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  #1  
Old Jun 21, '09, 4:02 pm
thunderballs75 thunderballs75 is offline
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Default Why shouldn't Catholics learn Latin?

I always hear that one of the main reasons some Catholics are opposed to the Latin Mass (or at least prefer English) is because they say that they can't learn Latin. But I ask, why not? I was 15 when I learned the Latin Mass and its prayers, and it wasn't that hard for me. It just takes a little faith and effort. My other example is to look at the Muslims. They are often willing to learn at least the basic prayers and words of Arabic in order to read the Quran. And there are more Muslims than there are Latin Rite Catholics. Why then can't we learn a small amount of Latin to have the great gift of praying the Mass together, be it Hispanic, White, Black, Asian, etc.? Just a thought. I know that Latin is not going to become universal again, but this is why I think it isn't impossible. What do you think?
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  #2  
Old Jun 21, '09, 4:20 pm
OhMalley OhMalley is offline
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Default Re: Why shouldn't Catholics learn Latin?

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Originally Posted by thunderballs75 View Post
I always hear that one of the main reasons some Catholics are opposed to the Latin Mass (or at least prefer English) is because they say that they can't learn Latin. But I ask, why not? I was 15 when I learned the Latin Mass and its prayers, and it wasn't that hard for me. It just takes a little faith and effort. My other example is to look at the Muslims. They are often willing to learn at least the basic prayers and words of Arabic in order to read the Quran. And there are more Muslims than there are Latin Rite Catholics. Why then can't we learn a small amount of Latin to have the great gift of praying the Mass together, be it Hispanic, White, Black, Asian, etc.? Just a thought. I know that Latin is not going to become universal again, but this is why I think it isn't impossible. What do you think?
I have never head anyone say they "can't" learn Latin but most certainly did not even when the Mass was only in Latin.

In the end it probably comes down to time. People would rather pray, read the Bible, etc. etc. etc. than learn to read Latin when the benefits of doing so are rather limited for most people.
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  #3  
Old Jun 21, '09, 4:33 pm
gez722 gez722 is offline
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Default Re: Why shouldn't Catholics learn Latin?

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Originally Posted by thunderballs75 View Post
I always hear that one of the main reasons some Catholics are opposed to the Latin Mass (or at least prefer English) is because they say that they can't learn Latin. But I ask, why not? I was 15 when I learned the Latin Mass and its prayers, and it wasn't that hard for me. It just takes a little faith and effort. My other example is to look at the Muslims. They are often willing to learn at least the basic prayers and words of Arabic in order to read the Quran. And there are more Muslims than there are Latin Rite Catholics. Why then can't we learn a small amount of Latin to have the great gift of praying the Mass together, be it Hispanic, White, Black, Asian, etc.? Just a thought. I know that Latin is not going to become universal again, but this is why I think it isn't impossible. What do you think?
While I would love to learn more Latin, I know that I'm in the minority among Catholics. I taught myself some basic prayers in Latin a few years ago, and I'm glad that we have the option of participating in the TLM Mass, but it would be an uphill battle expecting the average Catholic to learn Latin. It's hard enough to get many of them to understand the need for going to Sunday Mass!

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  #4  
Old Jun 21, '09, 4:39 pm
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Default Re: Why shouldn't Catholics learn Latin?

I find Latin a very interesting language myself. I have taught myself Latin and picked up a few pointers from Catholics who speak Latin. You have some very good web sites out there that can help,it takes dedication and the willing to learn the language.
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  #5  
Old Jun 21, '09, 4:48 pm
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Default Re: Why shouldn't Catholics learn Latin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderballs75 View Post
I always hear that one of the main reasons some Catholics are opposed to the Latin Mass (or at least prefer English) is because they say that they can't learn Latin. But I ask, why not? I was 15 when I learned the Latin Mass and its prayers, and it wasn't that hard for me. It just takes a little faith and effort. My other example is to look at the Muslims. They are often willing to learn at least the basic prayers and words of Arabic in order to read the Quran. And there are more Muslims than there are Latin Rite Catholics. Why then can't we learn a small amount of Latin to have the great gift of praying the Mass together, be it Hispanic, White, Black, Asian, etc.? Just a thought. I know that Latin is not going to become universal again, but this is why I think it isn't impossible. What do you think?
I learned Latin in my 4 year in the Semnary back in the mid 60s. To be honest , having spent time in mexico every year for the last 20 or so years, I wish I had learned Sapanish instead

On the serious side with the Mass in the vernacular there is no compelling reason for a catholic to learn Latin.
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  #6  
Old Jun 21, '09, 4:58 pm
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michaeldaniels michaeldaniels is offline
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Default Re: Why shouldn't Catholics learn Latin?

