Supreme Court clears the way for Terry Schiavo feeding tube - Page 6

wabrams · #76 Jan 24, '05, 2:17 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almeria

Wabrams, for one. Post # 26. "Let her die with her dignity and remove the feeding tube."

You beat me to it.

cove · #77 Jan 24, '05, 2:21 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almeria

Wabrams, for one. Post # 26. "Let her die with her dignity and remove the feeding tube."

How is starving to death "dying with dignity"?

Murders on death row are afforded more dignity then this.

wabrams · #78 Jan 24, '05, 2:24 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by cove

How is starving to death "dying with dignity"?

Murders on death row are afforded more dignity then this.

Go back and read the post before asking me that question.

Marie · #79 Jan 24, '05, 2:31 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Island Oak

If I am in such dire physical failure that extraordinary medical intervention is my only means to live...then that to me is a sign my time here is up. Let me leave gracefully, ease whatever pain I may have yet to endure but please don't string me up with electric cords like a Chrismas tree.

Just a thought...

You may well need to camp yourself outside a confessional hourly then. Just in case you get caught with a serious need to confess, they pull the plug and BAM! You find out too late, God gave you a special penance of suffering so you could get into heaven.

You might well have been dispatched into purgatory for eons or miss heaven all together. No time for repentance.)

My BIL spent 15 years disabled and was glad to do so. He suffered a massive stroke and heart attack at age 42. They recommended pulling the plug as he was brain dead. We said: "NO." Alan proved us correct. He was alive and came out of it...while he could never work again, and was disabled, he was glad for the extra years to serve God. Serve God simply by suffering without self pity.

My mother also managed to survive a stroke and aneurism and amputation. She lived four more years and was glad to be alive. Blind and a double amputee.

Island Oak · #80 Jan 24, '05, 2:42 pm

Same result if I inadvertently get hit by a truck. My personal goal is to drop dead after a perfect run on a sunny day in the powder of the back bowls of any Colorado mountain. It is my living, not my manner of exit that may offer me a side trip to purgatory. And in that regard, only God knows my heart and I trust him implicitly. Allowing someone to stick tubes in my body to forestall some image of boogeymen and suffering in the afterlife is not to me reasonable planning for this world, much less my eternal life.

cove · #81 Jan 24, '05, 2:42 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by wabrams

Go back and read the post before asking me that question.

I know you think she is brain dead and not capable of feeling pain.

My point still stands. Do you know what has to happen to your body in order to die in this manner? It is not a quick process.

Whether she can feel or not. To starve a human being to death is just plain inhumane. We treat murders on death row with more humanity.

From the evidence that is available regarding Terri, it is very evident that she would suffer.

wabrams · #82 Jan 24, '05, 2:46 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by cove

I know you think she is brain dead and not capable of feeling pain.

My point still stands. Do you know what has to happen to your body in order to die in this manner? It is not a quick process.

Whether she can feel or not. To starve a human being to death is just plain inhumane. We treat murders on death row with more humanity.

From the evidence that is available regarding Terri, it is very evident that she would suffer.

I know what goes on when someone starves to death. The question I proposed is that if she is really brain dead, then will her mind even register the pain. In addition, there are plenty of painkillers someone can be doped up on. Maybe an alternative is when a feeding tube is removed, my not pump the patient up on morphine: over in a minute or two. Then agian, maybe not; could lead to much worse practices.

Nichevo · #83 Jan 24, '05, 2:49 pm

Of interest:

http://www.propertyrightsresearch.or...ri_schiavo.htm

and for those of you who question the whole "how can you feel pain if you're in a vegetative state?" idea (BTW please use correct terminology, and say that someone is in a vegetative state and not a vegetable. It's rather ignorant) Follow this link where the "Exit Protocol" for Terri Schiavo has been reprinted. The protocol discusses how she should be killed.

http://thrownback.blogspot.com/2004_...21407332095963

Jeremy · #84 Jan 24, '05, 2:51 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marie

He suffered a massive stroke and heart attack at age 42. They recommended pulling the plug as he was brain dead. We said: "NO." Alan proved us correct. He was alive and came out of it.

It sounds as though your husband was the recipient of a miracle, and both of you are blessed.

However, the Evangelium Vitae warns that we are not to end a life "before its time". If, according to professional medical opinion, a person is only going to recover via a miracle from God, then I think it is safe to say that that person's time has come. From what I understand, this is Terri's current status.

Marie · #85 Jan 24, '05, 2:55 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Island Oak

Same result if I inadvertently get hit by a truck. My personal goal is to drop dead after a perfect run on a sunny day in the powder of the back bowls of any Colorado mountain. It is my living, not my manner of exit that may offer me a side trip to purgatory. And in that regard, only God knows my heart and I trust him implicitly. Allowing someone to stick tubes in my body to forestall some image of boogeymen and suffering in the afterlife is not to me reasonable planning for this world, much less my eternal life.

Your personal goal is, I would presume, to follow God's will for your life. To trust Him to know the time and place and the means of your death. That means...You don't tell God...I don't want suffering because I have a personal goal of getting hit by a Mac Truck and I am outta here.

cove · #86 Jan 24, '05, 2:59 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by wabrams

I know what goes on when someone starves to death. The question I proposed is that if she is really brain dead, then will her mind even register the pain. In addition, there are plenty of painkillers someone can be doped up on. Maybe an alternative is when a feeding tube is removed, my not pump the patient up on morphine: over in a minute or two. Then agian, maybe not; could lead to much worse practices.

Sorry, wabrams, but that would be murder.

The point in letting her starve is that it would be considered a "natural" death. They are not taking any extraordinary means to keep her alive.

She is not "brain dead". For example, you can starve and infant to death. They probably wouldn't know what was happening to them but they surely would "suffer".

Marie · #87 Jan 24, '05, 3:00 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy

It sounds as though your husband was the recipient of a miracle, and both of you are blessed. Correction: Alan was my brother in law.

However, the Evangelium Vitae warns that we are not to end a life "before its time". If, according to professional medical opinion, a person is only going to recover via a miracle from God, then I think it is safe to say that that person's time has come. From what I understand, this is Terri's current status.

My brother in law was not a biggie miracle. We fought to keep him on life support. He began to respond...FINALLY. Alan did not get well. He lived 15 years more with a badly damaged heart and brain damage from lack of oxygen. Still and all, his life was a miracle. Point being...unless you have come to such a point, you cannot really know how precious life is...even in it's most distressing disguise.

wabrams · #88 Jan 24, '05, 3:02 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by cove

She is not "brain dead".

How do we know this?

Marie · #89 Jan 24, '05, 3:04 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by wabrams

How do we know this?

That's easy....she can breath on her own. Brain dead people don't do that.

Jeremy · #90 Jan 24, '05, 3:10 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marie

Point being...unless you have come to such a point, you cannot really know how precious life is...even in it's most distressing disguise.

I am sorry for the confusion about husband vs. brother-in-law.

I disagree with you that you have to endure some special hardship before you realize how precious life is.