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  #1  
Old Mar 5, '09, 2:35 am
Mattapoisett64 Mattapoisett64 is offline
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Default Guidelines for spousal nudity vs. marital chastity?

What degree of being unclothed around each other is permitted to spouses before it becomes a sin against marital chastity? Assume that spouses can be unclothed during the marital act, although I've never seen this in writing. But what about incidental situations not related to the marriage debt, such as changing clothes in front of each other, sleeping in skimpy nightwear (or none at all), or even showering together? I'm currently bed confined due to surgery, and my wife has been washing me, but I was wondering if morality required that we get a male home health aide, as bed baths require me to be unclothed not in the context of the marriage act.
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  #2  
Old Mar 5, '09, 3:55 am
ForwardProgress ForwardProgress is offline
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Default Re: Guidelines for spousal nudity vs. marital chastity?

You CANT be serious...
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  #3  
Old Mar 5, '09, 4:48 am
Leopard Leopard is offline
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Default Re: Guidelines for spousal nudity vs. marital chastity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattapoisett64 View Post
What degree of being unclothed around each other is permitted to spouses before it becomes a sin against marital chastity? Assume that spouses can be unclothed during the marital act, although I've never seen this in writing. But what about incidental situations not related to the marriage debt, such as changing clothes in front of each other, sleeping in skimpy nightwear (or none at all), or even showering together? I'm currently bed confined due to surgery, and my wife has been washing me, but I was wondering if morality required that we get a male home health aide, as bed baths require me to be unclothed not in the context of the marriage act.
All the situations you have mentioned are permissible for one or both spouses to be nude in each other's presence. None are sinful. To the contrary, your wife's care for you in bathing you when you can not bathe yourself is a corporal work of mercy and therefore virtuous. I hope you are up and around soon.
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  #4  
Old Mar 5, '09, 5:40 am
Cluny Cluny is offline
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Default Re: Guidelines for spousal nudity vs. marital chastity?

As one old priest said about such matters, "Your body is her body. Her body is your body. What's the problem?"
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  #5  
Old Mar 5, '09, 5:44 am
aspawloski4th aspawloski4th is offline
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Default Re: Guidelines for spousal nudity vs. marital chastity?

And to think I thought Jansenism was stamped out in the church. I guess not.
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  #6  
Old Mar 5, '09, 6:15 am
mommybug47 mommybug47 is offline
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Default Re: Guidelines for spousal nudity vs. marital chastity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cluny View Post
As one old priest said about such matters, "Your body is her body. Her body is your body. What's the problem?"
We are made in the image ond likeness of God, our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, Just be as loivng and respectful to each other as you aould be to God.

There is some good stuff in the Catechism #2331-2372, 2360 says in part "Im Marriage the physicall intimacy of the spouses becomes a sign and a pledge of spiritual Communication....intamacy is not just "the Marriage Bed" but a knowing on a very deep and personal way, thoughts and body.
Hope it helps, share and love one another!

I think a male nurse would be an intrusion into your marital union. In the hospital or nursing home you would have a female nurse most likely. Your wife best protects the sacred bond of your marriage.
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  #7  
Old Mar 5, '09, 6:47 am
StCsDavid StCsDavid is offline
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Default Re: Guidelines for spousal nudity vs. marital chastity?

A little more charity for the OP is in order. It's a good question and appeared to be asked sincerely. IMHO, there's nothing wrong with being in one's birthday suit in front of one's spouse; however, there's never anything wrong with a little modesty.

There was a time, early 1900s, when it was considered a sign of disrespect towards one's wife to show up at the breakfast table unkempt. We might laugh at that, today, but that only shows how far we've devolved as a culture. While that period of history had its moral problems as well, they were nothing like the level of normalized depravity we experience, today, in part because of their adherence to a high expectation of treating people with dignity and respect.
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  #8  
Old Mar 5, '09, 6:50 am
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graceandglory graceandglory is offline
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Default Re: Guidelines for spousal nudity vs. marital chastity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattapoisett64 View Post
What degree of being unclothed around each other is permitted to spouses before it becomes a sin against marital chastity? Assume that spouses can be unclothed during the marital act, although I've never seen this in writing. But what about incidental situations not related to the marriage debt, such as changing clothes in front of each other, sleeping in skimpy nightwear (or none at all), or even showering together? I'm currently bed confined due to surgery, and my wife has been washing me, but I was wondering if morality required that we get a male home health aide, as bed baths require me to be unclothed not in the context of the marriage act.
I can't think of many things that would be more loving than caring for a sick spouse. Has your wife mentioned that she can't control her lust while washing you?

Christ said that lust is in our hearts, and that even spouses are not to burn with concupiscence for one another. You can read more about being "Naked Without Shame" from Pope John Paul II's Theology of the Body. I think the answers to your question here would be found in Christopher West's "Good News for Sex and Marriage."

Adam and Eve, when they walked with God, and had not yet turned their back on God, were naked without shame in the garden. They were naked even when it wasn't the context of the marital act. That was God's Original Plan before Original Sin. To be Naked Without Shame.
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  #9  
Old Mar 5, '09, 6:55 am
Caesar517 Caesar517 is offline
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Default Re: Guidelines for spousal nudity vs. marital chastity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattapoisett64 View Post
What degree of being unclothed around each other is permitted to spouses before it becomes a sin against marital chastity? Assume that spouses can be unclothed during the marital act, although I've never seen this in writing. But what about incidental situations not related to the marriage debt, such as changing clothes in front of each other, sleeping in skimpy nightwear (or none at all), or even showering together? I'm currently bed confined due to surgery, and my wife has been washing me, but I was wondering if morality required that we get a male home health aide, as bed baths require me to be unclothed not in the context of the marriage act.
There's nothing wrong with any of this.
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  #10  
Old Mar 5, '09, 8:09 am
manualman manualman is offline
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Default Re: Guidelines for spousal nudity vs. marital chastity?