It should be taught in all Catholic schools..and parishes without a school attached to it should teach it as well...There are those who are lazy and have no desire to learn...those that are comfortable and afraid to travel outside of their comfort zone...doing just enough to get by...For the life of me, I do understand how people do not realize the importance of the universality that Latin brings to The Church...It is beneficial for many reasons. I think it is sad that for the most part, a lot of Catholics are content with being glorified protestants...I have seen some Masses that you couldn't tell the difference from a Lutheran or Anglican service...the Churches look like fast food restaurants now...all our statues and stain glass and beautiful Icons are gone...the religious no longer wear their habits...some priest do not wear their clerics...hardly anyone goes to confession anymore, but they still receive Communion (either everyone is ready for canonization or there is a bunch of sacriligeous Communions taking place)...they were any type of clothes they want to, to Mass...the Priest, instead of making people aware of their sins and condemning their sinful actions, they are afraid to tell people they are living wrong...women are on the Altar...and laypeople distribute Holy Communion even when their presence is not needed...This is so very sad...it breaks my heart...All of these things are happening and we are just allowing it and even advocating more radical changes to our Faith...Why the Hell should we be Catholic any longer when we are throwing away all the unique aspects of our Faith that identifies us as Catholics??????
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  #7  
Old Jun 21, '09, 5:11 pm
CassiusLonginus CassiusLonginus is offline
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Default Re: Why shouldn't Catholics learn Latin?

Learning Latin is a great idea, plus it'll help in learning a lot of the European languages. On the other hand I've never understood people complaining about Masses in Latin because as long as you have a missal or missalette, it's all right there in front of you in your own language anyway.
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  #8  
Old Jun 21, '09, 5:36 pm
thunderballs75 thunderballs75 is offline
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Default Re: Why shouldn't Catholics learn Latin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by estesbob View Post
I learned Latin in my 4 year in the Semnary back in the mid 60s. To be honest , having spent time in mexico every year for the last 20 or so years, I wish I had learned Sapanish instead

On the serious side with the Mass in the vernacular there is no compelling reason for a catholic to learn Latin.
I have to disagree. Latin is useful in that:
1) It keeps a standard for the Church in general.
2) You can pray the same exact Mass everywhere, be it Europe, North/South America, Asia, Africa, Australia, etc.
3) Communities aren't separated by English, Spanish, or Vietnamese Mass-goers as it is here, and consequently we are never separated by racial lines.
4) You don't ever have to worry about mistranslations ("for many" and "for all" comes to mind).
5) It emphasizes the unity and universality of the Church.
6) We can continue the traditions of our ancestors for nearly 1500 years!

And it doesn't require learning the entire language! Just learning the standard prayers of the Mass. It really isn't as hard as people make it out to be.
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  #9  
Old Jun 21, '09, 5:42 pm
Timothysis Timothysis is offline
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Default Re: Why shouldn't Catholics learn Latin?

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Originally Posted by michaeldaniels View Post
I think it is sad that for the most part, a lot of Catholics are content with being glorified protestants...
What gives you the right to make such a judgment against anyone? What I think is sad is people like you who think that they are more holy than the rest of us.
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  #10  
Old Jun 21, '09, 5:45 pm
Matariel Matariel is offline
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Default Re: Why shouldn't Catholics learn Latin?

Poetically and musically speaking, Latin is a very beautiful language. Linguistically, I think it's more suitable for the liturgy than English. Of course, the Second Vatican Council never wanted a complete elimination of Latin from the Latin-Rite Mass-- It said some parts could be in English, but some of the parts were supposed to remain in Latin. Of course, in the Latin Rite, one small part is in Greek-- the Kyrie Eleison.
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  #11  
Old Jun 21, '09, 5:48 pm
Walden Walden is offline
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Default Re: Why shouldn't Catholics learn Latin?

