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Old Mar 6, '09, 5:39 pm
rpp rpp is offline
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Default Married Popes

In the wall, August Ambrose asked if there were any married popes.

The answer is yes. There were 10 that were definitely married.

However, none of them married after being ordained priest, deacon or after being elevated, whichever happened first.

St. Peter
St. Siricius
St. Felix III (II)
St. Hormisdas (His son became Pope St. Silverius)
St. Silverius (Son of Pope St. Hormisdas)
St. Agatho
Hadrian II
Boniface IX
Clement IV
Felix V
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Old Mar 7, '09, 12:05 pm
August Ambrose August Ambrose is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpp View Post
In the wall, August Ambrose asked if there were any married popes.

The answer is yes. There were 10 that were definitely married.

However, none of them married after being ordained priest, deacon or after being elevated, whichever happened first.

St. Peter
St. Siricius
St. Felix III (II)
St. Hormisdas (His son became Pope St. Silverius)
St. Silverius (Son of Pope St. Hormisdas)
St. Agatho
Hadrian II
Boniface IX
Clement IV
Felix V
Why did it stop, which pope stopped it ?
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Old Mar 7, '09, 1:39 pm
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Default Re: Married Popes

It was the Second Lateran Council in 1139 that introduced the discipline (not doctrine) of mandatory priestly celibacy in the Latin Rite Church.

A prior attempt at the Council of Nicea (325) was not accepted and the Council of Trullo (692) stated that priests could be married. At no time was it permitted for a priest who had already been ordained to marry. The marriage always had to be prior to being ordained.

However, in the time between 325 and 1139, many priests chose to remain celibate. This was true for Latin and other Eastern Rite priests.

If I am not mistaken (and I might be) no maried man could be a ordained a bishop at any time in the Church history. How to explain the married Popes other than St. Peter? Perhaps they were priests when they were elected to Pope, I do not know.
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Old Mar 7, '09, 5:28 pm
August Ambrose August Ambrose is offline
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thank you, very interesting.so for the ordained and subsently married priest of today, returning to the ministry as priest is impossible, or should be.
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Old Mar 9, '09, 11:30 pm
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Default Re: Married Popes

It's a little odd, though, that neither the Catholic nor Orthodox church allow married bishops, despite support of same in Paul's epistle.

Not that the Church did not have authority to restrict such -- that's not what I am saying. Just that while married priests were/are, married bishops weren't/aren't. Not disagreeing, just saying it seems odd (for lack of a better word).
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Old Mar 14, '09, 8:30 pm
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Post Re: Married Popes

Quote:
Originally Posted by rpp View Post
If I am not mistaken (and I might be) no maried man could be a ordained a bishop at any time in the Church history.
"at any time in the Church history" is incorrect.

Episcopal celibacy is a very ancient norm, but it doesn't go back all the way to the first century.

As for priestly celibacy, it was (as you said) a much later development.
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Old Mar 15, '09, 6:43 pm
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Default Re: Married Popes

There is a good article on Celibacy of the Clergy in the Catholic Encyclopedia:

http://oce.catholic.com/index.php?ti..._of_the_Clergy
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Old Mar 20, '09, 1:49 pm
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Default Re: Married Popes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghoti View Post
It's a little odd, though, that neither the Catholic nor Orthodox church allow married bishops, despite support of same in Paul's epistle.

Not that the Church did not have authority to restrict such -- that's not what I am saying. Just that while married priests were/are, married bishops weren't/aren't. Not disagreeing, just saying it seems odd (for lack of a better word).
I agree. How does one reconcile the discipline of no married bishops with what Paul says here:

1 Timothy 3:2 RSV Now a bishop must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, sensible, dignified, hospitable, an apt teacher,

I must be missing something here.
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Old Mar 20, '09, 4:53 pm
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Originally Posted by Holly3278 View Post
I agree. How does one reconcile the discipline of no married bishops with what Paul says here:

1 Timothy 3:2 RSV Now a bishop must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, sensible, dignified, hospitable, an apt teacher,

I must be missing something here.
The living Catholic uses tradition to express its growth. Things of the p[ast that are not dogma can grow and change with the culture of our church
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Old Mar 20, '09, 6:07 pm
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Default Re: Married Popes

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The living Catholic uses tradition to express its growth. Things of the p[ast that are not dogma can grow and change with the culture of our church
I knew that but I must have forgotten about that. Ooops.
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Old Mar 22, '09, 12:21 pm
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Default Re: Married Popes

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The living Catholic uses tradition to express its growth. Things of the past that are not dogma can grow and change with the culture of our church.
Sure. But is the Church's opposition to episcopal marriage disciplinary (like priestly marriage) or dogmatic?
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Old Mar 22, '09, 1:14 pm
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Default Re: Married Popes

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Sure. But is the Church's opposition to episcopal marriage disciplinary (like priestly marriage) or dogmatic?
I know of no dogma proclaimed on it, but we do know that some were married and St. Paul proclaimed his right to be married. I think this would make it a disciplinary matter.
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Old Mar 22, '09, 3:53 pm
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Post Re: Married Popes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holly3278 View Post
I agree. How does one reconcile the discipline of no married bishops with what Paul says here:

1 Timothy 3:2 RSV Now a bishop must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, sensible, dignified, hospitable, an apt teacher,
Surely he meant that in the sense of the husband of at most one wife. Not precluding celibate bishops (St. Paul himself was celibate) but just not allowing widowed bishops to remarry.
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Old Mar 22, '09, 6:39 pm
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Default Re: Married Popes

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Originally Posted by Peter J View Post
Surely he meant that in the sense of the husband of at most one wife. Not precluding celibate bishops (St. Paul himself was celibate) but just not allowing widowed bishops to remarry.
Ah ok. That makes a lot of sense. Thank you!

For a Catholic convert from the Southern Baptist faith, I sure don't know enough about the Bible.
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Old Mar 22, '09, 8:47 pm
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Originally Posted by Ghoti View Post
Sure. But is the Church's opposition to episcopal marriage disciplinary (like priestly marriage) or dogmatic?
Totally up to the Holy Father and the College of Cardinals, Curia, they follow the traditional teachings of the Catholic Church, but if they wish they can make any changes that doesn't affect the Dogma of the Catholic Church. On married priests or ordained women, I don't see any changes soon.
As a married man, I suggest that our priest stay celebrate, and male
 

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