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  #1  
Old Feb 16, '09, 12:33 pm
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DavidFilmer DavidFilmer is offline
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Default Does God promise to feed, clothe, and shelter us?

Jesus says,
Quote:
Why are you anxious about clothes? Learn from the way the wild flowers grow. They do not work or spin. But I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was clothed like one of them.
If God so clothes the grass of the field, which grows today and is thrown into the oven tomorrow, will he not much more provide for you, O you of little faith? So do not worry and say, 'What are we to eat?' or 'What are we to drink?' or 'What are we to wear?' All these things the pagans seek. Your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. But seek first the kingdom (of God) and his righteousness, and all these things will be given you besides.
Matthew 8:26-33
Or, in Luke's account:
Quote:
Notice how the flowers grow. They do not toil or spin. But I tell you, not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of them. If God so clothes the grass in the field that grows today and is thrown into the oven tomorrow, will he not much more provide for you, O you of little faith? As for you, do not seek what you are to eat and what you are to drink, and do not worry anymore. All the nations of the world seek for these things, and your Father knows that you need them. Instead, seek his kingdom, and these other things will be given you besides.
Luke 12:27-31
If someone seeks the Kingdom of God, does God promise to feed, clothe, and shelter him? I don't think this is true, but these passages seem to say so.
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  #2  
Old Feb 16, '09, 1:06 pm
AshleyBelle AshleyBelle is offline
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Default Re: Does God promise to feed, clothe, and shelter us?

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Originally Posted by DavidFilmer View Post
Jesus says,
Or, in Luke's account:
If someone seeks the Kingdom of God, does God promise to feed, clothe, and shelter him? I don't think this is true, but these passages seem to say so.
I believe in the vision of our Lady in Lourdes, France.. St. Bernadette was told these words:

"I do not promise to make you happy in this world, but in the next."

I think sometimes God does clearly provide for us in worldly, temporal things because He cares for us.. But His promise is for our eternal provision not temporal.

If I am mistaken on the words of our Lady in Lourdes, I apologize! This was just taken from memory. God bless!
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  #3  
Old Feb 16, '09, 1:19 pm
06convert 06convert is offline
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Default Re: Does God promise to feed, clothe, and shelter us?

Interesting question. I think the answer is no. Sometimes with scripture you have to put the book down and take a look at the world.

If this was a literal promise from God there would not be people in this world without shelter, clothing, and/or food. The plain evidence suggests that there is a different meaning behind these scriptures.
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Old Feb 16, '09, 1:40 pm
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Default Re: Does God promise to feed, clothe, and shelter us?

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If this was a literal promise from God there would not be people in this world without shelter, clothing, and/or food.
My question was prompted by a discussion with a friend. He claims that if a Christian asks God for these things, and has faith that God will provide them, then God will.

He would answer that nobody who lacks these things is a Christian with true faith who has actually asked God for them. Because I reject his literal, physical, and worldly interpretation of these passages, I would be an example of a Christian who lacks this faith and therefore could not expect to benefit from this "promise."
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Old Feb 16, '09, 1:55 pm
06convert 06convert is offline
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Default Re: Does God promise to feed, clothe, and shelter us?

You are correct he is presumptious.
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  #6  
Old Feb 16, '09, 4:34 pm
cpayne cpayne is offline
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Default Re: Does God promise to feed, clothe, and shelter us?

Now I'm curious, too. In both Old and New Testaments, there are many promises from God to bless physically (financially, circumstantially, etc.). These promises are rather more prominent and numerous in the O.T., but are throughout the Bible. Is it the position of the CC that all of these passages are to be "spiritualized" and that Christians cannot have faith in God's (physical) provision?
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Old Feb 17, '09, 11:31 am
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DavidFilmer DavidFilmer is offline
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Default Re: Does God promise to feed, clothe, and shelter us?

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You are correct he is presumptious.
He would claim that he is simply reading the plain meaning of Scripture. And it would be hard to argue the point.

Catholics are accused of being presumptuous when we take the words of Our Lord in John 6 literally - Jesus will literally feed us his Flesh and Blood. The wording of the passages above are as plain and simple as John 6. How can I suggest my friend is being presumptuous when he expects God to feed him something which is far less than what I expect?
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  #8  
Old Feb 17, '09, 11:38 am
Gottle of Geer Gottle of Geer is offline
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Default Re: Does God promise to feed, clothe, and shelter us?

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Originally Posted by DavidFilmer View Post
Jesus says,

Or, in Luke's account:



If someone seeks the Kingdom of God, does God promise to feed, clothe, and shelter him? I don't think this is true, but these passages seem to say so.
## No. There's always an (unspoken) escape clause, which qualifies these promises into nothingness. Bernie Madoff is more trustworthy.
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  #9  
Old Feb 17, '09, 11:53 am
cpayne cpayne is offline
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Default Re: Does God promise to feed, clothe, and shelter us?

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Originally Posted by Gottle of Geer View Post
## No. There's always an (unspoken) escape clause, which qualifies these promises into nothingness. Bernie Madoff is more trustworthy.
I guess I would repeat my question of Post 6. Any other thoughts?
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  #10  
Old Feb 17, '09, 11:56 am
Catholic Dude Catholic Dude is offline
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Default Re: Does God promise to feed, clothe, and shelter us?

Rom 8: 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36As it is written:
"For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered." 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
I don't think the passages you gave state that such things will come the way the "health and wealth" Gospel advocates say. They say God knows what you need and when, but it certainly is not saying if you are hungry God will guarantee you your favorite burger or need clothes and are guaranteed the latest brands.

