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  #46  
Old May 22, '09, 6:48 am
tobinatorstark tobinatorstark is offline
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Default Re: Why can't Fr. Jenkins be fired?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoobyshme View Post
Will someone please explain to me why Fr. Jenkins cannot be fired? What authority does the Church have over this former Catholic university, anyway? Can't we remove their Catholic charter or something, if they don't remove him? Can't we just clean house? I mean, really! It's time to stop procrastinating and trying to be "nice guys." We need to make an example of this clown, and we need to do it sooner rather than later. There needs to be a strong connection in the mind of folks similar to Jenkins that if you conduct yourself like this, you get slapped down...hard.
The board of directors are lay people so they would be the one to fire him if he were to be fired. I honestly think Fr. Jenkins needs excommunicated.
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  #47  
Old May 22, '09, 6:52 am
tm30 tm30 is offline
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Default Re: Why can't Fr. Jenkins be fired?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EeyoresButerfly View Post
Why all the hate for Obama and the Democratic party?

Let's be realistic, neither party is consistent with our views.
No one is arguing that they are. The only people introducing politics into the debate are those who supported Jenkins, because it's a convenient deflection of the substance of the issue. Those who supported Jenkins/Obama have done absolutely nothing to address abortion in this discussion because it simply can't be defended. So the next best thing is to change the subject by insinuating we're all members of the John Birch Society conspiring to embarrass Obama, just because we can.

Quote:
Pro-life is pro all life.
Cockroaches too?

Quote:
Bush and his cronies entered the US into an unjust war which has cost many people, civilians and soldiers alike to lose their lives.
History will judge accordingly. What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

Quote:
The party also heavily supports the death penalty which is also against our teachings.
Actually it's not. The Church has prudentially judged that there are almost no circumstances that warrant it, given advanced incarceration systems, but it's not intrinsically evil, like abortion. There could be circumstances where it's justified. That said, I agree with the Church, and don't believe America should have the death penalty. However, I would not be in danger of excommunication if I disagreed. I would definitely be in danger of excommunication (latae sententiae) by supporting politicians that promote abortion.

Quote:
Abortion is not the only issue out there and I have never understood why Christians have made it out to be.
It's the paramount evil. Denying God the right to bring life into the world, and inflicting death on the poorest of the poor (the unborn) cries out to heaven for vengeance.

Quote:
What about respecting life by making healthcare affordable instead of just the province of those who can afford insurance?
They're not mutually exclusive issues. We're a big country run by adults who can do two things at once.

Problem is, we can address healthcare till the cows come home, but if we don't address the incongruity of demanding the right to heal some while defending the right to outright murder others makes any discussion pointless.

Quote:
Is Obama perfect? No. But no president is. He is not out there forcing women to get abortions. He is not the one killing babies. Maybe, just maybe, he recognizes that at this point in time there is no way to get a law passed outlawing abortion, and that even if it did, the Supreme Court would strike it down as they have consistently done since Roe vs. Wade.
Or maybe he just doesn't care about unborn children. The evidence of his voting record, his appointing of radically pro-abortion officials to his staff and cabinet, and his professed desire to sign FOCA overwhelm the rhetoric of "no politician is perfect". The problem is, when someone has power that comes from God, it is morally incumbent for that person to PROTECT the poorest of the poor and defend the sanctity of life. He's the President of the United States. He has the biggest bully pulpit in the world. The world listens to his every word. His party runs Congress. He has immeasurable influence. If, as you believe, he's not in favor of abortion, but is just too scared to speak up, he's not fit to be a leader. The facts indicate, however, that this President wants no abortion left behind.

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I do not identify with either political party because frankly, neither of them adhere to the teachings of the church. Instead, when I vote I weigh all issues and look for the one that I believe is best in line with my own beliefs. I don't see how anybody can look at the record of the Republican party and say they are any more in line with the teachings of the Catholic Church than the Democratic party. They do not respect life, they are not a pro life party, they just happen to be anti abortion, but that hasn't accomplished much now has it?
Again, no one has brought politics into this except Obama supporters. We're not out there quoting Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin. We're quoting Cardinal Chaput, Cardinal George, John Paul II, Archbishop Dolan, etc. What political party do they belong to? Because I thought they were prelates of the Roman Catholic Church.
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  #48  
Old May 22, '09, 9:31 am
Marsha Adams Marsha Adams is offline
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Default Re: Why can't Fr. Jenkins be fired?

