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  #1  
Old Apr 4, '09, 10:35 pm
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Eucharisted Eucharisted is offline
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Default ‘Miraculous’ recovery from ‘non-survivable’ gunshot wound could beatify Pope John Paul II

Cleveland, Ohio, Apr 4, 2009 / 01:55 pm (CNA).- A man who suffered a "non-survivable" execution-style gunshot to the head during a mugging in Cleveland has had a "miraculous" recovery possibly due to the intercession of Pope John Paul II. If the late pontiff is credited for the miracle, it would lead to his beatification.

Jory Aebly, 26, suffered the gunshot would five weeks ago. Doctors at the Metro Health Medical Center declared it to be a "non-survivable" injury, ABC’s Good Morning America reports.

Hospital chaplain Fr. Art Nedeker administered Aebly with the Sacrament of the Sick, asking Pope John Paul II to pray for Jory and to protect him.

Read the rest here: http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=15606
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  #2  
Old Apr 6, '09, 1:57 pm
Constatine Constatine is offline
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Default Re: ‘Miraculous’ recovery from ‘non-survivable’ gunshot wound could beatify Pope John Paul II

How does this work exactly?

I don't mean any disrespect, I am trying to quesiton something that isn't logical, nor does it apply anywhere except within the canons of Catholicism.

I thought Christ said that ours was a God of the LIVING? JP II is dead. As he did not ascend, or was ressurected, shouldn't he be waiting in the netherworld for judgement, as the Bible (and Revelations) suggest? Or, do some have different rules applied to them?

Why didn't Pope JP II do any miracles when he was alive. if he was so filled with the Holy Spirit?

Confused in San Diego....
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  #3  
Old Apr 6, '09, 2:16 pm
Jennifer123 Jennifer123 is offline
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Default Re: ‘Miraculous’ recovery from ‘non-survivable’ gunshot wound could beatify Pope John Paul II

Romans 8:35-39
"What will separate us from the love of Christ? Will anguish, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or the sword?
As it is written: "For your sake we are being slain all the day; we are looked upon as sheep to be slaughtered."
No, in all these things we conquer overwhelmingly through him who loved us.
For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor present things, nor future things, nor powers,
nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord."


We believe that if JPII is alive in Christ on Earth, he will be united with Him in Heaven. His intercession from Heaven gives us a sign here on Earth that he is participating in the heavenly realm.
"Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful." James 5:16

We are clearly asked to pray for each other, and we are all united in the body of Christ, even past death. We believe that the prayers from the saints in Heaven would be all that much more powerful since their righteousness has been perfected. This powerful intercession from JPII would show us that indeed, his righteousness is perfected in Heaven, therefore, the Church will most likely grant that yes, JPII is a saint in Heaven.
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  #4  
Old Apr 6, '09, 3:38 pm
Neil_Anthony Neil_Anthony is offline
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Default Re: ‘Miraculous’ recovery from ‘non-survivable’ gunshot wound could beatify Pope John Paul II

Hi Constantine, and I see this is your first post, so welcome to the forums

When Jesus said "He is not God of the dead but of the living." in Mark 12, he was making an argument that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are actually alive. So in the same way JP2 is alive in heaven now (probably).

When Jesus died on the cross He went into the netherworld or Hades and released people from there into heaven.

Neil



Quote:
Originally Posted by Constatine View Post
How does this work exactly?

I don't mean any disrespect, I am trying to quesiton something that isn't logical, nor does it apply anywhere except within the canons of Catholicism.

I thought Christ said that ours was a God of the LIVING? JP II is dead. As he did not ascend, or was ressurected, shouldn't he be waiting in the netherworld for judgement, as the Bible (and Revelations) suggest? Or, do some have different rules applied to them?

Why didn't Pope JP II do any miracles when he was alive. if he was so filled with the Holy Spirit?

Confused in San Diego....
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  #5  
Old Apr 6, '09, 4:23 pm
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Muzhik Muzhik is offline
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Default Re: ‘Miraculous’ recovery from ‘non-survivable’ gunshot wound could beatify Pope John Paul II

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constatine View Post
How does this work exactly?

