Catholic FAQ


Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics > Sacred Scripture
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #1  
Old Jun 19, '09, 1:55 pm
distracted distracted is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: January 9, 2007
Posts: 14,847
Religion: catechized ROMAN Catholic
Default today & tomorrow's Mass readings (The flames will not consume you / Jesus indicates that the Church is the House of the Father)

Fr (6-19)



Hosea 11:1-9
:

Thus says the Lord: When Israel was a child I loved him, out of Egypt I called my son. Yet it was I who taught Ephraim to walk, who took them in my arms; I drew them with human cords, with bands of love; I fostered them like one who raises an infant to his cheeks; yet, though I stooped to feed my child, they did not know that I was their healer. My heart is overwhelmed, my pity is stirred. I will not give vent to my blazing anger, I will not destroy Ephraim again; for I am God and not a man, the Holy One present among you; I will not let the flames consume you


Ephesians 3:8

Brothers and Sisters: To me, the very least of all the holy ones, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the inscrutable riches of Christ, and to bring to light for all what is the plan of the mystery hidden from ages past in God who created all things, so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the Church to the principalities and authorities in the heavens. This was according to the eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness of speech and confidence of access through faith in him. For this reason I kneel before the Father, from whom every family in Heaven and on Earth is named, that he may grant you in accord with the riches of his glory to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in the inner self, and that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, rooted and grounded in love, may have strength to comprehend with all the holy ones what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, so that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.


St Jn 19:31-37:

Since it was preparation day, in order that the bodies might not remain on the cross on the Sabbath, for the Sabbath day of that week was a solemn one, the Jews asked Pilate that their legs be broken and they be taken down. So the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first and then of the other one who was crucified with Jesus. But when they came to Jesus and saw that he was already dead, they did not break his legs, but one soldier thrust his lance into his side, and immediately blood and water flowed out. An eyewitness has testified, and his testimony is true; he knows that he is speaking the truth, so that you also may come to believe. For this happened so that the scripture passage might be fulfilled: not a bone of it will be broken. And again another passage says: They will look upon him whom they have pierced.




Sa (6-20)



2 Cor 12:1-10:

Brothers and Sisters: I must boast; not that it is profitable, but I will go on to visions and revelations of the Lord. I know a man in Christ who, fourteen years ago (whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows) was caught up to the third Heaven. I know that his man (whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows) was caught up into Paradise and heard ineffable things, which no one may utter. About this man I will boast, but about myself I will not boast, except about my weaknesses. Although If I should wish to boast, I would not be foolish, for I would be telling the truth. But I refrain, so that no one may think more of me than what he sees in me or hears from me because of the abundance of the revelations. Therefore, that I might not become too elated, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, an angel of Satan, to beat me, to keep me from being too elated. Three times I begged the Lord about this, that it might leave me, but he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is made perfect in weakness.” I will rather boast most gladly of my weaknesses, in order that the power of Christ may dwell with me. Therefore, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and constraints, for the sake of Christ; for when I am weak, then I am strong.


St Lk 2:41-51:

Each year Jesus’ parents went to Jerusalem for the feast of Passover, and when he was twelve years old, they went up according to festival custom. After they had completed its days, as they were returning, the boy Jesus remained behind in Jerusalem, but his parents did not know it. Thinking that he was in the caravan, they journeyed for a day and looked for him among their relative and acquaintances, but not finding him, they returned to Jerusalem to look for him. After three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions, and all who heard him were astounded at his understanding and his answers. When his parents saw him, they were astonished, and his mother said to him, “Son, why have you done this to us? Your father and I have been looking for you with great anxiety.” And he said to them, “Why were you looking for me? Did you not know that I must be in my Father’s house?” But they did not understand what he said to them. He went down with them and came to Nazareth, and was obedient to them; and his mother kept all these things in her heart.




I will not let the flames consume you, God says.. I think of the flames of Purgatory and the flames of Hell... which do not consume but in Purgatory they cleanse/purify..

Jesus says to his parents Did you not know i must be in my Father's house?

