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  #1  
Old Apr 16, '09, 4:24 pm
sherryannhatley sherryannhatley is offline
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Default Is Jehovah God's name?

Did the catholic faith delete the word Jehovah from the King James bible and if they did why?
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  #2  
Old Apr 16, '09, 4:40 pm
FCEGM FCEGM is offline
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Default Re: Is Jehovah God's name?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sherryannhatley View Post
Did the catholic faith delete the word Jehovah from the King James bible and if they did why?
Welcome to CAF.

The King James bible is not a Catholic bible and thus the Church had no say in what was or wasn't included. "Jehovah", is a mistranslation of the Hebrew Tetragrammaton "YHWH", the name meaning "I Am", as God identified Himself to Moses.

These two earlier posts on the topic will help:

http://forums.catholic.com/showpost....11&postcount=2

http://forums.catholic.com/showpost....07&postcount=4
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  #3  
Old Apr 16, '09, 4:41 pm
tobinatorstark tobinatorstark is offline
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Default Re: Is Jehovah God's name?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sherryannhatley View Post
Did the catholic faith delete the word Jehovah from the King James bible and if they did why?
No.The King James Version is not Catholic and Catholics didn't remove the word Jehovah. Jehovah is considered as an inappropriate term for Christ. YHWH is mentioned and so is ADONAI in Catholic translations. Jehovah is mentioned in Genesis 22;14 of the KJV as well as Exodus 6:3. I wouldn't even pick up a KJV and I would stick to Catholic approved Bibles like the Douay-Rheims
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  #4  
Old Apr 16, '09, 6:45 pm
yinekka yinekka is offline
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Default Re: Is Jehovah God's name?

There is nothing wrong with reading the King James Bible or the Douay Rheimes bible if the language is to your taste and if you remember that the King James Bible will be missing some of the books which are in the Catholic bible or will have those books tucked away at the back of the bible.. The Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition is considered a good modern translation. The most important thing to consider if you are looking for a bible to study is to be sure that the notes are in accord with Catholic teaching.

A good Catholic study bible is the Navarre or the Ignatius study series.
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  #5  
Old Apr 16, '09, 7:08 pm
JMJ_coder JMJ_coder is offline
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Default Re: Is Jehovah God's name?

Jehovah is a mistranslation of Yahweh. It is common for J to be used for Y from Hebrew. Jerusalem is actually (transliterated) Yerushalayim. Jesus is Y'shua -> the same for all Hebraic names that we in English begin with J: Joseph, John, Joshua, etc.


YHWH -> JHVH -> (insert vowels for pronounciation) -> Jehovah
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  #6  
Old Apr 16, '09, 7:14 pm
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NHInsider NHInsider is offline
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Default Re: Is Jehovah God's name?

1) Ancient Hebrew had no vowels. So the Name was rendered JHVH or YHWH (in Hebrew, of course, not Latin letters, so already we're into approximating sounds)
2) The Jews did not pronounce the Name of God (revealed to Moses). Whenever the Name appeared in the text, they substituted Adoni ("the Lord")
3) Both Jehovah (the older form) and Yahweh (more recent) are educated guesses as to how that Name might have been pronounced, had anyone pronounced it.
4) Following the tradition of the Jews, many translations use the phrase "Lord God" in place of the Name (as distinct from just "God" which translates "Elohim" Some use LORD (all caps).

An interesting aside - in the Old Testament when God calls Abram and Sarai and changes their names, the change is the insertion of that ending syllable from God's Name - they are "called by His Name," as are we, in a way, when we are baptized into Christ.

Rome has recently (last June) reinstituted the prohibition of the pronounciation of the Name in the liturgy:
Quote:
(from CNS)

"By directive of the Holy Father, in accord with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, this congregation ... deems it convenient to communicate to the bishops' conferences ... as regards the translation and the pronunciation, in a liturgical setting, of the divine name signified in the sacred Tetragrammaton," said the letter signed by Cardinal Francis Arinze and Archbishop Malcolm Ranjith, congregation prefect and secretary, respectively.

The Tetragrammaton is YHWH, the four consonants of the ancient Hebrew name for God.

"As an expression of the infinite greatness and majesty of God, it was held to be unpronounceable and hence was replaced during the reading of sacred Scripture by means of the use of an alternate name: 'Adonai,' which means 'Lord,'" the Vatican letter said. Similarly, Greek translations of the Bible used the word "Kyrios" and Latin scholars translated it to "Dominus"; both also mean Lord.

"Avoiding pronouncing the Tetragrammaton of the name of God on the part of the church has therefore its own grounds," the letter said. "Apart from a motive of a purely philological order, there is also that of remaining faithful to the church's tradition, from the beginning, that the sacred Tetragrammaton was never pronounced in the Christian context nor translated into any of the languages into which the Bible was translated."

The two Vatican officials noted that "Liturgiam Authenticam," the congregation's 2001 document on liturgical translations, stated that "the name of almighty God expressed by the Hebrew Tetragrammaton and rendered in Latin by the word 'Dominus,' is to be rendered into any given vernacular by a word equivalent in meaning."

"Notwithstanding such a clear norm, in recent years the practice has crept in of pronouncing the God of Israel's proper name," the letter said. "The practice of vocalizing it is met with both in the reading of biblical texts taken from the Lectionary as well as in prayers and hymns, and it occurs in diverse written and spoken forms," including Yahweh, Jahweh and Yehovah.
Hope that helps
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  #7  
Old Apr 16, '09, 7:16 pm
Aner Aner is offline
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Default Re: Is Jehovah God's name?