... snip ...

Why didn't Pope JP II do any miracles when he was alive. if he was so filled with the Holy Spirit?

Confused in San Diego....
Also to clarify something ... Miracles come from G_D. There may be miracles associated with some people during their lives, but they happened not because THEY willed it, but because G_D allowed it in order to help strengthen belief.

As far as miracles associated with sainthood are concerned, the only ones that are considered are ones that have happened after the person has died. The Church does not "create" saints; anyone who is in heaven is a saint. The miracles are simply the best means of confirming that the person is in fact living in heaven.

Your question reminded me of something I heard about Mother Theresa. Back in the 70's a documentary crew from England was filming some scenes about her charity and her work. They wanted to film some scenes inside the hospital, but the room was lit only by a single 60W light bulb hanging from the ceiling. So they took some film of the outside of the hospital, and then they filmed some scenes inside the hospital, knowing that the film would be underexposed but hoping for the best.

When they developed the film, all the film they took outside in the bright Indian sun was underexposed -- so dark they could barely make out the hospital. All the film they took inside the hospital, though, even though there was only the single 60W bulb, was bright and clearly lit. It was as though the spiritual darkness of the world outside the hospital was being cleared inside the hospital by the light of Christ reflected through Mother Theresa's work.
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  #6  
Old Apr 6, '09, 6:37 pm
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Rawb Rawb is offline
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Default Re: ‘Miraculous’ recovery from ‘non-survivable’ gunshot wound could beatify Pope John Paul II

Well it's not as if he doesn't have any experience with gunshots
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  #7  
Old Apr 6, '09, 7:20 pm
redrosetea redrosetea is offline
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Default Re: ‘Miraculous’ recovery from ‘non-survivable’ gunshot wound could beatify Pope John Paul II

Pope John Paul II did do miracles while he was alive..he brought down the Soviet Union, he did it without firing a shot..For the first time in decades and decades Christianity is allowed to be practiced from the old communist countries

This was something the super powers couldn't achieve without fighting a war..
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Old Apr 6, '09, 10:13 pm
Constatine Constatine is offline
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Default Re: ‘Miraculous’ recovery from ‘non-survivable’ gunshot wound could beatify Pope John Paul II

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennifer123 View Post
Romans 8:35-39
"What will separate us from the love of Christ? Will anguish, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or the sword?
As it is written: "For your sake we are being slain all the day; we are looked upon as sheep to be slaughtered."
No, in all these things we conquer overwhelmingly through him who loved us.
For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor present things, nor future things, nor powers,
nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord."


We believe that if JPII is alive in Christ on Earth, he will be united with Him in Heaven. His intercession from Heaven gives us a sign here on Earth that he is participating in the heavenly realm.
"Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful." James 5:16

We are clearly asked to pray for each other, and we are all united in the body of Christ, even past death. We believe that the prayers from the saints in Heaven would be all that much more powerful since their righteousness has been perfected. This powerful intercession from JPII would show us that indeed, his righteousness is perfected in Heaven, therefore, the Church will most likely grant that yes, JPII is a saint in Heaven.
Cool! So what you're saying, I could get my grandfather Stanley sainthood! He was a super guy. He went to church every week like a good Catholic. His house was even behind the church. His family helped with everything.

So, this is not just left for clergy, anyone can be considered a saint if multiple prayers are answered, when invoking their intercession to the Son and to the Father. I guess that this would satisfy the 2, or 3, witnesses rule...

Where does one sign up someone for this honor?
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Old Apr 7, '09, 6:50 am
Neil_Anthony Neil_Anthony is offline
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Default Re: ‘Miraculous’ recovery from ‘non-survivable’ gunshot wound could beatify Pope John Paul II

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constatine View Post
Cool! So what you're saying, I could get my grandfather Stanley sainthood! He was a super guy. He went to church every week like a good Catholic. His house was even behind the church. His family helped with everything.

