire

I disagree that the "left wing" relativists are dying out. I am a relativist of sorts, as are most of the people I call my friends. We are generally in our fifties and sixties and have mellowed a great deal with age and experience. It has been decades since I've witnessed any of my fellow relativists carrying on as if at a war rally or demonstration. We live, we learn, we love, we vote.

To each his own.

capt

I was referring to the liberals in positions of authority within the Church.