Karl Keating's E-Letter of January 25, 2005

**Forum Admin** · #1 Jan 25, '05, 11:29 am

Karl's E-Letter of January 25, 2005

Topic:

Animal Rights and Wrongs

==========
http://www.catholic.com/newsletters/kke_050125.asp

StFrancis2 · #2 Jan 25, '05, 12:29 pm

Excellent article Karl!!!!
But can you take it a step further?

We here in Oregon are facing unprecedented restrictions on developing land in "environmental" zones. Opponents of development, such as members of the Autobon Society, marine biologists and run of the mill tree huggers espouse a philosophy that borders on Pantheism. Surprisingly, our bishops have come out with a document supporting the environmentalists. Yet the taking of land, without compensation, "for the good of all" remains an injustice none the less, for the few.

Karl, knowing how much you love nature, this may tax your reasoning to its limits. I'm curious to see what your response will be.

avie · #3 Jan 25, '05, 12:35 pm

Here is something to consider concerning animals not being spiritual or immortal. In Jonah chapter 4 God is correcting Jonah because of his complaining of the castor-oil plant withering that provided him some shade from the desert sun as he pouted over God's mercy on the repentent Ninevites.

"You are only upset about a castor-oil plant which cost you no labor, which you did not make grow, which spouted in a night and parished in a night. Am I not to feel sorry for Nieveh, a great city, in which there are more than a hunderd and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left. to say nothing of all the animals?"

Seems to me the scriptures are alluding to some type of place in eternity of animals as they relate to humans. It may be that we make animals holy as they serve us, as we love and care for them.

avie · #4 Jan 25, '05, 12:42 pm

Here is something to consider concerning animals not being spiritual or immortal. In Jonah chapter 4 God is correcting Jonah because of his complaining of the castor-oil plant withering that provided him some shade from the desert sun as he pouted over God's mercy on the repentent Ninevites.

"You are only upset about a castor-oil plant which cost you no labor, which you did not make grow, which spouted in a night and parished in a night. Am I not to feel sorry for Nieveh, a great city, in which there are more than a hunderd and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left. to say nothing of all the animals?"

Seems to me the scriptures are alluding to some type of place in eternity of animals as they relate to humans. It may be that we make animals holy as they serve us, as we love and care for them.

4 marks · #5 Jan 25, '05, 1:30 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Administrator

Karl's E-Letter of January 25, 2005

Topic:

Animal Rights and Wrongs

==========
http://www.catholic.com/newsletters/kke_050125.asp

In the Book of Ecclesiastes, Chapter 3, there is a section that reads as follows:

"I said to myself: As for the children of men, it is God's way of testing them and of showing that they are in themselves like beasts.

19

For the lot of man and of beast is one lot; the one dies as well as the other. Both have the same life-breath, and man has no advantage over the beast; but all is vanity.

20

Both go to the same place; both were made from the dust, and to the dust they both return.

21

Who knows if the life-breath of the children of men goes upward and the life-breath of beasts goes earthward?"

God's Word people....God's word.

akaiser · #6 Jan 25, '05, 1:52 pm

Isn't sad that there are people out there that think more of their dogs then they do the children of this world.

We also have a german short hair pointer. Do they ever settle down!! Our dog is named Fleck with is german for Spot.

Trelow · #7 Jan 25, '05, 1:53 pm

Great newsletter.

**Karl Keating** · #8 Jan 25, '05, 2:02 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by StFrancis2

Yet the taking of land, without compensation, "for the good of all" remains an injustice none the less, for the few.

Karl, knowing how much you love nature, this may tax your reasoning to its limits. I'm curious to see what your response will be.

I think eminent domain is widely misused. Originally it was to be restricted to "public improvements" such as roads, but today it commonly is used to seize small plots from private owners and to turn them over to corporations that will build hotels or other things that will generate lots of tax income.

I think this is unjust. Land should be taken under eminent domain only if there is an overriding public purpose, not for the aggrandizement of private businesses.

As a rule, I endorse the acquisition of land to be set aside as wilderness areas and similar public lands, but I think those acquisitions should be at fair market value and only if the private owners wish to sell. I don't think eminent domain should be used to obtain the land. If the public really wants to add the land to public holdings, the public should offer a good price.