So, this is not just left for clergy, anyone can be considered a saint if multiple prayers are answered, when invoking their intercession to the Son and to the Father. I guess that this would satisfy the 2, or 3, witnesses rule...

Where does one sign up someone for this honor?
Hi Constantine,
Your question sounds a bit sarcastic but I'll take it at face value anyway

Your uncle Stanly certainly could be in heaven and capable of praying for us and interceding to perform miracles.

To apply to make him a saint, you would start by talking to your bishop. But the Church only declares someone to be a saint if they had an extraordinary life and a wide following and are going to be a special example somehow. There has to be a large group of people petitioning for the person to be officially canonized.

Usually we don't know for sure if our dead relatives are in heaven or in purgatory, so instead of asking them to pray for us, we pray for them, just in case they are in purgatory and need the prayers.

Neil
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Old Apr 7, '09, 8:44 am
Constatine Constatine is offline
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Default Re: ‘Miraculous’ recovery from ‘non-survivable’ gunshot wound could beatify Pope John Paul II

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil_Anthony View Post
Hi Constantine,
Your question sounds a bit sarcastic but I'll take it at face value anyway

Your uncle Stanly certainly could be in heaven and capable of praying for us and interceding to perform miracles.

To apply to make him a saint, you would start by talking to your bishop. But the Church only declares someone to be a saint if they had an extraordinary life and a wide following and are going to be a special example somehow. There has to be a large group of people petitioning for the person to be officially canonized.

Usually we don't know for sure if our dead relatives are in heaven or in purgatory, so instead of asking them to pray for us, we pray for them, just in case they are in purgatory and need the prayers.

Neil
I've saved more than a dozen people's lives in my time, each being a miracle, by some definitions. If I believed in your canons, I would be a candidate. But, I do not live under the laws of your beliefs.

And, not only was Stanley a much better person than I, he was an avid church goer. Although he didn't have a 'following', which I didn't know was a pre-requisite of getting into Heaven, he was a pious man!

It seems to me that the confirmation of being in Heaven would preclude any question of 'following'.

By Deutoronomy, and by your own Pauline Doctrine, it would only take two, or three, witnesses for verification. So, verification of Stanley being in Heaven would be accomplished if more than three people prayed to Stanley for intercession, and those prayers were answered.

Would that not be verification that he is in Heaven, and, therefore, a candidate for Saint? Would that not preclude the 'following' clause?

BTW, the name is Constatine, Niles.
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  #11  
Old Apr 7, '09, 8:59 am
Neil_Anthony Neil_Anthony is offline
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Default Re: ‘Miraculous’ recovery from ‘non-survivable’ gunshot wound could beatify Pope John Paul II

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constatine View Post
I've saved more than a dozen people's lives in my time, each being a miracle, by some definitions. If I believed in your canons, I would be a candidate. But, I do not live under the laws of your beliefs.

And, not only was Stanley a much better person than I, he was an avid church goer. Although he didn't have a 'following', which I didn't know was a pre-requisite of getting into Heaven, he was a pious man!

It seems to me that the confirmation of being in Heaven would preclude any question of 'following'.

By Deutoronomy, and by your own Pauline Doctrine, it would only take two, or three, witnesses for verification. So, verification of Stanley being in Heaven would be accomplished if more than three people prayed to Stanley for intercession, and those prayers were answered.

Would that not be verification that he is in Heaven, and, therefore, a candidate for Saint? Would that not preclude the 'following' clause?

BTW, the name is Constatine, Niles.
Most people who are in heaven will never be declared saints, although you're right, they are saints if they're in heaven. The two miracles is one of the requirements to be declared a saint, but there are others. Typically someone has to be well-known as being a holy person to even be considered. I don't know the exact rules, sorry! I'm sure you can find the exact rules online somewhere if you want to read the details.

Sorry for spelling your name wrong, Constatine.

I know what you mean about the miracles, it seems kind of arbitrary to me too. With so many people praying for miracles to John Paul II, someone is bound to have a miraculous healing after praying to JP2 whether JP2 is in heaven or not.
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