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  #1  
Old Mar 23, '09, 2:58 am
Ben Masada Ben Masada is offline
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Default The Mark of the Beast

The Mark of the Beast

Christians, especially Protestants, and among them, the Seventh-Day Adventists in particular, enjoy to talk about the mark of the Beast; and with fantastic definitions, that only make a ridiculous picture of themselves. Then, they charge each other with the potential to get the mark of the Beast. They think of almost everything but the real thing, which is given by the NT itself.

The mark of the Beast appears in conjunction with the Antichrist. Morphologically, the term Antichrist is composed of two words: Anti and Christ. Anti means to stand against
or to contradict. Christ means what Christians believe Jesus was. So, what stands
against Christ is only obvious that it means the Antichrist.

According to Matthew 5:17, Jesus declared that he had not come to abolish the Jewish laws. Then, 30 years later, Paul came and said that what Jesus said was not true, but rather that the Jewish laws were abolished on the cross. (Ephe. 2:15)

As we can see, Paul stood against what Jesus said by contradicting his words about his purpose regarding the Jewish laws. If Jesus was indeed Christ, as Christians believe he was, it's only obvious that Paul acted as the Antichrist.

Now, where did Paul say the Jewish laws were abolished? On the cross. And what did the cross mean to him? "God forbid," he said, "that I should glory in anything save in the cross." The cross meant the glory of Paul. (Gal. 6:14)

Now, we have the mark of the Beast: The cross, a symbol of shame and a curse to the Anointed of the Lord, who, in the words of Habakkuk 3:13, is the People of Israel, the Jewish People.

Now, your comments are welcome.

Ben.
  #2  
Old Mar 23, '09, 4:59 am
PeteVZ PeteVZ is offline
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Default Re: The Mark of the Beast

While you offer an interesting theory, the primary problem with it is the timing. The antichrist will not come until just before the end of temporal existance. Before that happens, the majority of Jews will return to the salvation offered to them by God that they did not accept 2000 years ago. Then Jesus will return to strike down the Antichrist and the world will end. Since Jesus didn't strike down Paul, and the world hasn't ended yet, we can be certain that Paul wasn't the Antichrist.

Secondly, Paul didn't say that Jewish law was abolished with the Cross. He said it was fulfilled. Jewish law existed to point toward Christ. When His death and resurrection freed us from our sins, the Jewish law was no longer necessary, but was still valid. In other words, it is not wrong to follow the law, as long as it is for Christ. If you follow Christ in the spirit of the law, the minutia is not as important.
  #3  
Old Mar 23, '09, 5:27 am
cthulhubryan cthulhubryan is offline
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Default Re: The Mark of the Beast

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Masada View Post
The Mark of the Beast

Christians, especially Protestants, and among them, the Seventh-Day Adventists in particular, enjoy to talk about the mark of the Beast; and with fantastic definitions, that only make a ridiculous picture of themselves. Then, they charge each other with the potential to get the mark of the Beast. They think of almost everything but the real thing, which is given by the NT itself.

The mark of the Beast appears in conjunction with the Antichrist. Morphologically, the term Antichrist is composed of two words: Anti and Christ. Anti means to stand against
or to contradict. Christ means what Christians believe Jesus was. So, what stands
against Christ is only obvious that it means the Antichrist.

According to Matthew 5:17, Jesus declared that he had not come to abolish the Jewish laws. Then, 30 years later, Paul came and said that what Jesus said was not true, but rather that the Jewish laws were abolished on the cross. (Ephe. 2:15)

As we can see, Paul stood against what Jesus said by contradicting his words about his purpose regarding the Jewish laws. If Jesus was indeed Christ, as Christians believe he was, it's only obvious that Paul acted as the Antichrist.

Now, where did Paul say the Jewish laws were abolished? On the cross. And what did the cross mean to him? "God forbid," he said, "that I should glory in anything save in the cross." The cross meant the glory of Paul. (Gal. 6:14)

Now, we have the mark of the Beast: The cross, a symbol of shame and a curse to the Anointed of the Lord, who, in the words of Habakkuk 3:13, is the People of Israel, the Jewish People.

Now, your comments are welcome.

Ben.
One must be very careful using Fundamentalist interpretations of the bible. Paul, by declaring that Jewish laws were abolished in the body of Christ, was declaring that Jesus was the savior of mankind and that Gentiles did not have to become Jews in order to become Christians.
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  #4  
Old Mar 23, '09, 5:58 am
deb1 deb1 is offline
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Default Re: The Mark of the Beast

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Masada View Post
Now, where did Paul say the Jewish laws were abolished? On the cross. And what did the cross mean to him? "God forbid," he said, "that I should glory in anything save in the cross." The cross meant the glory of Paul. (Gal. 6:14)

.

Ben.
Hello Ben!

Paul was being humble and saying that he should not glory in anything but the fact that Jesus died for us. I do not see how that is glorifying himself.

