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  #1  
Old Apr 4, '09, 11:38 am
Broobarker Broobarker is offline
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Default Can I have some examples of why the NAB's footnotes are so bad?

Anyone have any links or know any specifics offhand?
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  #2  
Old Apr 4, '09, 11:53 am
tobinatorstark tobinatorstark is offline
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Default Re: Can I have some examples of why the NAB's footnotes are so bad?

They are detrimental to Catholic Teaching, inclusive language in almost everyone of them and for the fact that not just Catholics, but Protestants translated it as well.
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  #3  
Old Apr 5, '09, 8:39 pm
Cranch Cranch is offline
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Default Re: Can I have some examples of why the NAB's footnotes are so bad?

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Originally Posted by Broobarker View Post
Anyone have any links or know any specifics offhand?
A comparison of a NAB footnote with one from the Confraternity New Testament.


Why I think this is a bad note:

http://forums.catholic.com/showpost....54&postcount=9
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  #4  
Old Apr 6, '09, 11:12 pm
diggerdomer diggerdomer is offline
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Default Re: Can I have some examples of why the NAB's footnotes are so bad?

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Originally Posted by Broobarker View Post
Anyone have any links or know any specifics offhand?
They are not bad. They are very helpful. They are compatible with mainstream Catholic theology. If you don't like them that is fine, but I don't think it would be the best use of your time to pursue invalidating them.
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  #5  
Old Apr 7, '09, 1:20 am
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Traditional Ang Traditional Ang is offline
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Default Re: Can I have some examples of why the NAB's footnotes are so bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by diggerdomer View Post
They are not bad. They are very helpful. They are compatible with mainstream Catholic theology. If you don't like them that is fine, but I don't think it would be the best use of your time to pursue invalidating them.
Diggerdommer:

I've just found the notes on my 40 year old Jerusalem Bible to be better and more helpful, and the commentary on the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible was really useful in a Bible Study course I took recently.

There's now too much evidence for Early Dating for the Gospel to continue to support the Later Dates used in the Introductions in the NAB - See the following posts for links:

Re: Help! John 6 Post #81
Re: Help! John 6 Post #82

Digger, I'm much more worried about what the The Teaching Authority of the Catholic Church has to say about something than I am about what "Mainstream Catholic Theology" thinks about something.
I was at USF in the late 1970's when the Theology Department and the Campus Ministry refused to join the SI Institute in sponsoring a Symposium celebrating the Ordinary Magisterium of the Catholic Church and when both Departments said they would BOYCOTT a Symposium celebrating Humanae Vitae before that.

Given that history and that Notre Dame sponsored the "V" Monologues, and has invited the most Pro-Abortion President in the history of our country,
one who refuses to appoint someone the Vatican can accredit as Ambassador to the Vatican, to receive an honorary Doctorate while speaking at the Commencement address of the Law School, I have to assume that dissent from the Magisterium of the Church is still within the Mainstream of Catholic Theology.

I'd rather have a commentary that gives me what the Church Fathers and the Doctors of the Church had to say on the passages I was studying, along with notes about the Texts and Translation and some historical/archeological notes.

Here's a passage from Psalm 22, often cited since the time of the Apostles as proof that Christ's Death of the Cross was foretold in Scripture:
They open their mouths against me,
lions that rend and roar.
Like water my life drains away;
all my bones grow soft.
My heart has become like wax,
it melts away within me.
As dry as a potsherd is my throat;
my tongue sticks to my palate;
You lay me in the dust of death.
Many dogs surround me;
a pack of evildoers closes in on me.
So wasted are my hands and feet that
I can count all my bones.
They stare at me and gloat;
Psalm 22:14-18 NAB
Here it is in 2 other versions...
Roaring lions tearing their prey
open their mouths wide against me.
I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted away within me.

My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me in the dust of death.

Dogs have surrounded me;
a band of evil men has encircled me,
They have pierced my hands and my feet.

I can count all my bones;
people stare and gloat over me.

Psalm 22:13-17 NIV
Here it is in another:
They open wide their mouths at me,
like a ravening and roaring lion.
I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint;
My heart is like wax,
it is melted within my breast;
My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue cleaves to my jaws;
Thou dost lay me in the dust of death.
Yea, dogs are round about me;
a company of evildoers encircle me;
They have pierced my hands and feet --
I can count all my bones --
they stare and gloat over me;
Psalm 22:13-17 RSV
Which one do you think sounds more like a Crucifixion? Which one do you think makes it more clear that Jesus is the "Lamb Slain from before the Foundation of the World"? Which do you think the Apostles and Early Church used? and, Which one do you think more accurately reflects the "Mind of the Church"?