Those promises are true, God does provide, but He knowing us better than we know ourselves knows how and when to provide. Our duty is to trust in Him.

Jesus says in that passage that to approach life in the materialist way is the way pagans live life, we are called to go beyond that and not count on God only so far as he is blessing us materially. He knows what will bring material and spiritual good to us.
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  #11  
Old Feb 17, '09, 11:59 am
Catholic Dude Catholic Dude is offline
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Default Re: Does God promise to feed, clothe, and shelter us?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpayne View Post
Now I'm curious, too. In both Old and New Testaments, there are many promises from God to bless physically (financially, circumstantially, etc.). These promises are rather more prominent and numerous in the O.T., but are throughout the Bible. Is it the position of the CC that all of these passages are to be "spiritualized" and that Christians cannot have faith in God's (physical) provision?
Not at all. God does bless materially as well as spiritually, and that is God's promise to do so for those who trust him.

What the NT did was to shift attention away from material blessings onto the more important spiritual blessings. Back then, people were putting too much trust that their material possessions was proof of God's favor.

In the Gospel, we are to trust God knows how and when we REALLY need things (eg food, clothing, etc) and we should not think the like pagans who live as if materials were the purpose of life.
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  #12  
Old Feb 18, '09, 12:06 am
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DavidFilmer DavidFilmer is offline
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Default Re: Does God promise to feed, clothe, and shelter us?

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Originally Posted by Catholic Dude View Post
Quote:
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered." No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
Romans 8: 35
This is a good "context" passage - obviously Christians cannot overcome famine or nakedness if God promises to intervene with food and clothing before either becomes a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catholic Dude View Post
I don't think the passages you gave state that such things will come the way the "health and wealth" Gospel advocates say. They say God knows what you need and when, but it certainly is not saying if you are hungry God will guarantee you your favorite burger or need clothes and are guaranteed the latest brands.
My friend doesn't expect his favorite food or the latest fashions. He expects nothing more than food in his belly and clothes on his back in his time of need. And he claims that Jesus has clearly promised this for those who seek the Kingdom of God (and the plain sense of these passages from Scripture would seem to agree).

Yet, I firmly believe that many faithful and devout Christians (both Catholic and protestant) have starved to death, or died from freezing or exposure, even as they pleaded for Divine assistance.

If the passages I cited from Mark and Luke mentioned only food then I could see them in a Eucharistic context. But the addition of "clothing" makes this context far less plausible.

Paul's passage in Romans 8 helps establish a more "realistic" interpretation of these Gospel passages, but, still, the words of Our Lord must be considered above any other testimony, and it seems that Jesus was clearly saying that the Faithful would have (at least) food in their bellies and clothes on their backs.
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  #13  
Old Feb 18, '09, 10:35 am
Catholic Dude Catholic Dude is offline
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Default Re: Does God promise to feed, clothe, and shelter us?

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Originally Posted by DavidFilmer View Post
This is a good "context" passage - obviously Christians cannot overcome famine or nakedness if God promises to intervene with food and clothing before either becomes a problem.

My friend doesn't expect his favorite food or the latest fashions. He expects nothing more than food in his belly and clothes on his back in his time of need. And he claims that Jesus has clearly promised this for those who seek the Kingdom of God (and the plain sense of these passages from Scripture would seem to agree).

Yet, I firmly believe that many faithful and devout Christians (both Catholic and protestant) have starved to death, or died from freezing or exposure, even as they pleaded for Divine assistance.

If the passages I cited from Mark and Luke mentioned only food then I could see them in a Eucharistic context. But the addition of "clothing" makes this context far less plausible.

Paul's passage in Romans 8 helps establish a more "realistic" interpretation of these Gospel passages, but, still, the words of Our Lord must be considered above any other testimony, and it seems that Jesus was clearly saying that the Faithful would have (at least) food in their bellies and clothes on their backs.
I certainly see the tension. The only other factor that comes to mind that should be considered is the Christian failure to help out other needy Christians. The "ordinary" way the poor are helped is by donations from other Christians.
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  #14  
Old Feb 19, '09, 7:02 am
06convert 06convert is offline
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Default Re: Does God promise to feed, clothe, and shelter us?

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Originally Posted by DavidFilmer View Post

Catholics are accused of being presumptuous when we take the words of Our Lord in John 6 literally - Jesus will literally feed us his Flesh and Blood. The wording of the passages above are as plain and simple as John 6. How can I suggest my friend is being presumptuous when he expects God to feed him something which is far less than what I expect?
Well, I suppose, if you consider the promise of food, God does feed us. In the eucharist and spiritually. If you think about a cardboard box as being sheltered, and some rags as being clothes, I suppose we could pretty much have those things available to us also.

However, being fed in the sense we are guaranteed a full course meal, or having clean clothing and good shelter just isn't something that can be promised. I'm sure there are plenty of people in the world that trust in God, but have had to go a day or two without food or shelter, and in some cases clothing.

Also I think it worthwhile to mention that John the Disciple was the author of the book of John. John was an integral part of the formation of what is now the Catholic Church. What the Church is now would not be possible if it weren't for the work of people like John. Although the term "Catholic" wasn't used in those times to identify a persons perspective of Christian belief, there were certainly no "protestants". So when you read the Bible keep in mind many of the authors were in a sense "Catholic".

Catholics shouldn't be presumptious, but the Catholic Church has the authority from Christ to define the faith and interpret scripture. Any thing that someone teaches in contradiction is simply wrong. How do you teach that to a protestant? No idea.
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