As far as the end of the world, Catholics' don't seem as focused about the end of the world as some Protestant denominations.
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  #5  
Old Mar 23, '09, 6:19 am
GKC GKC is offline
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Default Re: The Mark of the Beast

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Masada View Post
The Mark of the Beast

Christians, especially Protestants, and among them, the Seventh-Day Adventists in particular, enjoy to talk about the mark of the Beast; and with fantastic definitions, that only make a ridiculous picture of themselves. Then, they charge each other with the potential to get the mark of the Beast. They think of almost everything but the real thing, which is given by the NT itself.

The mark of the Beast appears in conjunction with the Antichrist. Morphologically, the term Antichrist is composed of two words: Anti and Christ. Anti means to stand against
or to contradict. Christ means what Christians believe Jesus was. So, what stands
against Christ is only obvious that it means the Antichrist.

According to Matthew 5:17, Jesus declared that he had not come to abolish the Jewish laws. Then, 30 years later, Paul came and said that what Jesus said was not true, but rather that the Jewish laws were abolished on the cross. (Ephe. 2:15)

As we can see, Paul stood against what Jesus said by contradicting his words about his purpose regarding the Jewish laws. If Jesus was indeed Christ, as Christians believe he was, it's only obvious that Paul acted as the Antichrist.

Now, where did Paul say the Jewish laws were abolished? On the cross. And what did the cross mean to him? "God forbid," he said, "that I should glory in anything save in the cross." The cross meant the glory of Paul. (Gal. 6:14)

Now, we have the mark of the Beast: The cross, a symbol of shame and a curse to the Anointed of the Lord, who, in the words of Habakkuk 3:13, is the People of Israel, the Jewish People.

Now, your comments are welcome.

Ben.

Once upon a time, long, long ago, I did a lengthy exchange with a fundamentalist ninny, whose thesis was roughly the same thing, though he made it specifically the sign of the cross, as in crossing ones self. He tried to use some Latin etymology (ineptly), some Church doctrine, and the worse use of a dictionary I have ever seen in public. Plus a tiny bit of silly exegesis. It was a disaster.

No, I'm not going to do it again, but it's gratifying to recall those days. Thank you for reminding me.

GKC
  #6  
Old Mar 23, '09, 6:30 am
Auriel Auriel is offline
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Default Re: The Mark of the Beast

Interesting thought, but does not fit.

Revelation 13:16-18

16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads,

17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.


What I think is cool is that 666 really is the number of man. We are carbon based. Carbon consists of 6 protons, 6 neutrons and 6 electrons.
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  #7  
Old Mar 23, '09, 6:35 am
Ben Masada Ben Masada is offline
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Default Re: The Mark of the Beast

Quote:
Originally Posted by GKC View Post
Once upon a time, long, long ago, I did a lengthy exchange with a fundamentalist ninny, whose thesis was roughly the same thing, though he made it specifically the sign of the cross, as in crossing ones self. He tried to use some Latin etymology (ineptly), some Church doctrine, and the worse use of a dictionary I have ever seen in public. Plus a tiny bit of silly exegesis. It was a disaster.

No, I'm not going to do it again, but it's gratifying to recall those days. Thank you for reminding me.

GKC
Well, at least I made you feel nostalgic, and perhaps younger. And maybe, you won't do it again, because you must have detected that I am not here to win Catholics away, but to claim Jesus as one of our own, which is exactly what he was: A Jew and not a Christian.

Ben:
  #8  
Old Mar 23, '09, 6:45 am
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graceandglory graceandglory is offline
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Default Re: The Mark of the Beast

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Masada View Post
According to Matthew 5:17, Jesus declared that he had not come to abolish the Jewish laws. Then, 30 years later, Paul came and said that what Jesus said was not true, but rather that the Jewish laws were abolished on the cross. (Ephe. 2:15)

As we can see, Paul stood against what Jesus said by contradicting his words about his purpose regarding the Jewish laws. If Jesus was indeed Christ, as Christians believe he was, it's only obvious that Paul acted as the Antichrist.:
Don't have much to say except that personal theories like this are why I became Catholic. The early Church at the time knew St. Paul was pointing people to Christ, not away from Christ. Building a belief on a few scriptures, (like the SDA do), which contradict the Tradition and Magisterial teaching of the Church, which existed long before lay people like you and me had our own copies of scripture to misinterpret, only causes divisions among people.

Ben Masada,
I am interested in your Religion, and that you reside in Israel. Can you specify which type of Jew you are?
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  #9  
Old Mar 23, '09, 7:07 am
GKC GKC is offline
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Default Re: The Mark of the Beast

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Masada View Post
Well, at least I made you feel nostalgic, and perhaps younger. And maybe, you won't do it again, because you must have detected that I am not here to win Catholics away, but to claim Jesus as one of our own, which is exactly what he was: A Jew and not a Christian.

Ben:
Nostalgic is my favorite mood, these days. Ah, it was good times.

