Catholic FAQ


Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics > Social Justice
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #1  
Old Apr 5, '09, 9:00 am
selah603 selah603 is offline
New Member
Book Club Member
 
Join Date: February 10, 2009
Posts: 73
Religion: Thrilled Catholic Convert
Default Catholic vs Catholic "Extremists" ?

I do a lot of writing so I end up reading many blogs, news releases and editorials. One thing that has become blatently clear to me is that some of Catholicism's worst critics are Catholics! I read one article declaring that extremists were trying to shut down free speech in reference to the debate of ND and Obama speaking at its commencement.

This article proceded to say that those darn pro-life Catholics (that's me) are extremists and are following an antiquated religion by an "out of touch" pope.

I have been Catholic for almost 9 years now and was shocked to realize this author was a Notre Dame alum, claimed to be a good Catholic but was concerned about the extreme views held by many other Catholics.

It was like having cold water thrown in my face. This person was referring to me and almost every other Catholic I know!! In my writing, I get some pretty nasty comments from non- Catholics but just never expected it from one of my brothers or sisters.(the above example was not directed at me but to a general audience)

The question I have is this: have I been living in my post-confirmation bubble for years now or have times changed that much in 8 3/4 years?
Since when is following the teachings of the Church, including the respect for life, considered by other Catholics to be "extremist"? Are those of us who do that a minority?

This has profoundly shaken me in my spirit. Any insights or suggestions I am missing here?

Pax,
Pam
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old Apr 5, '09, 9:36 am
Deum_quaerens Deum_quaerens is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: December 15, 2008
Posts: 104
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Catholic vs Catholic "Extremists" ?

I am truly surprised that you have not stumbled upon such language before, as it is nothing new; Fr Raymond E. Brown, for instance, was wont to refer to orthodox Catholics as "ultra-right", "fundamentalist", "ultra-conservative", "right-wing vigilantes" and "extremists".
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old Apr 5, '09, 10:47 am
TarlsQtr TarlsQtr is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 1, 2007
Posts: 140
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Catholic vs Catholic "Extremists" ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by selah603 View Post
I do a lot of writing so I end up reading many blogs, news releases and editorials. One thing that has become blatently clear to me is that some of Catholicism's worst critics are Catholics! I read one article declaring that extremists were trying to shut down free speech in reference to the debate of ND and Obama speaking at its commencement.

This article proceded to say that those darn pro-life Catholics (that's me) are extremists and are following an antiquated religion by an "out of touch" pope.

I have been Catholic for almost 9 years now and was shocked to realize this author was a Notre Dame alum, claimed to be a good Catholic but was concerned about the extreme views held by many other Catholics.

It was like having cold water thrown in my face. This person was referring to me and almost every other Catholic I know!! In my writing, I get some pretty nasty comments from non- Catholics but just never expected it from one of my brothers or sisters.(the above example was not directed at me but to a general audience)

The question I have is this: have I been living in my post-confirmation bubble for years now or have times changed that much in 8 3/4 years?
Since when is following the teachings of the Church, including the respect for life, considered by other Catholics to be "extremist"? Are those of us who do that a minority?

This has profoundly shaken me in my spirit. Any insights or suggestions I am missing here?

Pax,
Pam
First, I'd say that you should definitely take it as a compliment. It is no doubt that the apostles and early church fathers were "extremists" as well. You would have to be to die for your faith as they did.

That person's actions do not jive with his claims of being a "good Catholic" (Biden and Pelosi make the same claim). It takes more than going to church on Sunday and part of this includes obeying the church and the pope. He has a major problem with that.

The truth of the matter is that he seems to be living in this world. The world has "progressed" and he obviously believes that the church should "progress" with it, even if it means throwing out eternal truths. I'll stick with the eternal truths, thank you. As the great Archbishop Fulton Sheen (let's make him a Saint already!) said: "The church is not there to be right when the world is right, it is there to be right when the world is wrong."