Eric1975 · #9 Jan 25, '05, 2:25 pm

I am a layperson and always hope to be as I do not having a calling to a vocation and after having returned back to the Church after a very wild and regretable past in my late teenage years and early 20's (I am 29 now), I was unfortunately scared away from ever having a vocation by many laypeople who kept saying that 'you will be a good priest,' or 'you would make a good priest.' Monastic life is the same way and I do not believe is for me. I know that many people, including good priests have said that it was people making statements like that that led them to the priesthood. Quite the contrary for me as I have always loved kids and have always wanted to be married but unfortunately, there is no work or employment as of yet for a 29 year old art student taking lessons by mail rather than a studio classroom or what have you. I am more or less an extremely isolated person living in a small rural town with his senior citizen parents that would love to do great work for the Church, but where I live is a bit of a problem. Man, if only the Peoria or Springfield diocese would build a Church in our backyard. There is a small lot of farmland in our backyard that could be used in that way, unfortunately we are having rather serious problems with vocations and I can assure anyone in the Magisterium that culture, indeed, has a role to play in this, and unfortunately most younger single guys like myself are not interested in devoting my life in a way that I can never have the grace of feminine companionship and I do realize why there is not a possibility of having married priests I suppose and will always agree with the decisions of the Magisterium who does and will always have the last word from my perspective. I can remember a priest in Decatur Illinois giving a homily about the possibility of a married priesthood and for some reason I cried and became very despondent in regard to that parish and so went back to the one I was baptized in, so, I would certainly advise anyone not to ask me about vocations because it just will not be happening here. Now I should get to the point that I am writing about. As to whether animals themselves have souls or not, I could not say as I do not have any objective proof of it. I can say that my parents and I have had two little guinea pigs that have been the most loving and hilariously wonderful gifts that we have had as pets, not to mention a cat that lived with us for 16 years. As to whether or not they have an eternity with us, I would have to say a great big YES THEY DO in that regard. An exgirlfriend of mine had a little kitten that had died and I can remember praying with the intention of asking about our afterlife and whether or not we do get some of our favorite critter companions back or not. I visited the Marian Center of Springfield, Illinois where I have found many books written by Catholic Answers and many great and outstanding apologists, theologians, and clergy. I have always had a modestly curious and passionate love for saints writings about the holy angels and have written some poems of mine own that after having prayed the Holy Rosary and writing them, rather astonished me as I just didn't think I had any talent for it. Anyway, I found a book about angels that was quite orthodox and in keeping with the wonderous art forms that exist in our Holy Faith throughout the centuries. In it, there actually was a photo of a kitten that looked EXACTLY like the kitten that my exgirlfriend had which I found pleasantly coincidental. I personally do not care what anyone says and am somewhat annoyed when I have read books by Ted Flynn which made reference to a rather notorious spiritualist in Blavatsky that 'talked to animals,' as if that is somehow something that is bad, or demonically inspired which is absolutely absurd. As for the taking of life of insects and such, I can say that people should be legislatively prosecuted for swatting a bee or a fly, however some people are just the kind of people that just don't unnecessarily destroy any kind of animal, but do reasonably understand their usefulness for food and clothing. Personally, I believe the animals and their angels consider it a heartwarming honor to assist in the life of the wonderful creatures that are the crowning achievement and the entire reason why earth and matter itself was created. Hope this helps anyone. Thanks and may Our Eternal Father, through the Sacrifice of His Son always Present in the Holy Mass, and through the gifts and fruits of the Holy Spirit, bless all abundantly who may read this, in Nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen.

qmvsimp · #10 Jan 25, '05, 3:34 pm

I would be curious to know the abortion stand of these animal rights people. The unborn child can feel pain as early as the beginning of the second trimester and some evidence exists for the first trimester.

Are they as concerned with the unborn's pain as they are about animals' pain? If not, then we have hypocrisy in order here.

**Shoshana** · #11 Jan 25, '05, 3:44 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by qmvsimp

I would be curious to know the abortion stand of these animal rights people. The unborn child can feel pain as early as the beginning of the second trimester and some evidence exists for the first trimester.

Are they as concerned with the unborn's pain as they are about animals' pain? If not, then we have hypocrisy in order here.

[PHP][/PHP]

neophyte · #12 Jan 25, '05, 4:55 pm

Karl,

I asked my dog what he though about this, and he said

"WOOF! WOOFWOOFWOOF HOOOOWWWWWWWLLLL!! WOOF WOOF sniffsnuffle snortsniff.

WOOF!"

I'm not sure whether it was an editorial comment or a request for me to stop stalling and feed him, but I guess if he has rights like these people claim then he can also figure out how to apply for copyright protection.

In the meantime, he's staying crated at night, he goes on a diet when I say so, and he's going to know what a choke collar is.

God bless, and keep up the good work.

**Karl Keating** · #13 Jan 25, '05, 5:45 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by akaiser

Isn't sad that there are people out there that think more of their dogs then they do the children of this world.

We also have a german short hair pointer. Do they ever settle down!! Our dog is named Fleck with is german for Spot.

From what I can gather, many shorthaired pointers never do settle down. Our vet said that ours is the first one he's seen that will remain on the examination table without being restrained by the vet's assistant.

Maybe Pochi is an exceptional case. Except when he is around big animals such as cattle, he does tend to be quite--for the first few months we had him, we weren't even sure if he could bark. (No, he hadn't been mistreated by his prior owners. He just turned out to be something of an introvert.)

4 marks · #14 Jan 25, '05, 6:00 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by qmvsimp

I would be curious to know the abortion stand of these animal rights people. The unborn child can feel pain as early as the beginning of the second trimester and some evidence exists for the first trimester.

Are they as concerned with the unborn's pain as they are about animals' pain? If not, then we have hypocrisy in order here.

Interesting thought. You never hear of vocal advocates for pet abortions...only human abortions.

Jay74 · #15 Jan 25, '05, 6:30 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by qmvsimp

I would be curious to know the abortion stand of these animal rights people. The unborn child can feel pain as early as the beginning of the second trimester and some evidence exists for the first trimester.

Are they as concerned with the unborn's pain as they are about animals' pain? If not, then we have hypocrisy in order here.

I can't speak universally, obviously, since there are many individual exceptions and many wonderful people supporting animal rights. Typically, though, most animal rights supporters are pro-choice.

A survey was done of PETA members some years ago, and found most of them to support abortion "rights". It is not universal, but largely true.

Great letter, Karl. I hope you haven't received too much hate mail, especially since your words are both accurate and good.

Blessings.