Anybody out there "pro-choice"? - Page 8

royal archer · #**106** May 19, '09, 8:21 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GodIsGracious

Supporting pro-choice, doesn't mean supporting abortion. I wouldn't want to support an abortion with my money. Take public funding out of abortion. However, this would be difficult as I do support universal health care.

I'm sorry I thought you were pro "Choice" What if I choose to not participate in the "universal health care" shouldn't I have the right to choose to spend my money on my quality of life in a way I choose?

I hope you don't think parrents have the right to choose to murder their children but do not have a right to choose alternative health plans.

royal archer · #**107** May 19, '09, 8:26 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calliso

What I am saying is I donlt think at least on the issue of abortions partically early term abortions since I can;t say with 100% conviction I would never get one at such a stage. It would feel wrong for me to then say I feel any other woman shouldn;t have a choice either. Ideally though I would like there to be little to no abortions. But I donlt think making them illegal will help that.

Hey po18guy, I can't say with 100% conviction that if I ran into a baby killer in a dark ally I wouldn't, well, you know, do something that appropriate for a non-violent, person. So it looks like you and everyone else should have the green light to do what ever you want.

Calliso · #**108** May 20, '09, 4:05 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by royal archer

Following your logic: I can't say for 100% sure that I would never murder anyone does that mean I should advocate the legalization of murder? Babies are an inconvenience but so are some of my neighbors. That does not give me the right to kill them. Instead we should be working to help these people through their troubling times.

We all have urges to do the wrong thing that is why we have laws, to stop wrong doing , not to codify what we would do anyhow.

True you have a good point course I should note that isnt my only reason for being prochoice. But I donlt think I am getting what I am trying to say as well as I want to anyway but whatever we will just have to agree to disagree cause I am not changing my mind on being prochoice. I also donlt think that making abortion illegal at this time is the solution I think it would just at this time just cause more problems..and only stop some abortions.

Calliso · #**109** May 20, '09, 4:08 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by royal archer

Hey po18guy, I can't say with 100% conviction that if I ran into a baby killer in a dark ally I wouldn't, well, you know, do something that appropriate for a non-violent, person. So it looks like you and everyone else should have the green light to do what ever you want.

Well that;s not what I was trying to say..but yeah whatever think I am just going to drop that argument.

twinklers · #**110** May 20, '09, 6:40 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveGC

While I agree with the concept of "fight the battles you can win" in general, I think it's important to understand that the Catholic message needs to be clear and unambiguous. While lobbying against "late term" abortions may give way to lesser abortions overall, it also sends a message that the Catholic position puts "late term" babies ahead of "early term" babies, or that life begins at say, 6 months gestation vs. at conception. I do think you're right in a sense....that an attack on this more "winable" legal battle may be a good first step....so long as it is clear that the Catholic position is aimed at complete and total illegalization, not partial. I also agree with Eddie, in that it's not necessarily about stopping the suffering of innocents. The first and foremost issue is preserving the sanctity of life....from conception to natural death. If we try to differentiate the sanctity based on our feelings of 'who suffers most?'....then indeed, we may be letting our emotions drive our efforts as opposed to our faith.

It may be that the Catholic issue on abortions will never be readily accepted by the population as a whole. It may also be that we may need to address this issue from a human standpoint because whenever faih or religion is involved in public issues it generally ends in stalmate or war with both sides unable to compromise. It has been proven time and again that when abortions are unavailable, mostly young teenage girls find themselves in butcher shops, dying along with their babies in a state of mortal sin. Yes, abortions are awful. Birth control for those who do not have sufficient information to curtail their promiscuity, those who are addicted to drugs and other vice, those who have been discarded early in their childhoods without faith or family, will continue to find themselves pregnant with no ability or will to complete bringing a soul into their version of life.
Their are great evils and lesser evils. Any large job require a beginning. Lets start where we can make a difference. I believe that if we begin where we can, the Lord will light the pathway and that light will remain lit by our successes, each life saved has much more value than no lives saved because we refuse to start in the most obvious place available.

**po18guy** · #**111** May 20, '09, 3:07 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calliso

What I am saying is I donlt think at least on the issue of abortions partically early term abortions since I can;t say with 100% conviction I would never get one at such a stage. It would feel wrong for me to then say I feel any other woman shouldn;t have a choice either. Ideally though I would like there to be little to no abortions. But I donlt think making them illegal will help that.

I know that you were not aborted. But, should you have been? Should your mother have had the right to deny you life - once it had begun? How is that any different form murder?