One more quick point. Anyone that says we are trying to stop free speech by not having Obama speak at ND is near delusion. Just as an atheist is not resisting free speech by not having the pope speak in his private home, ND would not be preventing free speech by excluding an abortion supporter from speaking at its private school and receiving an honorary degree to boot! Adding to this ridiculousness is the implication that Obama will not be getting his message out if he cannot speak at ND. I, for one, has heard his message loud and clear.
__________________
Quaerite faciem eius semper-Psalm 105:4
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old Apr 5, '09, 12:50 pm
Biggie Biggie is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: April 9, 2008
Posts: 1,542
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Catholic vs Catholic "Extremists" ?

I hear you and I understand exactly what you are expressing. The pain one feels comes in understanding that the scandal of disobedience and faithlessness within the Church effectively repels many potential converts and reverts who hoped to find truth in the Church and instead find pride, division, and personal agendas. Some of us come needy to the Church.

Some talk about "building up the Kingdom" in relationship to being in church and some hold that value of Mass to lie in community and that may well be. But I, at times, close my eyes at Mass as though retiring to a monastic cell and put aside all such thoughts.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old Apr 5, '09, 1:07 pm
selah603 selah603 is offline
New Member
Book Club Member
 
Join Date: February 10, 2009
Posts: 73
Religion: Thrilled Catholic Convert
Default Re: Catholic vs Catholic "Extremists" ?

Tarls,
Thank you for the Sheen quote. It literally hits the proverbial nail on the head. I also really like your point about an atheist inviting the pope to his home. It made me think of times when there have been protests at other university when students did not like the speaker. I don't know if I am imagining this or not but didnt Condaleeza Rice back out a speaking engagement. (maybe it was someone else from the Bush admin.) People don't seem to have a problem protesting if a conservative comes to their university..

I was thinking about this more after my first post. Remember how the Jews murmered after they were delivered from Pharoah? There seems to be a parallel here.

The news said that almost 60% of the Catholics voted for the president. I guess that statistic in itself is telling.

I have written articles about the talk regarding the closing of Catholic hospitals because of FOCA. Wow... every evil that has happened within the church was brought up... from pedophiles to the Crusades! Those people were not catholics and didn't surprise me.
It is when people claim to be Catholic and state such negative and sometimes vitrolic statements about us, that I cringe.

My audience is not necessarily Catholic so I expect some flak. I have a pretty thick skin!!
My goal for Holy Week is to try to remain out of the fray and focus my writing on the events of this week. It is going to be hard because I am very passionate about my faith as well as the things I see going on in our nation.

Peace to you,
Pam
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old Apr 5, '09, 1:09 pm
JimG JimG is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: May 23, 2004
Posts: 22,637
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Catholic vs Catholic "Extremists" ?

It seems that a "Catholic extremist" is one who takes Catholicism seriously.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old Apr 5, '09, 1:11 pm
selah603 selah603 is offline
New Member
Book Club Member
 
Join Date: February 10, 2009
Posts: 73
Religion: Thrilled Catholic Convert
Default Re: Catholic vs Catholic "Extremists" ?

Duem,
I was in a bubble for about 4 years while working full time and going to graduate school. I got away from apologetics during that time. But I am back in, sleeves rolled up and ready to go!!!

Pax,

Pam
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old Apr 5, '09, 1:23 pm
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: May 26, 2007
Posts: 20,176
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Catholic vs Catholic "Extremists" ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by selah603 View Post
I do a lot of writing so I end up reading many blogs, news releases and editorials. One thing that has become blatently clear to me is that some of Catholicism's worst critics are Catholics! I read one article declaring that extremists were trying to shut down free speech in reference to the debate of ND and Obama speaking at its commencement.

This article proceded to say that those darn pro-life Catholics (that's me) are extremists and are following an antiquated religion by an "out of touch" pope.

