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  #1  
Old May 11, '09, 11:47 am
CKNICKERBOCKER CKNICKERBOCKER is offline
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Default Can a defrocked priest remain in the faith?

I was saddened to hear the story of Fr. Alberto cutie. He has mentioned leaving the Catholic church and getting married. I don't get it. Just because he may answer a different call to marry this woman, why can't he remain a member of the Catholic faith? Just because we are disciplined in our faith doesn't necessarily mean we have to leave, right? Does defrocking automatically lead to excommunication? This reminds me of the story of the prodigal son. Despite the fact that the son left, the father still welcomed him back when he was ready.

Last edited by CKNICKERBOCKER; May 11, '09 at 11:52 am. Reason: typos
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  #2  
Old May 11, '09, 12:11 pm
bilop bilop is offline
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Default Re: Can a defrocked priest remain in the faith?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKNICKERBOCKER View Post
I was saddened to hear the story of Fr. Alberto cutie. He has mentioned leaving the Catholic church and getting married. I don't get it. Just because he may answer a different call to marry this woman, why can't he remain a member of the Catholic faith? Just because we are disciplined in our faith doesn't necessarily mean we have to leave, right? Does defrocking automatically lead to excommunication? This reminds me of the story of the prodigal son. Despite the fact that the son left, the father still welcomed him back when he was ready.
He could ask to be laicized (removed from the priestly state) and wait for Rome's response (this could take a while). He then could marry in the Church and remain a practicing Catholic. He would remain a priest, and could perform sacraments in a true emergency (i.e. confession for the dying).

If, however, he marries w/o laicization, I believe he excommunicates himself, and the marriage is invalid. Hence, he could not be a practising Catholic if in that state.

God Bless
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  #3  
Old May 11, '09, 12:38 pm
Dolphincrc Dolphincrc is offline
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Default Re: Can a defrocked priest remain in the faith?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKNICKERBOCKER View Post
This reminds me of the story of the prodigal son. Despite the fact that the son left, the father still welcomed him back when he was ready.
The Church, like the Father, is always ready to welcome back. But it takes two to reconcile. Before the part where the Father forgives the prodigal son, the son had to undergo a "conversion"- a "change of mind". Same in this case- Fr Cutie will have to undergo a similar conversion. Right now it is not looking good since he keeps speaking out against celibacy and the Church. His supporters also seem to ignore the fact that he is in an adulterous relationship, clearly spoken of against in the Bible. But I keep praying for him and all those people who are in danger of leaving the Church beacuse of him.
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  #4  
Old May 11, '09, 1:06 pm
NCSue NCSue is offline
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Default Re: Can a defrocked priest remain in the faith?

I had to post about this today, and hope you will take the time to read it. I also link to a wonderful post by a priest whose ministry is to pray on behalf of his brother priests. According to his website: "His Excellency, Bishop Edward J. Slattery of the Diocese of Tulsa, Oklahoma has given Father Mark a special mandate to live in adoration before the Eucharistic Face of Jesus, offering thanksgiving, intercession,and reparation for all his brothers in Holy Orders." I wasn't aware that there was such a ministry, but I hope you will join with him - and with me. Please pray for our priests!

http://acts17verse28.blogspot.com/20...nation-or.html

In His love,
NCSue
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  #5  
Old May 11, '09, 1:38 pm
CKNICKERBOCKER CKNICKERBOCKER is offline
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Default Re: Can a defrocked priest remain in the faith?

Yes with adultery, it's unfortunate to feel remorse because you were caught. It sounds like it was such a struggle that i question his discernment process when he became a priest. You see inappropriate behavior early on in couples who should have never gotten married, as well. He does need prayer. I will pray for him.
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  #6  
Old May 11, '09, 2:12 pm
Island Oak Island Oak is offline
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Default Re: Can a defrocked priest remain in the faith?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bilop View Post
He could ask to be laicized (removed from the priestly state) and wait for Rome's response (this could take a while). He then could marry in the Church and remain a practicing Catholic. He would remain a priest, and could perform sacraments in a true emergency (i.e. confession for the dying).

If, however, he marries w/o laicization, I believe he excommunicates himself, and the marriage is invalid. Hence, he could not be a practising Catholic if in that state.

God Bless
???I thought once a priest, always a priest??? Just like one can't be "un-baptized," one can't undo the priesthood? Can anyone explain?!
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  #7  
Old May 11, '09, 2:24 pm
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msugeotech msugeotech is offline
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Default Re: Can a defrocked priest remain in the faith?

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__PZ.HTM
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  #8  
Old May 11, '09, 2:36 pm
Island Oak Island Oak is offline
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Default Re: Can a defrocked priest remain in the faith?