This is just one example...

Your Brother and Servant, Michael
__________________
"I looked for a man among them who would build up the wall and stand before me in the gap on behalf of the land so I would not have to destroy it... Ezekiel 22:30 NIV
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  #6  
Old Apr 7, '09, 5:17 am
drforjc drforjc is offline
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Default Re: Can I have some examples of why the NAB's footnotes are so bad?

http://forums.catholic.com/showpost....1&postcount=18
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  #7  
Old Apr 7, '09, 8:27 am
tobinatorstark tobinatorstark is offline
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Default Re: Can I have some examples of why the NAB's footnotes are so bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by diggerdomer View Post
They are not bad. They are very helpful. They are compatible with mainstream Catholic theology. If you don't like them that is fine, but I don't think it would be the best use of your time to pursue invalidating them.
I strongly disagree with you. If there is so much controversy regarding the NAB and its footnotes especially on the religious and apologist. Take the notes of the Haydock Bible Commentary the NAB and compare them.You can't get anymore Catholic as far as notes goes than the Haydock Bible Commentary
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  #8  
Old Apr 7, '09, 9:32 pm
diggerdomer diggerdomer is offline
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Default Re: Can I have some examples of why the NAB's footnotes are so bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tobinatorstark View Post
You can't get anymore Catholic as far as notes goes than the Haydock Bible Commentary
It doesn't matter to me which you prefer, meaning, if you prefer it, great.

Are you referring to the Haydock from 1859? If so, I would disagree that a prior we can't get any more Catholic than that. Lots has happened in the Church in the last 150 years, particularly regarding Scripture scholarship (also of course the Pontifical Biblical Commission, Pius XII's landmark statements on Catholic Scripture scholarship, Vatican II's Dei Verbum, and the Catechism of the Catholic Church, to name a few). I think it would be "more Catholic" to include all those references when comparing Bible commentaries.
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  #9  
Old Apr 7, '09, 9:38 pm
diggerdomer diggerdomer is offline
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Default Re: Can I have some examples of why the NAB's footnotes are so bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traditional Ang View Post

Digger, I'm much more worried about what the The Teaching Authority of the Catholic Church has to say about something than I am about what "Mainstream Catholic Theology" thinks about something. ...
I'd rather have a commentary that gives me what the Church Fathers and the Doctors of the Church had to say on the passages I was studying, along with notes about the Texts and Translation and some historical/archeological notes.
The Magisterium of the Church incorporates and listens to theologians (not to mention, of course, that there are quite a few theologians among the Magisterium). The Church Fathers and Doctors were, likewise, the "theologians" of their time. The Church doesn't dismiss theologians, I don't think we should either.
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  #10  
Old Apr 8, '09, 2:29 am
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Traditional Ang Traditional Ang is offline
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Default Re: Can I have some examples of why the NAB's footnotes are so bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by diggerdomer View Post
The Magisterium of the Church incorporates and listens to theologians (not to mention, of course, that there are quite a few theologians among the Magisterium). The Church Fathers and Doctors were, likewise, the "theologians" of their time. The Church doesn't dismiss theologians, I don't think we should either.
Diggerdomer:

Actually, most of them weren't. Most of them were the Bishops, the Successors of the Apostles who were responsible for faithfully transmitting the Deposit of Faith and interpreting that deposit under the Influence of the Holy Spirit. Many of the Rest (such as the Desert Fathers) were Monastics who lived as Cenobites or in the Desert. Very few, such as Origen, could rightfully be called pure theologians.

Instead of looking at Haydock, which is over 110 years old, perhaps we should look at the Navarre Bible, a complete Commentary along with dual column RSV-CE & New Vulgate recently published by the Faculty of the University of Navarre. Single Volume New Testament Here, Here and Here. 7-Volume Old Testament Here, Here and Here. Or, You could look at the Ignatius Study Bible, which is based on the Ignatius Bible, available in various volumes from Ignatius Press, Amazon and elsewhere. Both are actually NEWER than the NAB, and their Commentaries are NEWER then the notes in the NAB.

Digger, you asked for examples. I've provided a rather significant one and a translation which was published at the same time as the original Notes in the NAB, DRforJC has provided one,
Tobinatorstark has provided the Haydock, and I've provided 2 MODERN Commentaries that both reflect the Magisterium.

As I'm sure you're aware, opposition to teach Humanae Vitae is only one example of situations where the modern Catholic Theological Mainstream find itself at odds with the Teaching Authority of the Church. There are more, but I don't want to spend Holy Week documenting rifts between the Church and those who are supposed to be her theologians.