I have been Catholic for almost 9 years now and was shocked to realize this author was a Notre Dame alum, claimed to be a good Catholic but was concerned about the extreme views held by many other Catholics.

It was like having cold water thrown in my face. This person was referring to me and almost every other Catholic I know!! In my writing, I get some pretty nasty comments from non- Catholics but just never expected it from one of my brothers or sisters.(the above example was not directed at me but to a general audience)

The question I have is this: have I been living in my post-confirmation bubble for years now or have times changed that much in 8 3/4 years?
Since when is following the teachings of the Church, including the respect for life, considered by other Catholics to be "extremist"? Are those of us who do that a minority?

This has profoundly shaken me in my spirit. Any insights or suggestions I am missing here?

Pax,
Pam



Hi Pam,


There are too many vocal people who call themselves Catholics who do not follow many Church teachings or they are misinformed. Take Nancy Pelosi who said the Church is still not sure when life begins. And we must realize that there are wolves among us who wish to scatter the flock by bringing in destructive heresies. This has been true for the entire history of the Catholic Church. And finally, we must realize that on the internet, anyone can say they are Catholic but are actually lying and causing us to think that they are Catholic when they are not.

In the 1960s, there was no cussing and swearing on TV. Movies were still under the influence of the Catholic Legion of Decency.

But a coordinated attack was made against the Church in 1968. The Pope had issued Humanae Vitae, telling Catholics to avoid artificial birth control, including the Birth Control Pill. The integrity of the Catholic family was at stake along with the proper use of human sexuality. Even some priests and nuns were confused or even rebelled against this teaching.

The Hippies and radicals appeared and yelled freedom! Free love! Sex with anybody. I was there. A Hippie friend, raised like I was, told me: "I don't need no piece of paper to live with my old lady." He acted as if he had just left Hippie Boot Camp. The way he talked, dressed and acted was a perfect imitation of other Hippies. It was strange to see my fellow Catholics, in small numbers at first, smoking dope or trying illegal drugs or having sex with their girlfriends.

In 1973, the gift of human sexuality is given another blow. Legalized abortion. Catholics were told to have compassion on young women who would die if they sought a back alley abortion. We were told to consider the victims of rape and incest. That this law was to be used in emergencies only.

In the meantime, the same radicals were encouraging Catholics to have sex outside of marriage. To be free! Otherwise, we were called sexually reppressed.

Also, in the 1970s, the "freedom" to publish graphic images of prostitution appeared all over the country in Adult Bookstores.

Too many Catholics were being led to believe that if something was made legal then that made it OK.

The Catholic Legion of Decency closed its doors and movies became more sexualized and began adding profanity. But too many Catholics thought, Hey. That's not so bad.

By 1978. Another blow is dealt to the family. Women's Liberation told all women that they are or will be the victims of the eternal enemy -- men. "Sisters! Throw off the chains of your oppression!" Burn your bras (which were designed by men, by the way.)

And this created fear, anxiety and suspicion. Which was the perfect marketing plan for...

1980s No-fault Divorce. No kids? $75 and you're out. You need freedom! Freedom from the men who would hold you back. Who needs kids? Get a career!

Then cable is available and you have the freedom to get porn in your own home or the local motel.

TV becomes more sexualized and more dysfunctional. The evil JR Ewing, and his wife Sue Ellen, drinking liquor straight out of the bottle while driving. A perfect example of how marriage can be, even for the rich.

In the 1960s, a man would appear on TV and tell viewers that he was from the Standards and Practices Department. It was his job to ensure that everything on TV was suitable for the entire family. Already, by the 1980s, all bets were off.

1990s Into the abyss. Now that No-Fault Divorce was running at full speed and many men were paying child support, remarrying or living alone in bitterness, the next step is taken. Profanity and partial nudity on ABC. Network TV decides to take a roll in the mud. Turn on the radio and you get Shock Jocks. Freedom of speech also comes out in the form of Rap, now relabeled Hip-Hop. Aging pervert Howard Stern has porn stars (prostitutes) on his show.

