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  #1  
Old Mar 10, '09, 7:57 pm
Charlemagne II Charlemagne II is offline
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Default Does Science Support Atheism?

It is often asked whether modern science supports religion. I'd like to know just the opposite:

Does science supports atheism? If so, on what basis?
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  #2  
Old Mar 10, '09, 8:18 pm
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centurionguard centurionguard is offline
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Default Re: Does Science Support Atheism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlemagne II View Post
It is often asked whether modern science supports religion. I'd like to know just the opposite:

Does science supports atheism? If so, on what basis?

I would say yes...science and atheism are like two peas in a pod trying to ("prove") that God simply does not exist. Strangely though; I have found that the vast amount of mass argumentative energies used to make their hypothetical suppositions trying to convince themselves and the world that God does not exist only proves the opposite that God in reality does exist.

Check out: http://www.arn.org/blogs/index.php/l...romote_atheism

http://atheism.about.com/od/atheisms..._Evolution.htm
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  #3  
Old Mar 10, '09, 8:24 pm
Blade and Blood Blade and Blood is offline
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Default Re: Does Science Support Atheism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlemagne II View Post
It is often asked whether modern science supports religion. I'd like to know just the opposite:

Does science supports atheism? If so, on what basis?
Atheism supports science. Science just got caught in the cross-fire. I don't think scientists want to discredit religion-- at least, not at first; scientists just wanted to find out more about our lives and our planet and beyond. Unfortunately, as science moved forward, religion was left behind out of fear.

Remember: There was a time when science was labeled as a form of witchcraft.

Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood
  #4  
Old Mar 10, '09, 8:29 pm
AndyT_81 AndyT_81 is offline
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Default Re: Does Science Support Atheism?

Good question Charlemagne. I would say that science does not support metaphysical atheism. Science embraces methodological atheism, in other words, the scientist does not invoke God to explain the outcome of experiments. This does nothing to support the proposition that "No God exists", which is a metaphysical claim. I would say science is compatible with atheism (as it is with theism), but does not support it.
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  #5  
Old Mar 10, '09, 8:39 pm
Charlemagne II Charlemagne II is offline
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Default Re: Does Science Support Atheism?

Yes, the percent of scientists who are atheists is, I believe, much higher than the percent of atheists in the population at large.

I'd like to clarify my opening question a little.

Are there any ways that the different scientific disciplines imply, or even offer, direct evidence against the existence of God?
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  #6  
Old Mar 10, '09, 8:52 pm
Luke65 Luke65 is offline
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Default Re: Does Science Support Atheism?

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Originally Posted by AndyT_81 View Post
Science embraces methodological atheism...
Actually, mainstream scientists have chosen to embrace methodological atheism. They rule out the truth before they even look at the evidence - which is why everything they know is wrong. You mess with the bull you get the horns! And they'll find that out soon enough...
  #7  
Old Mar 10, '09, 9:59 pm
JDaniel JDaniel is offline
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Default Re: Does Science Support Atheism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyT_81 View Post
Good question Charlemagne. I would say that science does not support metaphysical atheism. Science embraces methodological atheism, in other words, the scientist does not invoke God to explain the outcome of experiments. This does nothing to support the proposition that "No God exists", which is a metaphysical claim. I would say science is compatible with atheism (as it is with theism), but does not support it.
AndyT_81;

Welcome to CAF. Also, very good observation.


jd
  #8  
Old Mar 10, '09, 10:08 pm
maslibertad maslibertad is offline
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Default Re: Does Science Support Atheism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyT_81 View Post
Good question Charlemagne. I would say that science does not support metaphysical atheism. Science embraces methodological atheism, in other words, the scientist does not invoke God to explain the outcome of experiments. This does nothing to support the proposition that "No God exists", which is a metaphysical claim. I would say science is compatible with atheism (as it is with theism), but does not support it.
i think that it depends on the scientist and how they are using their science. They can either invoke God or not, the only difference is that by invoking God and doing things for God they are searching for the truth. Atheist on the other hand do not invoke God and instead they look for the outcome that pleases themselves. As a non scientist I see this as part of the reason that science seems to be in trouble. Of course I am sure that any scientists out there probably have a better idea of how to answer this question....
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  #9  
Old Mar 10, '09, 10:38 pm
JDaniel JDaniel is offline
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Default Re: Does Science Support Atheism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlemagne II View Post
Yes, the percent of scientists who are atheists is, I believe, much higher than the percent of atheists in the population at large.