It's interesting that Jesus is in a physical building... So all those who say Jesus cannot be put into a building... well... here Jesus calls the Church (then synagogue) the Father's House.


Ephesians 3:8 seems to describe the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the (tangible) Church... (for me anyway)..
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old Jun 19, '09, 3:20 pm
cheeto1 cheeto1 is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: October 13, 2004
Posts: 2,359
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: today & tomorrow's Mass readings (The flames will not consume you / Jesus indicates that the Church is the House of the Father)

Even today God stoops to feed us and we don't know it is He who heals us.
We may feel "I went to the store/restaurant and got that food myself, with the
money I earned myself I paid the doctor to heal me..."

In the 2nd reading, why should the manifold wisdom of God be made known to the
principalities and authorities in the heavens? Don't the angels already know? Isn't it us that the church makes known God's wisdom to? And why should the devils angels
be informed of God's wisdom? We shouldn't tell them anything...

In the third reading I was wondering how they broke their legs?. Since Jesus had already died, they just used the spear to prove it by the water. But I wonder, if both blood and water flowed out, how did they see the water?

That was interesting what you said about purgatory..
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old Jun 19, '09, 3:31 pm
distracted distracted is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: January 9, 2007
Posts: 14,847
Religion: catechized ROMAN Catholic
Default Re: today & tomorrow's Mass readings (The flames will not consume you / Jesus indicates that the Church is the House of the Father)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheeto1 View Post
Even today God stoops to feed us and we don't know it is He who heals us.
We may feel "I went to the store/restaurant and got that food myself, with the
money I earned myself I paid the doctor to heal me..."

In the 2nd reading, why should the manifold wisdom of God be made known to the
principalities and authorities in the heavens? Don't the angels already know? Isn't it us that the church makes known God's wisdom to? And why should the devils angels
be informed of God's wisdom? We shouldn't tell them anything...

In the third reading I was wondering how they broke their legs?. Since Jesus had already died, they just used the spear to prove it by the water. But I wonder, if both blood and water flowed out, how did they see the water?

That was interesting what you said about purgatory..
thanks... don't have much time right now...but uh.. what do you know about Purgatory??
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old Jun 19, '09, 3:45 pm
cheeto1 cheeto1 is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: October 13, 2004
Posts: 2,359
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: today & tomorrow's Mass readings (The flames will not consume you / Jesus indicates that the Church is the House of the Father)

Quote:
Originally Posted by distracted View Post
thanks... don't have much time right now...but uh.. what do you know about Purgatory??
Never been there, don't know a thing...
But I just didn't think of it for the reading. All I thought of with that reading was how the world will likely end in fire, but not comsume us, since God will shorten the days..
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old Jun 20, '09, 6:06 am
NHInsider's Avatar
NHInsider NHInsider is offline
Regular Member
Forum Supporter
 
Join Date: November 23, 2008
Posts: 2,492
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: today & tomorrow's Mass readings (The flames will not consume you / Jesus indicates that the Church is the House of the Father)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheeto1 View Post

In the 2nd reading, why should the manifold wisdom of God be made known to the
principalities and authorities in the heavens? Don't the angels already know? Isn't it us that the church makes known God's wisdom to? And why should the devils angels
be informed of God's wisdom? We shouldn't tell them anything...
I think this is suggesting the triumphant procession idea - the conqueror parades through, heralded by his supporters, impressing upon those who did not support him that they have emphatically lost . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheeto1 View Post
In the third reading I was wondering how they broke their legs?. Since Jesus had already died, they just used the spear to prove it by the water. But I wonder, if both blood and water flowed out, how did they see the water?
I expect they broke their legs with a club, though I don't know that for a fact.

The blood-and-water indicates that the soldier made sure Jesus was really dead by stabbing his heart - the lance pierced the pericardium (the sac around the heart, which is filled with a clear fluid), so that what ran from the wound was both blood and "water."