Freedom of speech. Freedom of speech. Freedom of speech. At some point, strippers are relabeled Exotic Dancers.


Today, some Catholics are so far away from Church teaching that they've substituted the wisdom of the world for the Wisdom of the Church. I read an article in my local newspaper that said everyone should support embryonic stem cell research and that any objections to it were only "religious." The writer went on to say that people need to realize that embryonic stem cells do not have fingers and toes -- so, they're not real babies.

On the weekend, especially around major cities, Church parking lots are almost empty and mall parking lots are almost full.

Tell other people the truth, give them clear Church teaching, ignore or correct those who are against it. Be clear, be polite, and continue with the truth no matter what.




Peace,
Ed
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old Apr 5, '09, 2:00 pm
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: May 26, 2007
Posts: 20,176
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Catholic vs Catholic "Extremists" ?

Another point needs to be made about Catholic Universities. Too many young Catholics, 18 or older, entered Catholic Universities and thought they could once again be free, especially sexually and intellectually. That everything was on the table. Starting in the 1970s, the management, if you will, of even Catholic Universities included more and more secular people. And it has been pointed out by the Church that how can you give your students something that is authentically Catholic if you yourself do not have it to give?

http://www.catholic.org/collegiate/story.php?id=32730


Catholic Universities began to resemble secular universities more and more as the decades passed. However, in response to this, the Catholic Church, in order to live out the loving-kindness of Jesus Christ, does not act like the world. It doesn't start by kicking people out or denying them Holy Communion. It talks to them in sincere dialogue, espressing its concerns clearly and in love and compassion. It seeks to understand and to be understood.

Too many on the internet take the non-Christian "show them no mercy" approach. But Christ said that if we show mercy then we will be shown mercy.

This must be understood by all sincere Catholics who are freely obedient to Church teaching and who understand it. The Bible tells us, with wisdom get understanding. The Catholic Church knows that people want to understand what it teaches but it takes some effort on our part to get understanding. Make that effort.



Peace,
Ed
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old Apr 5, '09, 2:30 pm
selah603 selah603 is offline
New Member
Book Club Member
 
Join Date: February 10, 2009
Posts: 73
Religion: Thrilled Catholic Convert
Default Re: Catholic vs Catholic "Extremists" ?

Ed,
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. Your review of the past few decades is very well thought out..and you are right. There has been a total chinking away of morals and righteousness (and I am not talking about arrogant self-righteousness, but being right before God).

One huge prayer concern of mine is that my children have bought into the spirit of this age and have moved away from the Lord. The older two were out of the house when we converted but my youngest is Catholic, going to a well-known "Catholic" university and is very far away from the Church. I know that a lot of that is part of the "I am in college and now I am free" attitude...I certainly did it to some degree, but the best I can do is pray.

I have tried very hard to keep my articles respectful and to be a witness to the Lord's love and compassion. The other night, after reading someone else's article about the "extremists" , I wrote a full-blown rant! It actually turned out to be pretty good but it was merely therapeutical at the moment. I didn't publish and am not sure that I will.
Guess I'll have to see what comes down the pike. Like I said in the original post, I dont want to spend Holy Week with my stomach in knots, because of those who are so far away from God. It may sound selfish but I just need time with Him.
However.......... if something major would develop, I might have to respond. I'll leave all that in God's hands in the meantime

My heart is with apologetics. I want everyone to see the jewel I have found within the Catholic Church! I want to attract people, certainly not to turn them away from what Our Lord has for the world.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old Apr 5, '09, 2:34 pm
selah603 selah603 is offline
New Member
Book Club Member
 
Join Date: February 10, 2009
Posts: 73
Religion: Thrilled Catholic Convert
Default Re: Catholic vs Catholic "Extremists" ?