[quote=EeyoresButerfly;5230883] Abortion is not the only issue out there and I have never understood why Christians have made it out to be. What about respecting life by making healthcare affordable instead of just the province of those who can afford insurance? Is Obama perfect? No. But no president is. He is not out there forcing women to get abortions. He is not the one killing babies. Maybe, just maybe, he recognizes that at this point in time there is no way to get a law passed outlawing abortion, and that even if it did, the Supreme Court would strike it down as they have consistently done since Roe vs. Wade.

Eeyores Buterfly:

Suppose there was a candidate who respected life by providing universal 100% healthcare, wiped out hunger, guaranteed quality of life for the elderly, outlawed capital punishment and strengthened the economy. However, he was also going to execute all muslims in the U.S.

Could you vote for him? Would you call this one issue voting? After all, he is doing so much to respect life. It is only this one little thing that he is doing that was against life, and it isn't like he would be killing them himself.

This is exactly what Obama has done, only the victims are the unborn. If he targeted a specific group that could be photographed, who people could see and know and work with, the outcry would shake the world, but because he is targeting the unseen unborn babies it is easy to ignore.
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  #49  
Old May 22, '09, 9:42 am
Catholic20064 Catholic20064 is offline
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Default Re: Why can't Fr. Jenkins be fired?

[quote=Marsha Adams;5232801]
Quote:
Originally Posted by EeyoresButerfly View Post
Abortion is not the only issue out there and I have never understood why Christians have made it out to be. What about respecting life by making healthcare affordable instead of just the province of those who can afford insurance? Is Obama perfect? No. But no president is. He is not out there forcing women to get abortions. He is not the one killing babies. Maybe, just maybe, he recognizes that at this point in time there is no way to get a law passed outlawing abortion, and that even if it did, the Supreme Court would strike it down as they have consistently done since Roe vs. Wade.
If there were a candidate who planned on providing 100% healthcare, wipe out hunger, and guaranteed quality of life for the elderly he/she would bankrupt the country. There is no way the U.S. government can effectively do everything you claim it should do. It wouldn't be prudent to bankrupt the country and destroy the economy. It is obligatory that life be respected from the time of conception. We're not talking pie in the sky here -- the U.S. government does have the power to make laws that would make it illegal for a doctor to perform an abortion. It doesn't have the power to effectively provide everyone with quality health care and a worry-free life without destroying the economy and making everyone poorer. A President does have the power to appoint people to the Supreme Court who would overturn Roe vs. Wade, but it won't happen until Catholics are willing to vote for a pro-choice candidate. All we likely need is one more conservative justice to overturn Roe vs. Wade, but liberal Catholics are too blinded by their pie-in-the-sky economic theories to do something to save the unborn.
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  #50  
Old May 22, '09, 9:49 am
Marsha Adams Marsha Adams is offline
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Default Re: Why can't Fr. Jenkins be fired?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catholic20064 View Post

If there were a candidate who planned on providing 100% healthcare, wipe out hunger, and guaranteed quality of life for the elderly he/she would bankrupt the country. There is no way the U.S. government can effectively do everything you claim it should do.
It was a hypothetical example, which is why the first word in the sentence was "suppose". The point is even if it were possible, the one issue of life trumps all of the other things.
__________________

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P.S. Proud to Be a Papist!!
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  #51  
Old May 22, '09, 9:57 am
Catholic20064 Catholic20064 is offline
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Default Re: Why can't Fr. Jenkins be fired?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsha Adams View Post
It was a hypothetical example, which is why the first word in the sentence was "suppose". The point is even if it were possible, the one issue of life trumps all of the other things.
Sorry -- I was confused by the quotation. It looks like Eeyore Butterfly was the one claiming the U.S. government health care policy was more important than abortion. He/she is wrong of course.
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  #52  
Old May 22, '09, 10:05 am
Catholic20064 Catholic20064 is offline
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Default Re: Why can't Fr. Jenkins be fired?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EeyoresButerfly View Post

I do not identify with either political party because frankly, neither of them adhere to the teachings of the church. Instead, when I vote I weigh all issues and look for the one that I believe is best in line with my own beliefs. I don't see how anybody can look at the record of the Republican party and say they are any more in line with the teachings of the Catholic Church than the Democratic party. They do not respect life, they are not a pro life party, they just happen to be anti abortion, but that hasn't accomplished much now has it?
The Republicans won't accomplish anything until the party of death (the Democrats) get with it and start opposing abortion unless the entire Catholic population of the U.S. decides to support politicians who will protect innocent life. By the way the last two Democratic presidents have been pro-capital punishment. Capital punishment is not an intrinsic evil. It is a matter of prudential judgment. Abortion is an intrinsic evil.