**po18guy** · #**112** May 20, '09, 3:12 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by royal archer

I've heard storyies of the Klan promoting abortion in the inner cities. I wonder when the pro abortion crowd will be labled as racist.

Ah, but there is something MUCH more successful than the KKK: the "PP". Just Google "Margaret Sanger" the foundress of Planned Parenthood. See her racist and eugenic views. Why is so much of PP advertising done on Univision (Latino) and Black Entertainment Television? Why, indeed?

**po18guy** · #**113** May 20, '09, 3:18 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calliso

What I am saying is I donlt think at least on the issue of abortions partically early term abortions since I can;t say with 100% conviction I would never get one at such a stage. It would feel wrong for me to then say I feel any other woman shouldn;t have a choice either. Ideally though I would like there to be little to no abortions. But I donlt think making them illegal will help that.

Might I suggest some illuminating reading? Get a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Read sections 2270-2272 on abortion. They will give you moral direction and give the reasons for the teaching. Your current thinking is influenced by our world, and comes solely from the society in which we live. Until the last century, no Christian assembly anywhere gave any support whatsoever to abortion.

royal archer · #**114** May 20, '09, 4:23 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calliso

True you have a good point course I should note that isnt my only reason for being prochoice. But I donlt think I am getting what I am trying to say as well as I want to anyway but whatever we will just have to agree to disagree cause I am not changing my mind on being prochoice. I also donlt think that making abortion illegal at this time is the solution I think it would just at this time just cause more problems..and only stop some abortions.

Either my argument is illogical or yours is. I am willing to examine the logic of all of these arguments. I hope that you will think this through and see that you have to do what is right, even if it is not the feel good choice.

Calliso · #**115** May 20, '09, 6:29 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by po18guy

I know that you were not aborted. But, should you have been? Should your mother have had the right to deny you life - once it had begun? How is that any different form murder?

Should I have been aborted? well I can;t say I should have been..but I can;t say I shouldn;t have been either. If my mother had chosen to deny me life it would have mattered little actually nothing to me as I simply would not exist. Also as I understand it murder is a legal term a fetus is not considered a person..so it is not considered murder to kill it. Now personally I think that in the early term stages that while abortion is certainly a sad thing it is little more then killing a few cells.

Revert TSIEG · #**116** May 20, '09, 6:39 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fix

Pro choice=pro abortion. Hiding from that is futile.

If that is the case, then pro-life=pro-bombing abortion clinics... It make no logical sense. Please do not stereotype.

Revert TSIEG · #**117** May 20, '09, 6:42 pm

VVVVVV I like this saying!!! VVVVVV

Rather than the Church adding to scripture, scripture has added to the Church.

**po18guy** · #**118** May 20, '09, 7:40 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calliso

Should I have been aborted? well I can;t say I should have been..but I can;t say I shouldn;t have been either. If my mother had chosen to deny me life it would have mattered little actually nothing to me as I simply would not exist. Also as I understand it murder is a legal term a fetus is not considered a person..so it is not considered murder to kill it. Now personally I think that in the early term stages that while abortion is certainly a sad thing it is little more then killing a few cells.

If you profess to believe in an all-powerful God, then you likely agree that He is the Author of life, from which all authority flows. Since he is the One Who creates life, He is the only One to call it home. To end life outside of God's authority by murder, euthanasia (murder), abortion (murder) or suicide (self-murder), is a direct denial of God's will. Either life is sacred, or you open the door to all other interpretations of its value or lack thereof. Dangerous territory, no?

**po18guy** · #**119** May 20, '09, 7:42 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revert TSIEG

VVVVVV I like this saying!!! VVVVVV

Rather than the Church adding to scripture, scripture has added to the Church.

As a revert, it likely struck a chord with you.

MarysGirls · #**120** May 20, '09, 7:43 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calliso

Should I have been aborted? well I can;t say I should have been..but I can;t say I shouldn;t have been either. If my mother had chosen to deny me life it would have mattered little actually nothing to me as I simply would not exist. Also as I understand it murder is a legal term a fetus is not considered a person..so it is not considered murder to kill it. Now personally I think that in the early term stages that while abortion is certainly a sad thing it is little more then killing a few cells.

Again, you say that the fetus is not a baby. I've asked this before, but, since you didn't answer I'll ask again. Are you willing to open your mind and seriously consider a logical argument against your assumption that the fetus is only "a few cells"? Please answer.