Thanks...but note 1 & 2 of Can. 290 are identical...is that an error, my misread?

In effect, it appears defrocking a priest is akin to annuling a marriage~declaring the ordination invalid from the start...
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  #9  
Old May 11, '09, 2:47 pm
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Mary Gail 36 Mary Gail 36 is offline
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Default Re: Can a defrocked priest remain in the faith?

As I understand, a priest is a priest forever. Being laicized means he cannot say mass, perform the sacraments, or conduct himself as a priest in anyway. Sometimes it is penalty, sometimes it is requested like when a priest wants to marry. But in his heart and soul, still a priest.
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  #10  
Old May 11, '09, 3:14 pm
DanteAlighieri DanteAlighieri is offline
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Default Re: Can a defrocked priest remain in the faith?

Interesting to note what Can. 291 says:

Quote:
Can. 291 Apart from the case mentioned in ⇒ can. 290, n. 1, loss of the clerical state does not entail a dispensation from the obligation of celibacy, which only the Roman Pontiff grants.
In other words, unless a priest's ordination is declared invalid, he is still bound by the law to be celibate even if he is laicized or is booted from the priesthood.

Peace,
Dante
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  #11  
Old May 12, '09, 7:02 am
bilop bilop is offline
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Default Re: Can a defrocked priest remain in the faith?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Oak View Post
???I thought once a priest, always a priest??? Just like one can't be "un-baptized," one can't undo the priesthood? Can anyone explain?!
He is still a priest, he just has his faculties removed (can no longer perform sacraments except in extremis) and is allowed to live as a layman.

God Bless
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  #12  
Old May 12, '09, 7:02 am
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Cool Re: Can a defrocked priest remain in the faith?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Oak View Post
Thanks...but note 1 & 2 of Can. 290 are identical...is that an error, my misread?

In effect, it appears defrocking a priest is akin to annuling a marriage~declaring the ordination invalid from the start...
It would not be the first typographical/scanning error in the Vatican text. IntraText (Canon Law Society of England translation, I think) says for 2:
2° by the penalty of dismissal lawfully imposed;
Which matches the Vatican's Latin:
poena dimissionis legitime irrogata;
tee
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  #13  
Old May 12, '09, 7:03 am
bilop bilop is offline
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Default Re: Can a defrocked priest remain in the faith?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanteAlighieri View Post
Interesting to note what Can. 291 says:



In other words, unless a priest's ordination is declared invalid, he is still bound by the law to be celibate even if he is laicized or is booted from the priesthood.

Peace,
Dante
Correct, but in the case of voluntary laicization (i.e. the priest asks for it, and waits for Rome's approval) he is usually dispensed from his promise of celebacy.

If a priest is defrocked (involuntarily laicized), I would imagine he is usually not dispensed.

God Bless
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  #14  
Old May 12, '09, 8:03 am
DanteAlighieri DanteAlighieri is offline
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Default Re: Can a defrocked priest remain in the faith?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bilop View Post
Correct, but in the case of voluntary laicization (i.e. the priest asks for it, and waits for Rome's approval) he is usually dispensed from his promise of celebacy.

If a priest is defrocked (involuntarily laicized), I would imagine he is usually not dispensed.

God Bless
That's not the impression I get. It sounds to me like marriage, in a sense: if it was valid to begin with, it cannot be undone. If it was invalid from the beginning, there is nothing to be undone.

Thus, if a priest's clerical status is removed for any reason, he is only deactiviated -- not released from his vows. The obligation to celibacy appears to remain nonetheless unless the ordination was invalid.

The wording seems quite clear, though I could be mistaken, given that I'm no canon lawyer.

Peace,
Dante
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  #15  
Old May 12, '09, 8:20 am
rinnie rinnie is offline
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Default Re: Can a defrocked priest remain in the faith?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanteAlighieri View Post
That's not the impression I get. It sounds to me like marriage, in a sense: if it was valid to begin with, it cannot be undone. If it was invalid from the beginning, there is nothing to be undone.

Thus, if a priest's clerical status is removed for any reason, he is only deactiviated -- not released from his vows. The obligation to celibacy appears to remain nonetheless unless the ordination was invalid.

The wording seems quite clear, though I could be mistaken, given that I'm no canon lawyer.

Peace,
Dante
The way I understand it when he became a ordained Priest it was valid. Even if he leaves the Priesthood his prior works as a Priest are still valid. Because at that time he was in a state if Grace. If he chooses to leave the Priesthood and goes through the Pope he is released from those vows. Then he cannot marry or do any works of the Church unless in extreme emergency. I also could be wrong, but thats how I understand it.

The difference would be in a marriage and annulment that marriage we never considered valid, or existant. But in Holy Orders that would still have been in effect at the time.
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