Peter Kreeft on being dogmatic

[Jim]

I've been listening to a lot of Peter Kreeft talks lately and find his lectures fascinating. One thing I can't seem to understand though is that he says if one is a skeptic or dogmatic, he cannot be a philosopher. Yet our (and Dr. Kreeft's) Catholic faith is one of dogmas. How does this reconcile?

Thanks to any help you can give to this novice of philosophy

-Jim

[Katholish]

I am guessing what he means by dogmatic is essentially "closed-mindedness". I am sure he is not trying to give Catholic dogma a negative connotation. There are people who accept Catholic dogma on the basis of reason, and I suppose there are those will will believe things that seem unreasonable simply on a basis of authority (but not the kind of logical reliance on authority such as faith).

For instance, I could say x is y because St. Augustine said so, and then entirely close myself off to further arguments or understanding. If I did that, I would not be a true philosopher, because I would not be pursuing wisdom.

There are also those (this is not particularly a Catholic problem though) who think that faith and reason can be contradictory and that faith needs to be accepted and reason denied. Such a person could not be a philosopher either because they deny the validity of reason. Catholics believe that faith has a priority, but that faith and reason can never truly contradict each other.

[davidv]

Originally Posted by Jim

I've been listening to a lot of Peter Kreeft talks lately and find his lectures fascinating. One thing I can't seem to understand though is that he says if one is a skeptic or dogmatic, he cannot be a philosopher. Yet our (and Dr. Kreeft's) Catholic faith is one of dogmas. How does this reconcile?

Thanks to any help you can give to this novice of philosophy

-Jim

For one thing Catholic faith is not one of dogma. Catholic faith is a faith in God and the person of Jesus Christ who established a Church that He promised would be guided by the Holy Spirit. That our Church has defined dogmas is, to me, evidence of the work of the Holy Spirit. Dogmas point out the truth that is needed to guide on our way to heaven.

[Oreoracle]

Originally Posted by davidv

For one thing Catholic faith is not one of dogma. Catholic faith is a faith in God and the person of Jesus Christ who established a Church that He promised would be guided by the Holy Spirit. That our Church has defined dogmas is, to me, evidence of the work of the Holy Spirit. Dogmas point out the truth that is needed to guide on our way to heaven.

Here is a definition of faith: "belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence."

Such belief requires dogmatic direction, and "dogma" is defined as : "a doctrine or a corpus of doctrines relating to matters such as morality and faith, set forth in an authoritative manner by a church."

Catholicism is dogma, as are all religions, by definition (otherwise, they'd be considered products of science).

[fhansen]

Originally Posted by Oreoracle

Here is a definition of faith: "belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence."

Such belief requires dogmatic direction, and "dogma" is defined as : "a doctrine or a corpus of doctrines relating to matters such as morality and faith, set forth in an authoritative manner by a church."

Catholicism is dogma, as are all religions, by definition (otherwise, they'd be considered products of science).

Isn’t there a difference depending on how we use the word “faith”? If by faith we mean “the faith”, which is essentially Catholicism for us, then we mean a corpus of doctrines. But if by faith we mean the experience of the gift which allows us to believe in those doctrines, that would be a different usage, I believe.

[Gottle of Geer]

Originally Posted by Jim

I've been listening to a lot of Peter Kreeft talks lately and find his lectures fascinating. One thing I can't seem to understand though is that he says if one is a skeptic or dogmatic, he cannot be a philosopher. Yet our (and Dr. Kreeft's) Catholic faith is one of dogmas. How does this reconcile?

Thanks to any help you can give to this novice of philosophy

-Jim

## How does a sceptical POV prevent one's being a philosopher ?

[JDaniel]

Originally Posted by Oreoracle

Here is a definition of faith: "belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence."

Such belief requires dogmatic direction, and "dogma" is defined as : "a doctrine or a corpus of doctrines relating to matters such as morality and faith, set forth in an authoritative manner by a church."

Catholicism is dogma, as are all religions, by definition (otherwise, they'd be considered products of science).

Yo! Oreoracle:

There are actually several definitions for the adjectival form of the word:

From Dictionary.com
dogmatic – adjective
1. of, pertaining to, or of the nature of a dogma or dogmas; doctrinal.
2. asserting opinions in a doctrinaire or arrogant manner; opinionated.

I think the word is being used according to the second definition.


jd

[JDaniel]

Originally Posted by Oreoracle

Here is a definition of faith: "belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence."

Such belief requires dogmatic direction, and "dogma" is defined as : "a doctrine or a corpus of doctrines relating to matters such as morality and faith, set forth in an authoritative manner by a church."

Catholicism is dogma, as are all religions, by definition (otherwise, they'd be considered products of science).

Also, Oreo, here are the definitions listed for "faith":

–noun
1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3. belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5. a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
6. the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.: Failure to appear would be breaking faith.
7. the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.: He was the only one who proved his faith during our recent troubles.
8. Christian Theology. the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved.


jd

[Oreoracle]

Hey JDaniel,

Of course, you're right. If we use other definitions, the conclusion would be something else entirely. I just meant that religions could be perceived as dogmatic according to some definitions.