There is of course a spiritual meaning as well - that blood (Eucharist) and water (Baptism) flow from the heart of Jesus because of his saving sacrifice.
__________________
"Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord." Heb. 12:14

Crossed the Tiber 1980 (no, I can't swim)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old Jun 20, '09, 10:49 am
cheeto1 cheeto1 is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: October 13, 2004
Posts: 2,359
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: today & tomorrow's Mass readings (The flames will not consume you / Jesus indicates that the Church is the House of the Father)

These words from 6/20/09 Saturday first reading:
"I know a man in Christ who...was caught up to the third heaven"
What is the third heaven? Is there a 1st and 2nd heaven? Is there a 4th or 5th heaven?

Something strikes me about today's gospel, and not just the question of how a
sinless Jesus could do this to His parents. God didn't leave Mary as a single
mother in this world. It was o.k. that Jesus was born in a "barn" in poverty, but it
was not o.k. with God to leave Jesus without a father in this world. So today I
notice that they waited probably till night-time to look for Jesus. How many wagons
must have been in this caravan? Any parent, before they even left would notice,
o.k., He's with aunt sally's family, or o.k., He's going with Johnny and Jimmy, etc.
But Joseph and Mary felt so comfortable with Every one of their family and
acquaintances, that it didn't even matter to them who He went with. What I am
noticing is this: God didn't just give Jesus His parents Joseph and Mary. It was
also important to Him to give Jesus a large family full of close relatives and friends to be raised with, even though He was an only child. So now let's remember that we are important in the lives of the children God has given us as relatives and acquaintances, even when we are not their parents.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old Jun 20, '09, 11:06 am
cheeto1 cheeto1 is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: October 13, 2004
Posts: 2,359
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: today & tomorrow's Mass readings (The flames will not consume you / Jesus indicates that the Church is the House of the Father)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NHInsider View Post
I expect they broke their legs with a club, though I don't know that for a fact.
That must have been the worst thing ever. It was already agony just to take another
breath, yet they kept deciding to take another breath, and prolong their agony.
The devil himself had to invent crucifixion. If Jesus were executed today, it would
be by lethal injection. Surely they had invented deadly poison back then... Why
were they so cruel back then compared to now? Is it because God had not been
revealed to the world yet in the form of Jesus?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old Jun 20, '09, 11:40 am
distracted distracted is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: January 9, 2007
Posts: 14,847
Religion: catechized ROMAN Catholic
Default Re: today & tomorrow's Mass readings (The flames will not consume you / Jesus indicates that the Church is the House of the Father)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheeto1 View Post
Never been there, don't know a thing...
But I just didn't think of it for the reading. All I thought of with that reading was how the world will likely end in fire, but not comsume us, since God will shorten the days..
if you are a devout Catholic ... ouspoken to others about your faith..

you are definitely in Purgatory..
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old Jun 20, '09, 12:46 pm
Joe Kelley Joe Kelley is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: June 24, 2004
Posts: 15,980
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: today & tomorrow's Mass readings (The flames will not consume you / Jesus indicates that the Church is the House of the Father)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NHInsider View Post
. . .

I expect they broke their legs with a club, though I don't know that for a fact.
. . ..
I recall reading someplace that the Romans had a special instrument for that. Not sure of how true that is, but knowing the Romans I suspect it may be true.
__________________
I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse; therefore choose life, that you and your descendants may live,
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old Jun 20, '09, 1:09 pm
cheeto1 cheeto1 is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: October 13, 2004
Posts: 2,359
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: today & tomorrow's Mass readings (The flames will not consume you / Jesus indicates that the Church is the House of the Father)

Quote:
Originally Posted by distracted View Post
if you are a devout Catholic ... ouspoken to others about your faith..

you are definitely in Purgatory..
Really? Are you in purgatory now, sitting in your chair in a non-bombed out building
of some sort after sleeping in a bed and eating some type of food...
Have you seen the sun, the sky, the clouds, felt the breeze instead of a cement
jail cell? Has someone said they love you, or given you a job?
Have you been free to read the daily readings and go to mass and confession
without government prevention? This very website is chock-full of faithful Christians
you can talk to anytime you want, does a person in purgatory have that?

Yes, it is suffering to be persecuted for your faith, and yes sometimes it seems
like it will never end, but think of this: What if you had no suffering or persecution
for your faith, Because You Had No Faith? Which is greater, to suffer a little with
faith, or to suffer not at all without it? And how many times in just one day does
God give us both faith and heaven?

