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  #1  
Old Jun 23, '09, 5:54 pm
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fermat fermat is offline
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Default Maritial relations and mortal sin

My wife and I practice NFP and are on the ‘trying to avoid’ side. (We have five.) We have been doing NFP long enough to know when she is fertile. The other night was one of those nights and we were lying in bed after the kids were down and started to cuddle. The cuddling got pretty active and one thing led to another and I ‘went off’ (as we like to put it).

I wasn’t trying to make it happen, but I didn’t really try and stop it either. I am familiar with Onanism and I am not sure if this situation qualifies. I know Onanism is wrong, so if what happened was that, then I would be in a state of mortal sin. But I don't know if it is Onanism if it happens in the context of a husband and wife showing affection. In the end the goal was not for me to do that outside of my wife so we could avoid a pregnancy, but I am not sure if that is just semantics. From a practical standpoint, that is what happened. I am going to try to make it confession this weekend in any case, but I wanted some feed back in any case.

Peace!

Fermat
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  #2  
Old Jun 23, '09, 6:07 pm
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Mary Gail 36 Mary Gail 36 is offline
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Default Re: Maritial relations and mortal sin

http://www.marysremnant.org/News/Arc...Sexuality.html

Here is a link to a great article on the matter.
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  #3  
Old Jun 23, '09, 6:18 pm
whatevergirl whatevergirl is offline
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Default Re: Maritial relations and mortal sin

Mary, I knew the 'basics' of what's in that link, but the details? Wow, I appreciate you posting that, very helpful information to know.
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  #4  
Old Jun 23, '09, 7:02 pm
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GRATEFULONEjim GRATEFULONEjim is offline
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Default Re: Maritial relations and mortal sin

[quote=fermat;5362622]My wife and I practice NFP and are on the ‘trying to avoid’ side. (We have five.) We have been doing NFP long enough to know when she is fertile. The other night was one of those nights and we were lying in bed after the kids were down and started to cuddle. The cuddling got pretty active and one thing led to another and I ‘went off’ (as we like to put it).

I wasn’t trying to make it happen, but I didn’t really try and stop it either. I am familiar with Onanism and I am not sure if this situation qualifies. I know Onanism is wrong, so if what happened was that, then I would be in a state of mortal sin. But I don't know if it is Onanism if it happens in the context of a husband and wife showing affection. In the end the goal was not for me to do that outside of my wife so we could avoid a pregnancy, but I am not sure if that is just semantics. From a practical standpoint, that is what happened. I am going to try to make it confession this weekend in any case, but I wanted some feed back in any case.

Peace!


Yep,
Been there. Go to confession. My wife and I are just beginning NFP and there have been some miscues. God is understanding. Remember, that reconciliation is there for us when we stumble.
Keep the Faith,
G1j
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  #5  
Old Jun 23, '09, 8:17 pm
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Default Yes, you need to go to confession.

All forms of masturbation are inherently, mortally sinful, even within the context of marriage.

See this article:

http://www.catholicplanet.com/CCSE/marriage-sins.htm

Yes, you need to go to confession. Today.
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  #6  
Old Jun 23, '09, 10:36 pm
shannyk shannyk is offline
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Default Re: Maritial relations and mortal sin

Quote:
I wasn’t trying to make it happen, but I didn’t really try and stop it either.
You just answered your own question, very honestly. (but you knew that, right?)

"for what I have done and for what I have failed to do"


You're no 20 yr old, you have been there done that, you know your limits and pushed them, or better yet, let them push you.

I firmly
resolve, with the help of Thy grace, to sin no more and to avoid the near
occasions of sin.


Get to confession my friend,God is so understanding! and treat your wife, your marriage and yourself better form now on.
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  #7  
Old Jun 23, '09, 11:22 pm
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fermat fermat is offline
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Default Re: Maritial relations and mortal sin

Thanks for all the words folks. I was pretty sure what the answer was, but it is always nice to have your brothers and sister give you a little kick when you need it.

God bless you all!
Fermat
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  #8  
Old Jun 24, '09, 5:28 am
TLM08 TLM08 is offline
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Default Re: Maritial relations and mortal sin

Quote:
Originally Posted by fermat View Post
My wife and I practice NFP and are on the ‘trying to avoid’ side. (We have five.) We have been doing NFP long enough to know when she is fertile. The other night was one of those nights and we were lying in bed after the kids were down and started to cuddle. The cuddling got pretty active and one thing led to another and I ‘went off’ (as we like to put it).

I wasn’t trying to make it happen, but I didn’t really try and stop it either. I am familiar with Onanism and I am not sure if this situation qualifies. I know Onanism is wrong, so if what happened was that, then I would be in a state of mortal sin. But I don't know if it is Onanism if it happens in the context of a husband and wife showing affection. In the end the goal was not for me to do that outside of my wife so we could avoid a pregnancy, but I am not sure if that is just semantics. From a practical standpoint, that is what happened. I am going to try to make it confession this weekend in any case, but I wanted some feed back in any case.

Peace!

Fermat

Onan's crime was not simply "sperm wasting". He was a scoundrel taking the sex under deceptive circumstances with no intention of carrying on his brother's name with his widowed sister in law.

I truly don't see any difference between NFP and condoms. The goal of both is to have sex without the risk of pregnancy.
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  #9  
Old Jun 24, '09, 7:06 am
Seatuck Seatuck is offline
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Default Re: Maritial relations and mortal sin

Quote:
Originally Posted by TLM08 View Post
Onan's crime was not simply "sperm wasting". He was a scoundrel taking the sex under deceptive circumstances with no intention of carrying on his brother's name with his widowed sister in law.