I won't do that particular subject again because your point is not what the loon I was talking to was trying to assert, back then. Which was based a great deal on the use of the Latin term "signum", some points from the ECFs (that was on my side), some church doctrine on a particular sacrament, and, as I said, as inept a use of a dictionary as you will see, this side of functional illiteracy. I mean, it wasn't even the definition that was being abused. The gentleman had no idea what the expression "w/..." meant, as "with "signum", meaning when the use included signum. Oh, it was all complicated. But It had nothing to do with what you are attempting.And, anyway, my daughter ran off with the OXFORD UNABRIDGED DICTIONARY OF LATIN. Fair enough, it was hers.

Mostly I do history, now. Some history, anyway.

Thanks again.


GKC

Last edited by GKC; Mar 23, '09 at 7:18 am.
  #10  
Old Mar 23, '09, 7:12 am
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JharekCarnelian JharekCarnelian is online now
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Default Re: The Mark of the Beast

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Masada View Post
Well, at least I made you feel nostalgic, and perhaps younger. And maybe, you won't do it again, because you must have detected that I am not here to win Catholics away, but to claim Jesus as one of our own, which is exactly what he was: A Jew and not a Christian.

Ben:
No sensible Catholic would try to argue that Christ wasn't Jewish. You are arguing from a pointless and needless stance if you are trying to convince Catholics that Christ was Jewish - we are well aware of that already.
  #11  
Old Mar 23, '09, 7:32 am
deb1 deb1 is offline
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Default Re: The Mark of the Beast

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Masada View Post
Well, at least I made you feel nostalgic, and perhaps younger. And maybe, you won't do it again, because you must have detected that I am not here to win Catholics away, but to claim Jesus as one of our own, which is exactly what he was: A Jew and not a Christian.

Ben:

Of course, Jesus was Jewish.
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Old Mar 23, '09, 7:35 am
Ben Masada Ben Masada is offline
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Default Re: The Mark of the Beast

[quote=Auriel;4978597]Interesting thought, but does not fit.
[b]
Revelation 13:16-18

Quote:
He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their forehead
"On the right hand" means with action and behaviour. And "on their forehead" with their understanding.

Quote:
and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
This means control through power. Do you remember Daniel 7:8? It's about that little horn, which sprang out of the ten horns on the head of the Beast. The beast was the Roman Empire from which head, 10 horns sprang when it broke down. Those 10 horns were the ten European nations. Then a little horn sprang out from them and torned three of the others. This little horn was Chritianity, which sprang with power over all the other ten nations of Europe, as we all know from History.

Quote:
Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.

What I think is cool is that 666 really is the number of man. We are carbon based. Carbon consists of 6 protons, 6 neutrons and 6 electrons.

I have never set asside any time to figure the number of the Beast for considering it a Christian private matter. But I strongly believe that the whole thing is too metaphorical. It could be reduced to the number of extremities of the cross, which is symbolically printed with one's hand on the forehead, heart and each side of the body, as
a confession of loyalty to Chritianity. And being the number that of a man, it only becomes more and more obvious.

Your strategy to figure the number 666 from the atomic number of carbon was very ingenious.

Ben:
  #13  
Old Mar 23, '09, 7:36 am
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Default Re: The Mark of the Beast

Proving my point further there - I bet you many Catholic kids like myself were told about Jewish traditions in school by their religous instructor and the part they played in Christ's life.
  #14  
Old Mar 23, '09, 7:39 am
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Default Re: The Mark of the Beast

[quote=Ben Masada;4978862]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auriel View Post
Interesting thought, but does not fit.
[b]
Revelation 13:16-18



"On the right hand" means with action and behaviour. And "on their forehead" with their understanding.



This means control through power. Do you remember Daniel 7:8? It's about that little horn, which sprang out of the ten horns on the head of the Beast. The beast was the Roman Empire from which head, 10 horns sprang when it broke down. Those 10 horns were the ten European nations. Then a little horn sprang out from them and torned three of the others. This little horn was Chritianity, which sprang with power over all the other ten nations of Europe, as we all know from History.




I have never set asside any time to figure the number of the Beast for considering it a Christian private matter. But I strongly believe that the whole thing is too metaphorical. It could be reduced to the number of extremities of the cross, which is symbolically printed with one's hand on the forehead, heart and each side of the body, as
a confession of loyalty to Chritianity. And being the number that of a man, it only becomes more and more obvious.

Your strategy to figure the number 666 from the atomic number of carbon was very ingenious.

Ben:
Can we hear about these ten nations of Europe - I don't think there's ever been a time in European history when there have ever been only ten nations....
  #15  
Old Mar 23, '09, 7:43 am
Ben Masada Ben Masada is offline
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Default Re: The Mark of the Beast

Quote:
Originally Posted by deb1 View Post
Of course, Jesus was Jewish.
In that case, I wonder why Christians don't make of Paul the Mohammad of Chritianity and leave Jesus as the Jew that he was, with his Fatith which was Judaism.

Ben:
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