Quote:

Catholic Universities began to resemble secular universities more and more as the decades passed. However, in response to this, the Catholic Church, in order to live out the loving-kindness of Jesus Christ, does not act like the world. It doesn't start by kicking people out or denying them Holy Communion. It talks to them in sincere dialogue, espressing its concerns clearly and in love and compassion. It seeks to understand and to be understood.

Too many on the internet take the non-Christian "show them no mercy" approach. But Christ said that if we show mercy then we will be shown mercy.

This must be understood by all sincere Catholics who are freely obedient to Church teaching and who understand it. The Bible tells us, with wisdom get understanding. The Catholic Church knows that people want to understand what it teaches but it takes some effort on our part to get understanding. Make that effort.



Peace,
Ed
Ed,
I totally agree that we need to show compassion and love. I am not about to bash someone. That is why I didnt publish my rant! lol!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old Apr 5, '09, 2:48 pm
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: May 26, 2007
Posts: 20,176
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Catholic vs Catholic "Extremists" ?

Pam,



Thank you for your replies. It takes time, but Christ tells us we must work and in patience. The internet has taught too many to write before thinking, to be emotional first and thoughtful later.

Follow the words of Pope Benedict. One of the things paralyzing too many Catholics is indifference. Indifference to the established Word and the teaching of the Church. If we are to be the salt of the earth then we must humbly ask God for the strength, the wisdom and the courage to proclaim the truth. We should not say, like the world. What's the big deal? Or, Why should you care? About anything?

In the 'radical individualism' being marketed in our society, no one has a right to tell anyone anything, except, of course, what a small group of radicals are pushing as the current 'truth' or cause. This is called talking out of both sides of your mouth. By which I mean, some don't want to hear what we have to say but we, meaning Catholics, must not only hear what they have to say but agree with it also. They have what they believe to be a truth - a truth that they will talk, and talk and talk and talk about.

Be prepared to give a response to the hope that is in you.



Peace,
Ed
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old Apr 5, '09, 8:54 pm
mapleoak mapleoak is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2006
Posts: 2,123
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Catholic vs Catholic "Extremists" ?

As a good Catholic, you WILL be at odds with society. In fact, if we aren't being persecuted by society and those around us, we aren't living our faith as we should.
__________________
In Christ - J.M.J.
Mapleoak
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old Apr 5, '09, 8:57 pm
selah603 selah603 is offline
New Member
Book Club Member
 
Join Date: February 10, 2009
Posts: 73
Religion: Thrilled Catholic Convert
Default Re: Catholic vs Catholic "Extremists" ?

Hi Maple,

I totally understand the persecution part. Quite frankly, I believe it will continue and become worse. It just always sets me back when it comes vitrolically from other Catholics

Pax,
Pam
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old Apr 5, '09, 9:02 pm
mapleoak mapleoak is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2006
Posts: 2,123
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Catholic vs Catholic "Extremists" ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by selah603 View Post
Hi Maple,

I totally understand the persecution part. Quite frankly, I believe it will continue and become worse. It just always sets me back when it comes vitrolically from other Catholics

Pax,
Pam
Part of the problem is we are an 'infiltrated Church' as my pastor likes to call it. Throughout most of history the devil has worked to attack the Church from the outside. He is now more clever in his tactics and attacking it from within. Do not despair though, as we have Christ's assurance the the power of hell cannot prevail against it.
__________________
In Christ - J.M.J.
Mapleoak
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics > Social Justice

Bookmarks

Tags
extremist, notre dame, obama, pro-life

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
8375Meet and talk,talk talk
Last by: suko
5102CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: mountee
4417Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: daughterstm
4037OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: eschator83
3859SOLITUDE
Last by: Prairie Rose
3696Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: RJB
3269Poems and Reflections
Last by: PathWalker
3263Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: grateful_child
3218Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: memphian
3093For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: SERVENT FOR GOD



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 1:11 am.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2014, Catholic Answers.