I truly don't see any difference between NFP and condoms. The goal of both is to have sex without the risk of pregnancy.
Doesn't matter what the goal is. The act is what matter. One act is open to the procreative and unitive aspects and the other is not. Condomistic sex is neither procreative nor unitive. There is no one flesh union. There is nothing inherently immoral about spacing or preventing conception. It is intrinsically evil to prevent the conception by blocking one of the aspects of the union of man and wife in the marital act. You need to study Theology of the Body.
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  #10  
Old Jun 24, '09, 7:18 am
shannyk shannyk is offline
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Default Re: Maritial relations and mortal sin

Quote:
Originally Posted by TLM08 View Post
Onan's crime was not simply "sperm wasting". He was a scoundrel taking the sex under deceptive circumstances with no intention of carrying on his brother's name with his widowed sister in law.

I truly don't see any difference between NFP and condoms. The goal of both is to have sex without the risk of pregnancy.
Big difference, and this is not theological at all but my personal woman's perspective.

If my husband wants to shield himself from me, not interested.

If my husband and I have decided as a couple we need to postpone pregnancy and he's not willing to work with me and chart with me and wait until we can have unaltered relations, not interested.

See, one approach is interactive and interested in a bigger picture whole the other is a quick fix. One is about what I want now and one is about what we see in our future and discerning what God has in mind for us. One keep in mind our family and one is just about us, now. One is about keeping parts of ourselves from each other, the other is about being together even more intimately. One is about there here and now, the other is about the ever after. One is about putting God first and your spouse first and one is about indulgence. One is consistent with God's plan for us as a couple and one isn't.

And as a woman, one is a complete turn off and one is an endearing respect building experience. It's a no brainer really.

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  #11  
Old Jun 24, '09, 7:44 am
Rico S Rico S is offline
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Default Re: Maritial relations and mortal sin

OP:

Sounds like it was an accident, so I don't think you have anything to confess.



Seatuck:


Since this thread is already getting derailed...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seatuck View Post
Condomistic sex is neither procreative nor unitive. There is no one flesh union.
If the act of "condomistic" sex is objectively wrong, how are perforated condoms deemed a licit way of collecting sperm samples for fertility testing?
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  #12  
Old Jun 24, '09, 7:47 am
StratusRose StratusRose is offline
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Default Re: Maritial relations and mortal sin

Quote:
Originally Posted by TLM08 View Post
Onan's crime was not simply "sperm wasting". He was a scoundrel taking the sex under deceptive circumstances with no intention of carrying on his brother's name with his widowed sister in law.

I truly don't see any difference between NFP and condoms. The goal of both is to have sex without the risk of pregnancy.
God made the female cycle to be fertile only 1/3 of the time...at best. Using the non-fertile times to make love is not sinful, both unitive and procreative aspects are still intact and respected.
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  #13  
Old Jun 24, '09, 10:22 am
Seatuck Seatuck is offline
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Default Re: Maritial relations and mortal sin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico S View Post
OP:

Sounds like it was an accident, so I don't think you have anything to confess.



Seatuck:


Since this thread is already getting derailed...



If the act of "condomistic" sex is objectively wrong, how are perforated condoms deemed a licit way of collecting sperm samples for fertility testing?
I've never read an explanation for it myself.Maybe someone can provide one. I guess it's under the "medical provision"(my words not the churches) like for when hormonal preparations such as birth control pills are used to treat an illness. Probably falls under principal of double effect in a some way.The intent is for medical diagnosis and is not going to be used outside the confines of this medical treatment.The intent is not contraceptive. Remember the perforations allow for the transmission of the husbands body in the form of his fluids to meet with his wife's body and be absorbed by her - a component of the one flesh union. Just as we absorb communion into our bodies and become one with Christ.Marriage is a reflection of Christs relationship with the church - that whole bride/bridegroom thing we see in scripture. The marital act is also a reflection and is especially seen in relation to the Eucharist as well as the relationship within the Trinity itself which is all giving and perpetually fruitful in intent. Theology of the Body.
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  #14  
Old Jun 24, '09, 12:49 pm
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Default Re: Maritial relations and mortal sin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico S View Post
If the act of "condomistic" sex is objectively wrong, how are perforated condoms deemed a licit way of collecting sperm samples for fertility testing?

I'm not Seatuck, but I think I have an explanation. Condomistic sex (buying a pack of Trojans or what-have-you) is different from perforated condom sex in its intent and its goal. The 1st (Trojans) is simply sex for pleasure with the intention of avoiding pregnancy. The 2nd (perforated) is sex for procreation w/ a little extra help at getting pregnant (either this time or in the future). The 2nd example has absolutely *nothing* to do with shielding a portion of one spouse from the other. Instead it is an assistance for the God-given purpose of sex - procreation.

The perforated condom use for fertility reasons is a bit problematic b/c of this type of comparison. However, when one actually looks at the intention and goal of the act - one can see that in essence it is good. If a pregnancy results, there is no way of telling whether it resulted from the perforated act or the semi-artificial act (not truly invitro, but assisted reproduction).
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  #15  
Old Jun 24, '09, 1:12 pm
jwashu jwashu is offline
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Default Re: Maritial relations and mortal sin

If you were intending for it to happen and did not set out to keep from getting pregnant, it's not a mortal sin... I doubt if it's any sin at all. If you think I'm wrong use the "Ask an Apologist" section.

Joe
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