How you get people the best health care, whether or not you pursue a war, and many other issues are prudential judgments in which honorable people can disagree. Abortion is an intrinsic evil.

I would have to say that a politician in favor of universal health care and making sure everyone has enough to eat, etc. is probably going to fail. There is no such thing as a free lunch. The only way universal health care works is if you ration health care. That means some people are going to die because they don't get the health care they need. The best thing the government can do is make sure the poor have health care rather than making "universal" coverage mandatory.

Abortion is the civil rights issue of our time even though some would have you believe it is gay marriage! We need to get our priorities straight and protect innocent life.
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  #53  
Old May 22, '09, 10:12 am
mdgspencer mdgspencer is online now
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Default Re: Why can't Fr. Jenkins be fired?

This discussion is losing track of the original issue. The Pope and the U.S. bishops collectively have both insisted that pro-abortion politicans should not be honored by Catholic schools as President Obama has been honored. This would hold true if the pro-abortion politician was a Republican. The Church sees abortion as a great crime, and I think it wonderful that the Church stands firm in the matter and proceeds to act and not just provide words.

[quote=Marsha Adams;5232801]
Quote:
Originally Posted by EeyoresButerfly View Post
Abortion is not the only issue out there and I have never understood why Christians have made it out to be. What about respecting life by making healthcare affordable instead of just the province of those who can afford insurance? Is Obama perfect? No. But no president is. He is not out there forcing women to get abortions. He is not the one killing babies. Maybe, just maybe, he recognizes that at this point in time there is no way to get a law passed outlawing abortion, and that even if it did, the Supreme Court would strike it down as they have consistently done since Roe vs. Wade.

Eeyores Buterfly:

Suppose there was a candidate who respected life by providing universal 100% healthcare, wiped out hunger, guaranteed quality of life for the elderly, outlawed capital punishment and strengthened the economy. However, he was also going to execute all muslims in the U.S.

Could you vote for him? Would you call this one issue voting? After all, he is doing so much to respect life. It is only this one little thing that he is doing that was against life, and it isn't like he would be killing them himself.

This is exactly what Obama has done, only the victims are the unborn. If he targeted a specific group that could be photographed, who people could see and know and work with, the outcry would shake the world, but because he is targeting the unseen unborn babies it is easy to ignore.
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  #54  
Old May 22, '09, 10:14 am
Religion_Ninja Religion_Ninja is offline
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Default Re: Why can't Fr. Jenkins be fired?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsha Adams View Post

Suppose there was a candidate who respected life by providing universal 100% healthcare, wiped out hunger, guaranteed quality of life for the elderly, outlawed capital punishment and strengthened the economy. However, he was also going to execute all muslims in the U.S.

Could you vote for him? Would you call this one issue voting? After all, he is doing so much to respect life. It is only this one little thing that he is doing that was against life, and it isn't like he would be killing them himself.

This is exactly what Obama has done, only the victims are the unborn. If he targeted a specific group that could be photographed, who people could see and know and work with, the outcry would shake the world, but because he is targeting the unseen unborn babies it is easy to ignore.
I hope those complaining about "one issue" voting use that reasoning simply because they don't realize how evil abortion really is. They can't possibly think its murder can they?

Whats is more scary? "Catholics" who think that abortion isn't murder so its just not a big deal or "Catholics" who do think that it is murder and just don't think the murder of millions of babies is a serious enough issue to sway their vote. I think the latter are more scary.
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  #55  
Old May 22, '09, 11:07 am
LoveJesus LoveJesus is offline
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Default Re: Why can't Fr. Jenkins be fired?

What is this, The Inquisition? I'm sure that nobody on this forum has the power to excommunicate anybody from the Church, so this "you're not Catholic" stuff is nonsense. This isn't an elite club for the "goody-goody". The Church is a hospital for sinners, not for saints.

I wish I saw as much outrage over all of the atrocities happening to people on this earth right now...especially children.

Over 1 million people are being killed by malaria every year. Most of them are under the age of 5. Where is the outrage?