Tomorrow at mass with your brothers and sisters in faith, I pray you will know you are in
heaven...
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old Jun 20, '09, 9:34 pm
seeker of God seeker of God is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: October 3, 2008
Posts: 625
Religion: Catholic
Send a message via AIM to seeker of God Send a message via MSN to seeker of God Send a message via Skype™ to seeker of God
Default Re: today & tomorrow's Mass readings (The flames will not consume you / Jesus indicates that the Church is the House of the Father)

I'm curious, who was this person Paul was talking about who was "caught up into the third heaven"?
__________________
Kyrie, eleison!

Apart from the cross there is no other ladder by which we may get to heaven. (St. Rose of Lima)

Wonder is the feeling of a philosopher, and philosophy begins in wonder. (Theaetetus)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old Jun 21, '09, 12:22 am
cheeto1 cheeto1 is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: October 13, 2004
Posts: 2,359
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: today & tomorrow's Mass readings (The flames will not consume you / Jesus indicates that the Church is the House of the Father)

Quote:
Originally Posted by seeker of God View Post
I'm curious, who was this person Paul was talking about who was "caught up into the third heaven"?
What if it was the apostle John, who wrote Revelation?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old Jun 21, '09, 7:04 am
seeker of God seeker of God is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: October 3, 2008
Posts: 625
Religion: Catholic
Send a message via AIM to seeker of God Send a message via MSN to seeker of God Send a message via Skype™ to seeker of God
Default Re: today & tomorrow's Mass readings (The flames will not consume you / Jesus indicates that the Church is the House of the Father)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheeto1 View Post
What if it was the apostle John, who wrote Revelation?
I think I heard the letters to the Corinthians were written around 57 A.D.? Assuming John wrote Revelation a couple years thereafter, that would have meant he waited over 15 years to write about such a stunning experience, which seems implausible to me. I guess it's possible though.
__________________
Kyrie, eleison!

Apart from the cross there is no other ladder by which we may get to heaven. (St. Rose of Lima)

Wonder is the feeling of a philosopher, and philosophy begins in wonder. (Theaetetus)
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old Jun 21, '09, 7:29 am
seeker of God seeker of God is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: October 3, 2008
Posts: 625
Religion: Catholic
Send a message via AIM to seeker of God Send a message via MSN to seeker of God Send a message via Skype™ to seeker of God
Default Re: today & tomorrow's Mass readings (The flames will not consume you / Jesus indicates that the Church is the House of the Father)

Or maybe a few decades. I seem to have been mistaken on when Revelation was written, since one thing I read said the early 60's A.D., and another said around 95. 95 is closer to what I've always heard, but I wasn't sure.
__________________
Kyrie, eleison!

Apart from the cross there is no other ladder by which we may get to heaven. (St. Rose of Lima)

Wonder is the feeling of a philosopher, and philosophy begins in wonder. (Theaetetus)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old Jun 21, '09, 11:50 am
Joe Kelley Joe Kelley is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: June 24, 2004
Posts: 15,980
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: today & tomorrow's Mass readings (The flames will not consume you / Jesus indicates that the Church is the House of the Father)

Quote:
Originally Posted by seeker of God View Post
I'm curious, who was this person Paul was talking about who was "caught up into the third heaven"?
Someplace I got the idea that it was Saint Paul speaking of himself in the third person. I see that the footnote in the NAB links the Corinthians verse to Acts 9:3, Paul on the road to Damascus, which tends to support this. The timing seems right.
__________________
I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse; therefore choose life, that you and your descendants may live,
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics > Sacred Scripture

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
8535Meet and talk,talk talk
Last by: svid2
5197CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: James_OPL
4433Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: DesertSister62
4037OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: eschator83
3869SOLITUDE
Last by: Prairie Rose
3833Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: RJB
3392Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: grateful_child
3299Poems and Reflections
Last by: PathWalker
3231Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: Rifester
3150For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: flower lady



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 6:41 pm.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2014, Catholic Answers.