I'd like to clarify my opening question a little.

Are there any ways that the different scientific disciplines imply, or even offer, direct evidence against the existence of God?
As the warden said to Paul Newman, in Cool Hand Luke, "What we have here is failure to communicate." The language of science is a language designed for communication of scientific data and the "description of structural regularities", as Ludwig Wittgenstein once said. The language of science makes the description of almost everything that is meta-science impossible to describe in its native form. It is a foreign language where religion is concerned.

Of course, most of scientific literature is consists of abysmally poor (English), but, strikingly concise juxtapositioning of words and phrases. Things that should not be so hard to read and understand become extraordinarily difficult. The next time you read a science article, really take a good look at how it uses the language to less than sublimely subject the reader to a coercive bias. Scientists have had to learn the art of self-enriching-tech-talk, or lose their paychecks, not to mention that you rarely hear anything at all from religious scientists.

Why don't you hear from religious scientists? Because it would lead to the downfall of their standing in the science community. While a few have risked it, the adamantly secular wing of science has put the fear of death into the religious scientist. Outing the religious scientist is like what Cuban children, during the 60's and 70's, did to their parents. They were "turned in" by their own children for any talk overheard that sounded even the least anti-Castro.

Science has no choice, if scientists want to keep on earning money. For the religious, this may be a losing battle for a long time.


jd
  #10  
Old Mar 10, '09, 10:59 pm
AndyT_81 AndyT_81 is offline
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Default Re: Does Science Support Atheism?

Thanks for the welcom jd

Hi maslibertad,

Quote:
i think that it depends on the scientist and how they are using their science. They can either invoke God or not, the only difference is that by invoking God and doing things for God they are searching for the truth. Atheist on the other hand do not invoke God and instead they look for the outcome that pleases themselves. As a non scientist I see this as part of the reason that science seems to be in trouble. Of course I am sure that any scientists out there probably have a better idea of how to answer this question....
Scientists can use the results of their experiments to support belief in God, but they can't use God as a hypothesis in any consistent way to describe their results (well most of them anyway). The reason for this is that God is a person who certainly does not respond to experiments in a deterministic way that can undergo the statistical rigour that most science requires. In saying this, I think that God should be the prevalent "hypothesis" (I don't really like using that word when referring to God) with regards to certain cosmological data (i.e. fine tuning) and the like.
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  #11  
Old Mar 11, '09, 7:13 am
Charlemagne II Charlemagne II is offline
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Default Re: Does Science Support Atheism?

You would think that if the percent of atheists among scientists is higher than the percent among the population at large, and if there were any scientific evidence for atheism, it would have been trotted out by now. In fact, we get no such reaction. Even Einstein repudiates the idea as follows:

ďIím not an atheist, and I donít think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the language in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesnít know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws. Our limited minds grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations.Ē Albert Einstein in Max Jammerís Einstein and Religion."
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  #12  
Old Mar 11, '09, 7:20 am
Charlemagne II Charlemagne II is offline
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Default Re: Does Science Support Atheism?

Blade and Blood

Remember: There was a time when science was labeled as a form of witchcraft.

Yes, and now it's many atheist scientists who think of religion as witchcraft, as was noted above by another poster.
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  #13  
Old Mar 11, '09, 9:30 am
Charlemagne II Charlemagne II is offline
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Default Re: Does Science Support Atheism?

I don't think many atheists are weighing in on this. And isn't that interesting?
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  #14  
Old Mar 11, '09, 11:30 am
crowonsnow crowonsnow is offline
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Default Re: Does Science Support Atheism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlemagne II View Post
I don't think many atheists are weighing in on this.
The meat and potatoes of Christianity is to believe alleged events called miracles, purported stories that defy predictable, reproducible, understandable behavior.

Science on the other hand relies on observation and then makes predictions, performs experiments, collects data, makes new predictions, performs more experiments, collects more data, etc.

So at their cores, yes they are opposites.
  #15  
Old Mar 11, '09, 1:15 pm
Charlemagne II Charlemagne II is offline
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Default Re: Does Science Support Atheism?

crowonsnow

What I hear you saying is that religion is stupid and science is brilliant.

That's not much of a comment on the question posed in this thread.

"That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws. Our limited minds grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations.Ē Albert Einstein
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