All we can do about abortion is try to prevent it from happening. And laws aren't going to fully do the trick...it's going to take a huge change in the cultural views of life to do that. Yet, so many poor and vulnerable people (especially children) are being wiped off the face of the earth (like a holocaust).
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  #56  
Old May 22, '09, 11:33 am
fix fix is offline
 
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Default Re: Why can't Fr. Jenkins be fired?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Religion_Ninja View Post
I hope those complaining about "one issue" voting use that reasoning simply because they don't realize how evil abortion really is. They can't possibly think its murder can they?

Whats is more scary? "Catholics" who think that abortion isn't murder so its just not a big deal or "Catholics" who do think that it is murder and just don't think the murder of millions of babies is a serious enough issue to sway their vote. I think the latter are more scary.
Yes, that is the point.
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  #57  
Old May 22, '09, 11:43 am
adowcday adowcday is offline
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Default Re: Why can't Fr. Jenkins be fired?

For more context, here is the response to Obama's speech by L'Osservatore Romano, the Vatican newspaper. It serves to show just how out of touch with the rest of the world (including the Vatican!) many U.S. Catholics (including many U.S. bishops) are. No surprise: the Vatican has differed markedly with the U.S. episcopate over such issues as war, capital punishment, etc.

Rome, Italy, May 20, 2009 / 06:24 pm (CNA).- The Editor-in-chief of the Vatican newspaper L’Osservatore Romano explained today to Paulo Rodari, a Vatican analyst for the daily “Il Riformista,” that President Barack Obama’s speech to graduates of Notre Dame was very respectful and that he “is not a pro-abortion president.”

In the interview with Rodari, Editor-in-chief Gian Maria Vian discussed his thoughts on President Obama at the University of Notre Dame. “Obama has not upset the world,” he said. “His speech at Notre Dame has been respectful toward every position. He tried to engage the debate stepping out from every ideological position and outside every ‘confrontational mentality.’ To this extent his speech is to be appreciated.”

Vian continued, “Let me be clear, L’Osservatore stands where the American bishops are: we consider abortion a disaster. We must promote, always and at every level a ‘culture of life’.”

“What I want to stress is that yesterday, on this precise and very delicate issue, the President said that the approval of the new law on abortion is not a priority of his administration. The fact that he said that is very reassuring to me. It also underlines my own clear belief: Obama is not a pro-abortion president,” he told Rodari.
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  #58  
Old May 22, '09, 11:45 am
mdgspencer mdgspencer is online now
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Default Re: Why can't Fr. Jenkins be fired?

We are losing track of the topic. If a politician deliberately acted to cause 1 million children to die died of malaria, he should not be honored by a Catholic school too. I agree with you if you are saying something of the sort. Similarly, a poltician who implements the abortion of millions of children should not be honored as well.
Those who act to give health care to such children so that fatality rates will be lowered, are like those who act to make abortion illegal, and, as in this particular matter, who do not honor those who implement abortion.


The original message is: Over 1 million people are being killed by malaria every year. Most of them are under the age of 5. Where is the outrage?

All we can do about abortion is try to prevent it from happening. And laws aren't going to fully do the trick...it's going to take a huge change in the cultural views of life to do that. Yet, so many poor and vulnerable people (especially children) are being wiped off the face of the earth (like a holocaust).[/quote]
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  #59  
Old May 22, '09, 11:49 am
adowcday adowcday is offline
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Default Re: Why can't Fr. Jenkins be fired?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catholic20064 View Post
The Republicans won't accomplish anything until the party of death (the Democrats) get with it and start opposing abortion unless the entire Catholic population of the U.S. decides to support politicians who will protect innocent life.

So much for those who thought it so horrifying and disgusting that I would think that Catholic critics of Obama might be politically motivated. It's all about defending innocent life? Well, not so much...
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  #60  
Old May 22, '09, 11:51 am
fix fix is offline
 
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Default Re: Why can't Fr. Jenkins be fired?

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Originally Posted by adowcday View Post
For more context, here is the response to Obama's speech by L'Osservatore Romano, the Vatican newspaper. It serves to show just how out of touch with the rest of the world (including the Vatican!) many U.S. Catholics (including many U.S. bishops) are. No surprise: the Vatican has differed markedly with the U.S. episcopate over such issues as war, capital punishment, etc.
The article, I believe, is from the editor of the paper. That does not mean the Pope endorses it.
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