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  #1  
Old Feb 17, '09, 7:16 am
FM927 FM927 is offline
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Default Does GOD know when we are going to die and how?

To me that is "predestination" not if we are going to choose God or not!
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  #2  
Old Feb 17, '09, 7:45 am
cpayne cpayne is offline
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Default Re: Does GOD know when we are going to die and how?

Predestination is actually biblical if understood correctly. It should be linked to "foreknowledge," which is what you are describing. Yes, God knows when we will die, and yes, His knowledge is completely accurate. But knowledge of an event does not necessarily "cause" the event to occur.
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  #3  
Old Feb 17, '09, 9:23 am
mchale mchale is offline
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Default Re: Does GOD know when we are going to die and how?

I concur with cpayne. The basic problem is, when most people talk of predestination, they are really talking about double predestination. In other words, God not only has foreknowledge of our choices and fate, but also created us specifically for that purpose which essentially leaves one arguing that God created people to be condemned to Hell.

Rather, I prefer to think of it as being God created with the hope that all will be saved, but with the knowledge that some will not.

--
Bill
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  #4  
Old Feb 17, '09, 10:31 am
FM927 FM927 is offline
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Default Re: Does GOD know when we are going to die and how?

why does everyone keep on talking about hell!
I was thinking more along the lines that if "Someone was destined to die in a plane crash, that someone would be on the plane that crashed, but the person that was not meant to die in that plane crash, would have somehow missed the plane!
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  #5  
Old Feb 17, '09, 10:37 am
cpayne cpayne is offline
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Default Re: Does GOD know when we are going to die and how?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FM927 View Post
why does everyone keep on talking about hell!
I was thinking more along the lines that if "Someone was destined to die in a plane crash, that someone would be on the plane that crashed, but the person that was not meant to die in that plane crash, would have somehow missed the plane!


I guess I would just refer back to my previous post, which doesn't mention hell. Again, even if God perfectly knows of the plane crash situation, that doesn't mean that God's knowledge is the "cause" of the plane crash, or of who is on the plane.
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  #6  
Old Feb 17, '09, 11:32 am
ICEArmy ICEArmy is offline
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Default Re: Does GOD know when we are going to die and how?

This reminds me of what my teacher told me in class one day about this subject.

For example:

You are in a classroom taking notes. God's "predestination" is that he knows that you will walk out of that classroom. He does not know how you will walk out of it. He does not know if you are going to tie your shoe first or stop and talk to someone before leaving the room. He knows that you will eventually leave the classroom. He does not know every detail of the event that is to be taken place. He simply knows you will leave the classroom and eventually be on your way.
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  #7  
Old Feb 17, '09, 11:55 am
cpayne cpayne is offline
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Default Re: Does GOD know when we are going to die and how?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ICEArmy View Post
This reminds me of what my teacher told me in class one day about this subject.

For example:

You are in a classroom taking notes. God's "predestination" is that he knows that you will walk out of that classroom. He does not know how you will walk out of it. He does not know if you are going to tie your shoe first or stop and talk to someone before leaving the room. He knows that you will eventually leave the classroom. He does not know every detail of the event that is to be taken place. He simply knows you will leave the classroom and eventually be on your way.
I sincerely hope this was not your religion instructor.
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  #8  
Old Feb 17, '09, 12:01 pm
Gottle of Geer Gottle of Geer is offline
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Default Re: Does GOD know when we are going to die and how?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FM927 View Post
why does everyone keep on talking about hell!
I was thinking more along the lines that if "Someone was destined to die in a plane crash, that someone would be on the plane that crashed, but the person that was not meant to die in that plane crash, would have somehow missed the plane!
## That's not predestination - it's fore-ordination. Of a sort. These doctrines are far more subtle & intelligent than people seem to realise.

If people mis-name things, as though idea A belonged to doctrine B when it does not, they have not an earthly of rightly understanding the meaning of doctrine B.
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  #9  
Old Feb 17, '09, 12:01 pm
ConallCernach ConallCernach is offline
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Default Re: Does GOD know when we are going to die and how?

Well, God, being outside of time, eternally witnesses past, present and future. So God can be eternally witnessing your birth, death, 14th birthday, etc. So He would know when and how you die, because it is eternally present to Him. But this does not take away from Free Will.

Pax
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  #10  
Old Feb 17, '09, 1:28 pm
mchale mchale is offline
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Default Re: Does GOD know when we are going to die and how?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FM927 View Post
why does everyone keep on talking about hell!
I was thinking more along the lines that if "Someone was destined to die in a plane crash, that someone would be on the plane that crashed, but the person that was not meant to die in that plane crash, would have somehow missed the plane!
Either or... but predestination is usually thought of in terms of our eternal fate, not the more immediate question regarding our death. God, at least in some sense, knows all the details about our lives... but he doesn't create us specifically for the purpose of living the life we do live. Rather he creates us so that we can ultimately choose to respond to his love with love and thus be saved. The rest are essentially details that God likely does not care about except in so far as it impacts us living towards our true purpose (or not as the case may be).

--
Bill
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  #11  
Old Feb 17, '09, 4:18 pm
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RosaryFan RosaryFan is offline
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Default Re: Does GOD know when we are going to die and how?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FM927 View Post
To me that is "predestination" not if we are going to choose God or not!
God knows everything, past, present and future. That doesn't exclude our free will. He just knows the outcome. God has the whole picture in front of Him.
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"If we only knew how God regards this Sacrifice, we would risk our lives to be present at a single Mass." ~ St. Pio of Pietrelcina, stigmatic priest
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  #12  
Old Feb 17, '09, 4:21 pm
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RosaryFan RosaryFan is offline
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Default Re: Does GOD know when we are going to die and how?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ICEArmy View Post
This reminds me of what my teacher told me in class one day about this subject.

For example:

You are in a classroom taking notes. God's "predestination" is that he knows that you will walk out of that classroom. He does not know how you will walk out of it. He does not know if you are going to tie your shoe first or stop and talk to someone before leaving the room. He knows that you will eventually leave the classroom. He does not know every detail of the event that is to be taken place. He simply knows you will leave the classroom and eventually be on your way.
I think God knows whether or not you'll stop to tie your shoe. He might not care, but He knows.

Seriously, if all the hairs on your head are numbered, I think He knows "how" you will walk out of that classroom. Your "teacher" was wrong.
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Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves. ~Proverbs 31:8


"If we only knew how God regards this Sacrifice, we would risk our lives to be present at a single Mass." ~ St. Pio of Pietrelcina, stigmatic priest
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  #13  
Old Feb 17, '09, 4:24 pm
ConallCernach ConallCernach is offline
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Default Re: Does GOD know when we are going to die and how?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ICEArmy View Post
This reminds me of what my teacher told me in class one day about this subject.

For example:

You are in a classroom taking notes. God's "predestination" is that he knows that you will walk out of that classroom. He does not know how you will walk out of it. He does not know if you are going to tie your shoe first or stop and talk to someone before leaving the room. He knows that you will eventually leave the classroom. He does not know every detail of the event that is to be taken place. He simply knows you will leave the classroom and eventually be on your way.
That would be better suited for talking about what humans know. We know that people will eventually die. We don't know about their actions or their thoughts.

Pax
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