I was a little puzzled about a couple answers -

My understanding is that Jehovah is not a translation (therefore, it cannot be a mis-translation). Rather it is about the best transliteration you can get from a written language that did not employ vowels in the original writing (Hebrew). The vowel set is general that from Adonai (Lord) but even this is not especially relevant.

The Jews stopped saying the name Jehovah at some point around 400 - 500 BC - thus the Greek OT does not employ anything like Jehovah. However, the Heb text employes this many times - therefore, I have a hunch that God likes His name - whatever nationality is speaking it.


Also what is especially interesting is the divergence in the Septuagint - in Ex 3:14 - the fact that O WN is used rather than EGO EIMI.

Best,
Aner
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  #8  
Old Apr 17, '09, 6:07 am
tobinatorstark tobinatorstark is offline
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Default Re: Is Jehovah God's name?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yinekka View Post
There is nothing wrong with reading the King James Bible or the Douay Rheimes bible if the language is to your taste and if you remember that the King James Bible will be missing some of the books which are in the Catholic bible or will have those books tucked away at the back of the bible.. The Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition is considered a good modern translation. The most important thing to consider if you are looking for a bible to study is to be sure that the notes are in accord with Catholic teaching.

A good Catholic study bible is the Navarre or the Ignatius study series.
There is nothing wrong reading the KJV if you are not Catholic. Bottom Line is that isn't Catholic and has no approval from the Catholic Church, so it is best to stick to Catholic approved Bibles. Latin Vulgate, Douay-Rheims, RSV-CE, Jerusalem Bible, New Jerusalem Bible, New American Bible and NRSV. That is why we have Imprimatur, Nihil Obstat and approvals from the Bishops Committees.
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  #9  
Old Apr 17, '09, 8:25 am
chosen people chosen people is offline
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Default Re: Is Jehovah God's name?

First the name of God, YHWH in transliteration from the English, is an amalgamation of the Hebrew verbs for "was" "is" and "will be" and signifies that God has always existed and is everlasting. The name in Judaism is not meant to be pronounced, its not a matter of vowels.
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  #10  
Old Apr 17, '09, 9:12 am
Aner Aner is offline
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Default Re: Is Jehovah God's name?

Quote:
The name in Judaism is not meant to be pronounced, its not a matter of vowels.
That may be for the last couple thousand years - but it would appear that David and the Patriarchs and Prophets pronounced it all the time.

Also, as I recall, NONE of the words in the original Heb Bible had vowels - so NONE of the words could be directly pronounced.

Best,
Aner
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  #11  
Old Apr 21, '09, 1:36 am
yinekka yinekka is offline
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Default Re: Is Jehovah God's name?

it would appear that David and the Patriarchs and Prophets pronounced it all the time.

Where did David etc pronounce the name of God?
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  #12  
Old Apr 21, '09, 8:04 am
Aner Aner is offline
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Default Re: Is Jehovah God's name?

Hi Yinekka,

It may not be so translated in your version of the Bible - but the name Jehovah (an English transliteration of YHVH which are the 4 Hebrew consonants used) is used about ten thousand times in the OT. Take the Psalms - every time you see what is probably a capitalized LORD in your version, the actual Hebrew word is YHVH. A good example is Ps 3:1 - "Jehovah, how many are my foes..."

Throughout the OT, EVERYBODY used the name Jehovah the same way the name of Jesus is used in the NT. I have always been disappointed the name of Jehovah was not used in the NT - I suppose it was out of either respect for the culture - or perhaps simply habit since that is how the authors had been brought up and they maintained that habit despite not needing to.

Does this make sense once you look at your OT?

Best,
Aner
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  #13  
Old Apr 21, '09, 9:29 am
tobinatorstark tobinatorstark is offline
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Default Re: Is Jehovah God's name?

Jehovah isn't in the Catholic Bible. At least the NAB, JB and Douay-Rheims. These are all English Bibles. ADONAI and YHWH. I have yet to see an English Catholic Bible that uses Jehovah. So how can it be spoken if it isn't in Catholic Bible
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  #14  
Old Apr 21, '09, 9:46 am
yellowbird yellowbird is offline
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Default Re: Is Jehovah God's name?

Do you think it's important to know God's name? I don't. I think it's just important to know God. My little children don't know my name, but they know I'm their Mommy...

it's the same with God. He is my Father.. that is all I need to know.

When Jesus cried out to God he said, "Abba, Father.." which is translated Daddy - or Papa. Through Jesus we too have that intimate relationship with God... I am not afraid to call on my "Papa."
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  #15  
Old Apr 21, '09, 11:01 am
mchale mchale is offline
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Default Re: Is Jehovah God's name?

I think the only thing I would add to all this is the fact that Latin probably influenced the development of Jehovah as opposed to the modern English variation of Yahweh. Latin lacked both a Y and a W, the closest letters they had were consonant versions of I and U. The problem is that both of these letters ultimately evolved into three different letters in the English Version of the Latin Alphabet; I became I, J and Y, and U became U, V (Which was of form of U often used in classical writing) and W. Thus any rendering of the Tetragram in Latin would have been IHUH... or as it was expanded to include vowels might be rendered Iehouah (or Iehovah.. depending on what sort of script they are using). Now my classical Latin pronounciation is a little rusty, but if I remember correctly, it would be pronounced kind of like a hybrid of Yahweh and Jehovah... say Yahowah... but in English the I most often became a J when it started words... hence the Jehovah.

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