OP should read "Good News About Sex & Marriage" for a more complete understanding of human sexuality and the full expression of it in marriage.
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  #11  
Old Mar 5, '09, 10:30 am
Mattapoisett64 Mattapoisett64 is offline
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Default Re: Guidelines for spousal nudity vs. marital chastity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aspawloski4th View Post
And to think I thought Jansenism was stamped out in the church. I guess not.


As the OP, I feel I need to justify my question. I used to be far more comfortable with marital sexuality issues, but frankly, reading this Forum for some time has shown me that others have questioned the morality of things I never questioned before--things like whether foreplay is morally acceptable; whether you can kiss your wife passionately in the morning before leaving for work; whether you can give your wife a "friendly pat" apart from performing the full Act; there was even a recent thread questioning the morality of lingerie when only your husband would see you. Made me feel like a moral slug for assuming all these were OK in marriage. So now I'm afraid to assume much of anything about marital morality. I didn't used to be a Jansienist, but maybe I've accidentally become one.
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  #12  
Old Mar 5, '09, 10:39 am
bilop bilop is offline
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Default Re: Guidelines for spousal nudity vs. marital chastity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattapoisett64 View Post
As the OP, I feel I need to justify my question. I used to be far more comfortable with marital sexuality issues, but frankly, reading this Forum for some time has shown me that others have questioned the morality of things I never questioned before--things like whether foreplay is morally acceptable; whether you can kiss your wife passionately in the morning before leaving for work; whether you can give your wife a "friendly pat" apart from performing the full Act; there was even a recent thread questioning the morality of lingerie when only your husband would see you. Made me feel like a moral slug for assuming all these were OK in marriage. So now I'm afraid to assume much of anything about marital morality. I didn't used to be a Jansienist, but maybe I've accidentally become one.
Unfortunately, people on this forum can tend to the extremes, i.e. "absolutely everything is permitted between married couples" or " only intercourse and you shouldn't really enjoy it".

Neither is true. Of course, there are only a couple of the latter type.

I echo the suggestion to get a copy of Christopher West's book, "The Good News about Sex and Marriage". It has the Nihil Obstat from Archbishop Chaput, who is as orthodox as they come.

The true Catholic teachings on married sexuality are actually not very restrictive at all.

God Bless
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  #13  
Old Mar 6, '09, 4:24 am
Seatuck Seatuck is offline
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Default Re: Guidelines for spousal nudity vs. marital chastity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattapoisett64 View Post
As the OP, I feel I need to justify my question. I used to be far more comfortable with marital sexuality issues, but frankly, reading this Forum for some time has shown me that others have questioned the morality of things I never questioned before--things like whether foreplay is morally acceptable; whether you can kiss your wife passionately in the morning before leaving for work; whether you can give your wife a "friendly pat" apart from performing the full Act; there was even a recent thread questioning the morality of lingerie when only your husband would see you. Made me feel like a moral slug for assuming all these were OK in marriage. So now I'm afraid to assume much of anything about marital morality. I didn't used to be a Jansienist, but maybe I've accidentally become one.

Glad you clarified. Listen, God created Adam and Eve and allowed them to be naked without any shame in the garden. He doesn't seem to have a problem with it. Why should anyone else? Don't allow yourself to get scrupulous about this.

Along with the book previously mentioned you can read Holy Sex by Greg Popcak or Love and Responsibility by Karol Wojtyla ( the previous pope) if you want to straighten out your thinking. Don't get scrupulous about this topic.

Another resource is a very cheap CD set titled Naked Without Shame by Christopher West.
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  #14  
Old Mar 6, '09, 1:00 pm
Non sum dignus Non sum dignus is offline
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Default Re: Guidelines for spousal nudity vs. marital chastity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattapoisett64 View Post
As the OP, I feel I need to justify my question. I used to be far more comfortable with marital sexuality issues, but frankly, reading this Forum for some time has shown me that others have questioned the morality of things I never questioned before--things like whether foreplay is morally acceptable; whether you can kiss your wife passionately in the morning before leaving for work; whether you can give your wife a "friendly pat" apart from performing the full Act; there was even a recent thread questioning the morality of lingerie when only your husband would see you. Made me feel like a moral slug for assuming all these were OK in marriage. So now I'm afraid to assume much of anything about marital morality. I didn't used to be a Jansienist, but maybe I've accidentally become one.
There's some good discussion around here, but the Magisterium, we ain't. Recalibrating your marriage because someone questions the morality of lingerie would be a bit rash.
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  #15  
Old Mar 6, '09, 1:22 pm
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lizaanne lizaanne is offline
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Default Re: Guidelines for spousal nudity vs. marital chastity?

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Originally Posted by Non sum dignus View Post
There's some good discussion around here, but the Magisterium, we ain't. Recalibrating your marriage because someone questions the morality of lingerie would be a bit rash.
EXACTLY!!

I would warn anyone who makes any major life changing decisions based on what they see on an internet forum - ANY internet forum - to really make sure they think outside the (computer) box first. Life is what happens when you step away from the computer. Be sure to speak with REAL people, and not folks on the internet about truly serious issues/questions such as this before really considering changing your life.

Sometimes I think forums need to have a disclaimer: "for entertainment purposes only"

~Liza
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