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Originally Posted by thunderballs75 View Post
3) Communities aren't separated by "English" and "Spanish" Mass-goers as it is here.
This one really gets to me sometimes. It's like there are two sets of parishioners at the same parish. Most of the time they don't see each other. My girlfriend is 2nd generation Mexican. (Unfortunately, she doesn't speak a lick of Spanish!) Having Mass in the vernacular at a parish with significant numbers of both Hispanic and English speaking members effectively segregates the parish. It's unrealistic to expect each group to attend the others Mass if they aren't bilingual. A return to exclusively Latin isn't going to happen. It seems like a problem to me, but I don't know what the solution is...
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Old Jun 21, '09, 5:48 pm
thunderballs75 thunderballs75 is offline
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Default Re: Why shouldn't Catholics learn Latin?

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Originally Posted by Timothysis View Post
What gives you the right to make such a judgment against anyone? What I think is sad is people like you who think that they are more holy than the rest of us.
I'm not so sure he thinks that he himself is holy, but I think what he's trying to say is that the Catholic Church is holier than the protestant Churches. This is true. Whether we like to say it or not, the protestants are in schism and propagate heretical teachings.
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  #13  
Old Jun 21, '09, 5:50 pm
Matariel Matariel is offline
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Default Re: Why shouldn't Catholics learn Latin?

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What gives you the right to make such a judgment against anyone? What I think is sad is people like you who think that they are more holy than the rest of us.
Relax, I don't think it was intended as a personal insult. The truth is, unfortunately in the U.S. and in parts of Europe, there are Catholics that seemingly want to "de-Catholicise" Catholicism, and make it a kind of least-common-denominator religion. I personally knew these Catholics in my other parish. They claimed the Church was "just another denomination" and there was just as much truth in the Protestant denominations as in the Church. Fortunately, there were only two or three people I knew that held to this heretical view, but it's definitely out there in some parishes, even though it's heresy to the holy Catholic and apostolic religion of the Church.
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  #14  
Old Jun 21, '09, 5:58 pm
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Default Re: Why shouldn't Catholics learn Latin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderballs75 View Post
I have to disagree. Latin is useful in that:
1) It keeps a standard for the Church in general.
2) You can pray the same exact Mass everywhere, be it Europe, North/South America, Asia, Africa, Australia, etc.
3) Communities aren't separated by English, Spanish, or Vietnamese Mass-goers as it is here, and consequently we are never separated by racial lines.
4) You don't ever have to worry about mistranslations ("for many" and "for all" comes to mind).
5) It emphasizes the unity and universality of the Church.
6) We can continue the traditions of our ancestors for nearly 1500 years!

And it doesn't require learning the entire language! Just learning the standard prayers of the Mass. It really isn't as hard as people make it out to be.
The problem is that you're only citing religious reasons. I mean from what I learned in Linguistics, the purpose of language has always been that of communication. And, considering that it sounds like the only point of learning Latin is that you could understand the Latin Mass, that's not much incentive compared to learning a language so it could be easier to speak with the majority of a certain country's population. I mean didn't the apostles receive the gift of being able to speak different languages at some point? I do like how you said you don't need to learn the entire language but eh, I'm still willing to bet that you need to grasp a good deal of the grammar and that alone can still be pretty hard.

P.S.

Um, do you know that your #2 could be applied to English as well?
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  #15  
Old Jun 21, '09, 6:24 pm
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WetCatechumen WetCatechumen is offline
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Default Re: Why shouldn't Catholics learn Latin?

One thing I will say that would be awesome . . .

I know, some people will call me horrible, but wouldn't it be neat if Catholics had their own language that they all could speak to each other.

I read this story of a Protestant missionary who brought the message of Christ to an obscure tribe in South America that had never heard the gospel before. He was a nerdy kid and spoke Latin, but he felt such a burning call to go to Venezuela . . . that he never bothered to learn Spanish before going. He ran into a priest in the airport and that's how he got through customs and to a place to stay, because he and the priest spoke Latin to each other.

I just think it would be cool to run into some random person who speaks Mandarin only or something, and because we both share the bond of Christ we can share language and communicate.

I know, it would be rather in-clubby.
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