Your Brother and Servant in Christ, Michael
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  #11  
Old Apr 8, '09, 2:42 am
bullfrog654 bullfrog654 is offline
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Default Re: Can I have some examples of why the NAB's footnotes are so bad?

i believe their comes a time when the justice of the church isnt strong enough nor governments stance in findings on my computer while trying to gain faith one might have to reconsider why schooling and correctness is the only approach i suspect the pillar of faith of that being an athiest.
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  #12  
Old Apr 8, '09, 12:08 pm
tobinatorstark tobinatorstark is offline
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Default Re: Can I have some examples of why the NAB's footnotes are so bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by diggerdomer View Post
It doesn't matter to me which you prefer, meaning, if you prefer it, great.

Are you referring to the Haydock from 1859? If so, I would disagree that a prior we can't get any more Catholic than that. Lots has happened in the Church in the last 150 years, particularly regarding Scripture scholarship (also of course the Pontifical Biblical Commission, Pius XII's landmark statements on Catholic Scripture scholarship, Vatican II's Dei Verbum, and the Catechism of the Catholic Church, to name a few). I think it would be "more Catholic" to include all those references when comparing Bible commentaries.
But neither of them you mentioned are Biblical Commentaries. Dei Verbum is a wonderful document, I feel that all strong minded Catholics read not only Dei Verbum or Lumen Gentium, but all Vatican II documents. I was ask to read them recently by Fr. Mitch Pacwa. The Catechism of the Catholic Church should be read by all Catholics period. The Bible is your owners manual and the Catechism is your repair manual. You need to read both before drivin' to heaven. The Catechism is a great source and uses many church documents along with my scripture passages and I would recommend reading it along with your Bible. They Haydock Bible Commentary, yes of 1859, is quite detailed and quite more in depth than other biblical commentaries. The Navarre is great too. I know with the Haydock Bible Commentary that I am not going to run into any Protestant doctrine. One cannot be so sure with some of these other works out on the market. Doesn't matter if one has a Nihil Obstat or imprimatur or not. The NAB's footnotes were written not by just Catholics, but Protestants as well and do contain Protestantism in it. I would much rather know what I am reading and who composed it before I get it. I know 100% sure that the Haydock Bible Commentary contains no Protestant doctrine with the benefit of the scripture being translated from the only err free in moral and doctrinal matters, the Vulgate. Is the Vulgate perfect?? No, but it is err free and that is good enough for me.
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  #13  
Old Apr 9, '09, 11:56 pm
Pinoy Katoliko Pinoy Katoliko is offline
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Default Re: Can I have some examples of why the NAB's footnotes are so bad?

Hello everyone!

I found this recent and revised article from Mr. Ben Douglass, former Vice-president of Catholic Apologetics International, about his thought on The New American Bible

http://www.pugiofidei.com/NAB.htm

God bless you all and have a blessed HOLY WEEK!
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  #14  
Old Apr 10, '09, 12:03 am
diggerdomer diggerdomer is offline
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Default Re: Can I have some examples of why the NAB's footnotes are so bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tobinatorstark View Post
But neither of them you mentioned are Biblical Commentaries.
Of course not! Did you really think I was citing them as Biblical Commentaries? Sorry if I gave that false impression.

Duh!

My point is that Catholic Biblical Commentaries written after the Leo XIII, the PBC, Pius XII, and Vatican II will of course incorporate, benefit from, and be guided by such Magisterial teaching. Unlike anything from the 19th century (this was also when people rode horses, before the Industrial Revolution, remember)

Anyone reading/responding to this thread...have you referrred to the:

(New) Jerome Biblical Commentary?
Harper's Biblical Commentary?
Collegeville Biblical Commentary?
Anchor Bible Commentary?

If you've never heard of or referred to any of these, I'd strongly encourage you to. They are just some examples of contemporary, mainstream, Catholic resources that the Magisterium relies on and refers to.
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  #15  
Old Apr 10, '09, 12:14 am
diggerdomer diggerdomer is offline
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Default Re: Can I have some examples of why the NAB's footnotes are so bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinoy Katoliko View Post
Hello everyone!

I found this recent and revised article from Mr. Ben Douglass, former Vice-president of Catholic Apologetics International, about his thought on The New American Bible

http://www.pugiofidei.com/NAB.htm

God bless you all and have a blessed HOLY WEEK!
Wonderful.

And how does this relate to any Church teaching, anything from the Magisterium? For example, the Catechism, Vatican II teaching, Pius XII, etc.?

If this is any more compelling or authoritative than the Magisterium, which of course has no problem with the NAB, please give us specifics.

And of course most importantly, blessed Triduum to all.,
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